Swedish Socialism doesn't achieve enough. I've been reading up a lot on Latin American Far Left Socialism/Nationalism and align myself with that more. Most european "socialist" countries still follow the neo-liberal model of american unilateralism. They still support IMF and World Bank.

Ya, the systems Latin American countries have come up with work sooooooo well.

Pretty much all of those Latin American countries are shitholes, lol.

[QUOTE=iamtherobots;17443900]Ya, the systems Latin American countries have come up with work sooooooo well.[/QUOTE]
Not many of the said groups have taken power. EZLN has had a strong hold in a mexican state the past 15 or so years. They've been fighting for indigenous rights and autonomy. The main reason why Cuba suffers the way it does is because of the embargo that cripples the economy. Despite that, they still manage to feed their citizens and have very good health care and education systems. Venezuela has implented anti-neo liberal reforms and the countries poverty, illiteracy, and hunger has gone tremendously down. Hugo Chavez has become the face of anti-imperialism and independence from American intervention/unilateralism. Evo Morales has managed to et elected as the first indigenous president in the first fair election of Bolivia. The lives of the poor and indigenous are getting a lot better there too. Brazil, whose president has come from the leftist labor movement, has one of the fastest growing economies in the world (growing faster than the U.S.).

The reason why Latin America has so many problems is because of the U.S. and the neo-liberal policies it pursues. The U.S. meddled in Latin America all of the 20th century installing Military Dictatorships that would perform mass executions of indigenous people, students, and workers. These dictatorships would also let foreign corporations come in, strip the peasants of their land, and privatize everything such as water. They would also sink the countries in large amounts of debt by borrowing from the IMF and World Bank. The U.S. backed these regimes with the upmost brutality leading to several bloody civil wars. But, for the past 20 years there have been massive leftist popular movements that got rid of these regimes or have been working for autonomy. The people of Latin America reject Capitalism. They want Socialism because Socialism sets them free from the chains of U.S./Euro economic dominance.

I wouldn't really call European countries socialism.

[QUOTE=cbmartinez;17442376]yo anyone watch true blood? was hatin for a bit but I watched three eps from season 2 last night, show is awesome[/QUOTE]

Saw the first few episodes from season one and thought they were terrible. I might give a few episodes of season 2 a shot so see if the show isn't awful anymore.

[QUOTE=cobert;17444435]I wouldn't really call European countries socialism.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't either but it most of the centre left parties had socialist origins which they have seemed to abandoned.

[QUOTE=flesh;17444289]Not many of the said groups have taken power. EZLN has had a strong hold in a mexican state the past 15 or so years. They've been fighting for indigenous rights and autonomy. The main reason why Cuba suffers the way it does is because of the embargo that cripples the economy. Despite that, they still manage to feed their citizens and have very good health care and education systems. Venezuela has implented anti-neo liberal reforms and the countries poverty, illiteracy, and hunger has gone tremendously down. Hugo Chavez has become the face of anti-imperialism and independence from American intervention/unilateralism. Evo Morales has managed to et elected as the first indigenous president in the first fair election of Bolivia. The lives of the poor and indigenous are getting a lot better there too. Brazil, whose president has come from the leftist labor movement, has one of the fastest growing economies in the world (growing faster than the U.S.).

The reason why Latin America has so many problems is because of the U.S. and the neo-liberal policies it pursues. The U.S. meddled in Latin America all of the 20th century installing Military Dictatorships that would perform mass executions of indigenous people, students, and workers. These dictatorships would also let foreign corporations come in, strip the peasants of their land, and privatize everything such as water. They would also sink the countries in large amounts of debt by borrowing from the IMF and World Bank. The U.S. backed these regimes with the upmost brutality leading to several bloody civil wars. But, for the past 20 years there have been massive leftist popular movements that got rid of these regimes or have been working for autonomy. The people of Latin America reject Capitalism. They want Socialism because Socialism sets them free from the chains of U.S./Euro economic dominance.[/QUOTE]

You're really misinformed.

Oh and utmost.

aside from the bias that comes from reading the zapatista/other indigenous leftist propaganda i would imagine he's reading, his facts are pretty in line with reality.

yeah, a reality fabricated by bean eating indian savages

uh no.

havent you read the bible dude?

obv not

okay, im actually not trolling for once right now

why the hell would an obama campaign delegate claim to be a physician at a town hall meeting... when she isnt?

doesnt this type of stuff worry you guys about the incumbent party? like yeah, libertarians are paranoid blah blah blah, but why all the deceit from these people if theyre looking for our best interests?

I don't support democrats but I think we should do everything possible to secure a public option for health care. I don't think that a public option is enough. I would like to get rid of private insurance and just have a single payer system.

[QUOTE=cobert;17444439]Saw the first few episodes from season one and thought they were terrible. I might give a few episodes of season 2 a shot so see if the show isn't awful anymore.[/QUOTE]

From what I saw it was just Dawson's Creek with vampires.

[QUOTE=flesh;17445366]I don't support democrats but I think we should do everything possible to secure a public option for health care. I don't think that a public option is enough. I would like to get rid of private insurance and just have a single payer system.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't it be better to just make more regulations in regards to those who can't afford health insurance and stick to the current system that already works, rather than start a new system that's bound to collapse on itself just because of a few small issues?

You are aware that, regardless of being a private industry, the American health care system is superior to many of the socialized healthcare systems of nations you mentioned as bastions of Social liberties, right?

edit:

I mean, why cut out the element of competition when you can just modify the rules and make them more fair. If everyone won in soccer, then players wouldn't train so hard, and the overall caliber of the sport would decrease.

thread needs to listen to born against.

Thread needs to listen to Celeste morelike. Nihiliste(s) is seriously ****ing epic.

dream on.

[QUOTE=iamtherobots;17445427]Wouldn't it be better to just make more regulations in regards to those who can't afford health insurance and stick to the current system that already works, rather than start a new system that's bound to collapse on itself just because of a few small issues?

You are aware that, regardless of being a private industry, the American health care system is superior to many of the socialized healthcare systems of nations you mentioned as bastions of Social liberties, right?

edit:

I mean, why cut out the element of competition when you can just modify the rules and make them more fair. If everyone won in soccer, then players wouldn't train so hard, and the overall caliber of the sport would decrease.[/QUOTE]
We're dealing with people's lives not a soccer game. I don't trust the market to take care of people. A lot of people with health insurance still get ****ed over. Thats not fair. The point of those companies is to make money not to take care of you. Everyone deserves the same healthcare. Theres a lot of things wrong with our system and it isn't the best in the world at all. The current system is collapsing.

This thread gets all political way too often. What happend to good old emo talkin'?

[QUOTE=flesh;17445447]We're dealing with people's lives not a soccer game.[/quote]
I'm glad you got my point. :rolleyes:

[quote]I don't trust the market to take care of people.[/quote]
More often than not doctors work very hard to help patients. It's not just for the money, though it is a motivating factor. Incentive to work harder, especially when people's lives are at question is a positive, I don't get how you could see it otherwise.

And lol, I'd definitely trust doctors over a corrupt government run by lawyers who run Double Dutch Rudders with our extremely corrupt banking system.

[quote]A lot of people with health insurance still get ****ed over. Thats not fair.[/quote]
That's why I'm talking about regulation, as opposed to just Socializing everything. The system the Obama administration is working on is not long term. It's just an easy way out.

[quote]The point of those companies is to make money not to take care of you.
Everyone deserves the same healthcare. [/quote]
Well yeah, but if people were to follow Huckabee's system that he worked out in Massachutesettes You know, subsidize those without healthcare who can't afford it, with credits for healthcare exclusively. It helps those in need, AND it stimulates the economy, thus increasing the well being of everyone in the nation.

IDK if you got the memo, but not everybody who's wealthy is a scumbag, and there's a lot of wealthy people who want to help others.

[quote]Theres a lot of things wrong with our system and it isn't the best in the world at all.[/quote]
I never said there weren't things wrong with our system. Nor did I say it's the best in the world. I said it's better than a lot of the places you mentioned.

[quote]The current system is collapsing.[/QUOTE]
If we were to modify it to fit the current issues of our society, it would more than likely flourish.

I'm gonna go camping, but Jesus Christ kiddo, learn to be less assumptive about everybody who has different views than you.

Mixing private business and public service is always a bad idea. School systems, for example.
Privatize all health care.

crush teh fashest stait.

[QUOTE=RetiredAt21;17445484]This thread gets all political way too often. What happend to good old emo talkin'?[/QUOTE]

Anybody dig Mohinder?

mohinder is ****ing awesome. i love them so much.

Cool, I grabbed the discography a while ago. It's all pretty good.

Mohinder are really good.

I realize my dislike for modern emo every time I look at a live picture of Comadre.

What's wrong with Comadre?