[QUOTE=In Chains 36]No, they did change. And btw, grunge just denotes location and a general blues style; not really that specific.[/QUOTE]


What I meant was that change isn't a big factor in Grunge, and that transitions from one style to another arn't usually sucesfull.

[QUOTE=kombucha mushroom mofo]Not a big fan of Drop F, eh? :lol:[/QUOTE]

Nah, it's sweet for Meshuggah's use, but just wouldn't fit with much else, Tool being a prime example. Adam is able to write great heavy (heavy enough, at least) riffs with Drop-D.

I don't believe AiC were Grunge.

---

Tool said they were influenced by Fantomas and Meshuggah because "they're heavy and intelligent". So hopefully that doesn't mean they're as repetitive as Meshuggah.

[QUOTE=kombucha mushroom mofo]:
I decided to put on Jimmy and find out why I don't really like it. So far, I liked the intro riff, until the bass enters. Chancellor's tone sounds a little too much like Fieldy's bass does. :confused:
[/QUOTE]

I'm listening to Jimmy now and i don't seem to hear any similarities to Fieldy.
i like this song, really like the part where he sings "Under a dead ohio sky" and that faint singing part. to me this song feels like one of tools heavier songs. IMO. also, i think the bass has a rhythmic heavy tone to it, and that songs pretty fun and skillful to play.

^^^ Yeah, that's a great song in my opinion.

whats sad about Tool also is that most people don't hear the bass, they mostly hear guitar and can mix them up like the beginning of pu****. being a bass player, justins riff's are pretty hard to get the sound he gets, his stuffs really rhythmical and calmish, while Pauls stuff sounded more grundgier. imagine how Tool would've sounded if Paul hadn't left?

OMGzz you bash push!t...!!!

That has the best tool moment in it... The line 'If you say i may dafe like a sigh if I stay, you minimise my movements anyway...' Up untill just after the 'remember i will always love you...' line :)

The bit in reflection, described by JoZ is also very cool...

And the third eye part too 'so glad to see you'

There are so many...

jimmy is the only Tool song I describe as dark. Very depressing.

But it's also very exciting. It's got my favourite scream (rrrrrrrrrrrrHAAAAAHHH!!!!) of any band.

The only Tool songs that don't reach a level of euphoria for me are H. and Flood.

H.; is frickin hardcore when he goes "I DON'T MIIIIIIND!!!" but that's the only good part. Much too radio-friendly for me.

Flood: Fricking hell I love the start to this song. Second best part on Undertow (next to the intro to Crawl Away), but the rest is pretty lame.

[QUOTE=clearvision]OMGzz you bash push!t...!!!

That has the best tool moment in it... The line 'If you say i may dafe like a sigh if I stay, you minimise my movements anyway...' Up untill just after the 'remember i will always love you...' line :)

The bit in reflection, described by JoZ is also very cool...

And the third eye part too 'so glad to see you'

There are so many...[/QUOTE]


I was waiting for you to back me up on Pu**** :p

[QUOTE=Werny]jimmy is the only Tool song I describe as dark. Very depressing.

But it's also very exciting. It's got my favourite scream (rrrrrrrrrrrrHAAAAAHHH!!!!) of any band.

The only Tool songs that don't reach a level of euphoria for me are H. and Flood.

H.; is frickin hardcore when he goes "I DON'T MIIIIIIND!!!" but that's the only good part. Much too radio-friendly for me.

Flood: Fricking hell I love the start to this song. Second best part on Undertow (next to the intro to Crawl Away), but the rest is pretty lame.[/QUOTE]

H is one of my Tool favorites.
it's just wonderfull lyrics, and MJK's clean vocals are so beautyfull.
but that's my opinion.

we don't seem to share many similairites as far as music goes, you find meshhuggah boring anf repetitive, and it's one of my favortite bands.

what songs have you heard by them, that you find boring?
I could send you a song to prove the oppsite if you want.

Is it me or does Prison Sex creep you guys out sometimes?

Prison Sex is a great song. Try to listen to it metaphorically and maybe then your tolerance of it will rise.

prison sex is awsome, maynard was one of the best writers and definatly one of the best singers ever imo

was? he still is...

new audioslave song rock0rz

It is pretty good.

[QUOTE=Unstable Mind]Is it me or does Prison Sex creep you guys out sometimes?[/QUOTE]
Well the lyrics are deftintly odd, But the ending is great where Maynard says "You look so precious..".

Easily the greatest part of any song ever is during H. "And when the walls come down, and theres a lookin your..." until the I don't mind part.

Ive recently have gotten into the song H, For some reason. I started to listen to Aenema more now, Then Lateralus or Undertow.

[QUOTE=Street Spirit (Fade Out)]Easily the greatest part of any song ever is during H. "And when the walls come down, and theres a lookin your..." until the I don't mind part.[/QUOTE]

That's definately one of my favorites.

Tool are just amazing!

I'm actually sitting here listening to jerkoff, and wearing a tool t-shirt, so i guess i could say i was a fan :p

IMO the best scream in a tool song is in "the grudge" like seven minutes in. I think it's edited cuz it lasts for 20+ seconds, but it's still really cool

And "prison sex" is really creepy, but Danny Carey said "It will annoy a lot of people ... which is half the fun."

I don't really like "H." too much, but its still ok. I really like "46 & 2" though.

I thought the scream in the Grudge was 100% natural. People say he does it live, so... Either way it's an awesome part in a great song.

Yeah, great scream, that one alone got my one friend into Tool.

I decided to show that song to my history class as the "creative" part of a project I had to do, and the whole class (made up of mainly radio-listening teeny-boppers) was in awe after the song finished.

Really? That's awesome...I wish I could do a project like that at my school...I did include some of Maynard's lyrics for a poetry anthology....loving your avatar Kage.

Could we give the whole Meshuggah thing at least a little bit of a rest? I mean, we know that they're now an influence on the new disc so lets move on. There's going to be a heck of a lot more in this album than Meshuggah's influnce, just because we dont exactly what doesnt mean we have to beat this into the ground.

[QUOTE=Otherside]Prison Sex is a great song. Try to listen to it metaphorically and maybe then your tolerance of it will rise.[/QUOTE]

I think that the metaphor is a little too deliberate. But the song is very entertaining. Stinkfist is another one that has a rather deliberate metaphor, but the lyrics are so much better.

[QUOTE=Werny]I don't believe AiC were Grunge.

---

Tool said they were influenced by Fantomas and Meshuggah because "they're heavy and intelligent". So hopefully that doesn't mean they're as repetitive as Meshuggah.[/QUOTE]


I've said this before, Grunge just denotes location and new age blues rock. I agree that AiC, Soundgarden, and Nirvana are all very different from one another.

AiC was the darkest, Soundgarden had the bluesiest lyrics but were the most technical, and Nirvana was solid but was the weak link IMO.

/off topic

[QUOTE=PageCobain]Really? That's awesome...I wish I could do a project like that at my school...I did include some of Maynard's lyrics for a poetry anthology....loving your avatar Kage.[/QUOTE]

It was a rare treat to be able to do something like that, and sadly it was only one small part of the project (it somehow related to the subject, I forget how :naughty: )

[QUOTE=Maynard's Dick]Could we give the whole Meshuggah thing at least a little bit of a rest? I mean, we know that they're now an influence on the new disc so lets move on. There's going to be a heck of a lot more in this album than Meshuggah's influnce, just because we dont exactly what doesnt mean we have to beat this into the ground.[/QUOTE]

123.

Sh!t, that reminds me. IPT!

[QUOTE=madeyadams]Stinkfist has amazing lyrics. The first time I listened to it I was really grossed out, haha. But then I started listening to it more and they were really powerful lyrics.

Also to address the prison sex idea: Isn't that song about child abuse?[/QUOTE]

Yea, that's the metaphor. I don't know, I just think that Tool should've come up with some line better than "sh!t, blood, and cvm on my hand".

Tool's edginess is part of what makes them great. They don't need to make anything softer or more mainstream.

[QUOTE=Otherside]Tool's edginess is part of what makes them great. They don't need to make anything softer or more mainstream.[/QUOTE]

Who said softer or mainstream? How about "intelligent"?
For example, Stinkfist had the shock value title, that's fine. But the lyrics were so much more intelligent than Prison Sex.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]Really? I think it puts emphasis on the meaning of the song.. what don't you like about it?[/QUOTE]

I think that the line was too "in your face" for a song that should have been more metaphorical. Abuse is a serious thing, there's no need to be graphic. In fact, you can be edgy and more intelligent at the same time. But of course that's just my ignorant opinion. :lol:

[QUOTE=In Chains 36]Who said softer or mainstream? How about "intelligent"?
For example, Stinkfist had the shock value title, that's fine. But the lyrics were so much more intelligent than Prison Sex.[/QUOTE]


Harsh language does not equal stupidity. Any word in the English language are words of expression, if they choose those words to express themsevles, that does not make them more or less intelligent.

[QUOTE=Otherside]Harsh language does not equal stupidity. Any word in the English language are words of expression, if they choose those words to express themsevles, that does not make them more or less intelligent.[/QUOTE]

I never said it was "stupid", but sometimes when you're too deliberate, it makes you look less intelligent.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]Well maybe they were just trying to be straight-forward.. instead of "cryptic." I think blatency can be nice sometimes, just because it really tells you a lot about the meaning of a song.[/QUOTE]


Case in point: Hooker with a *****.

[QUOTE=madeyadams]Well maybe they were just trying to be straight-forward.. instead of "cryptic." I think blatency can be nice sometimes, just because it really tells you a lot about the meaning of a song.[/QUOTE]

You're right; they were. I just don't like that style. To each their own, I guess. I like cryptic.

If you guys remeber correctly, a while ago I posted something about the alternate tracklisting on Lateralus. Recently I've been e-mailing back and forth this guy who is also a large Maynard/Tool fan.. anyways I showed him the very same article I posted here and 2 days later I got this reply..It is kinda long but its worth the read.

"whoever wrote this was on crack, i believe. i've
analyzed his 'math' myself, and he doesn't make sense.

the fibonacci sequence creates a parabola, not a
spiral.

his new sequence has nothing to do with a fibonacci
sequence, instead the consecutive numbers equal 13,
that's all.

his deciding that consecutive tracks should equal 13
only stems from tracks 6 and 7, being already
consecutive, equalling 13. his 'friend' saying that
thirteen being in the middle was right, but only
because 6 and 7 are in the middle of the album, if you
look at the track listening this way, as i just wrote
now on a piece of paper.

1 2 3 (4 5) (6 7) 8 9 (10 11 12) 13
becomes
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

both in the video and on the cd, tracks 4 and 5 are
deliberately consecutive, reducing them to one track.
same with 6 and 7, and then it's written on the tool
page or toolshed that 10 11 and 12 were going to be
one track instead of three. this is indicated by the
connecting circuit on the back of the album cover.
with this now in mind, there are only 9 tracks, with 6
and 7 being in the middle, the new track # 5. make
sense so far? if 13 is supposed to be in the middle
of any track listing, 6 and 7 work perfectly, adding
to 13 and being in the middle of the new reduced track
listing.

lateralu(i)s is the title track, and also the first
and only time the fibonacci sequence is used in any
song. being that it plays such a role in the song,
and the song itself is about expanding your
consciousness, it seems an excellent opening track.
like what you'd read as a prologue, a brief
explanation of what's to come. the fibonacci sequence
is of course 1 1 2 3 5 8 13, and so on. each number
is the sum of the two previous. now, if we apply it
to our new track listing, we get Lateralis as our
first 1 (we already said that's first), then 1, 2, 3,
5 or (6 and 7 on the original track list), 8 (or 10 11
and 12 on the original track list) and then 13. but
wait, there is no 13th track on our new list. however
there are only 3 tracks left, and 2 of them add up to
13. the fibonacci code again states that the two
previous numbers add to 13, and not only do 5 and 8
equal 13, but so do 4 and 9. so since we can't
actually put the last number in the sequence as 13, we
can put the two track numbers that total it. there's
no 6 (or track 8) in this fibonacci sequence, nor is
there any way to include it in the new sequence, so
we'll leave it out, and explain why later. put it
after your new track list if you want, for you might
want to listen to it later anyway.

now this new track listing tells a story, the
development of one's self. lateralu(i)s is first,
being born, growing, then reaching out, finding
divinity. the first step in finding divinity is to
lose your anger, grudges towards others, next in the
sequence, track 1. let go of those grudges, then
breathe, relax with eon blue, track 2, and time to
move on. most would say to themselves at this point,
letting go of grudges is pretty tough, and asking for
a lot, so will i get something out of it? the patient
, track 3 and next in the sequence, asks and answers
that question in itself. is this a test? it has to
be. ... i'm still right here, giving blood (taking
others' anger), keeping faith (in your advice to not
hold grudges)... and if there were no rewards to
reap (reward being divinity, what the song lateralus
tells you to look for when you're reaching out), no
loving embrace (the embrace of those other patient
ones) to see me through this tedious path i've chosen
here (hard to hold back anger, isn't it?), i certainly
would have walked away by now. basically, you've
chosen to not hold grudges, a difficult task for most,
but if you're patient and wait it out, you'll be
rewarded, and the others who are doing the same will
help you along the way. ok, now you've got a plan for
your physical and emotional life, and a basic reason.
ok, don't hold grudges, now what? parabol(a), 4th in
the sequence, tracks 6 and 7 of the original list, is
that actual new path in life. first off, a parabola
is an accelerating curve upwards, drawn easily with
fibonacci's sequence. if you consider the development
of everything relating to man, including man himself
(religion or spirituality, medical technology,
scientific acchievement, basic overall quality of
life, intelligence, lifespan, you name it), it's
improved at a parabolic rate. notice the opening
lyrics, "so familiar and overwhelmingly warm, this one
this form i hold now, embracing you, this reality
here." the word embrace was used in the previous song
in this new sequence, "... no loving embrace to see me
through." not only will they embrace you, but you're
embracing yourself, your flesh embraces your spirit.
others will embrace your spirit with both their flesh
and spirit, and not always both. now, "choosing to be
here right now, hold on, stay inside this body, this
body holding me, be my reminder here that i am not
alone in this. ...hold on, stay inside this holy
reality, this holy experience." this is your path to
divinity, the more horizontal portion of the parabola.
if you've done what's instructed so far, been less
angry towards others, you start to see the near
vertical slope of the rest of the parabola, infinity,
the possibility of reaching divinity. divinity is
your next step after your human form dies. live this
life, experience all you can from it, because after
this it's divinity. but with this realization, you'll
naturally focus on just yourself too much, and find
yourself now bored with the rest of humanity. "tell
me something, tell me anything. watch the weather
change," he says in disposition, next in the
sequence. you'll wonder why they can't do the right
thing like you are. you'll consider yourself higher
than them, better, and hence your ego is now too big.
time to sit back and realize that you didn't learn
about this new path on your own, but rather with the
guidance of another, who admits himself that he didn't
discover it on his own either, but through "...a
million light reflections..." of others, he says in
reflection. that's your last step, putting your ego
back in check. accept your ego, embrace it, but put
it equally alongside everyone else's, because you're
not alone on this journey. live like that until you
die, and you'll reach divinity. and then the
seemingly joyous primal complexity that is triad,
driving rhythms, dissonance, screaming, all depicting
the unexplained emotion that comes with finding the
meaning behind it all. meditate with your mantra now,
because you finally see it all fitting together. you
found the beauty in the dissonance of yourself and
human relationships, wars and marriages alike, that we
learn from them, and grow, and schism is a
metaphorical way to look at what you've just learned.
suddenly it's intriguing to watch it all. you've seen
what anger can do, holding grudges, and their
destructive results. but you've also seen that those
results taught you to not only be very introspective
and change your ways if you want to reach divinity,
but also to communicate with and teach others these
same ideals, so that we may all be divine. and then
the last song in the sequence, faaip de oaid, or word
of god. take them apart. more than likely, you read
the title before you heard the track, because at the
very least, you were curious why there was so much
silence first. but also, since you reorganized the
track listing, you had to look at the titles, read
faaip di oaid, and said to yourself 'word of god'. so
the first thought that might pop into your head after
hearing schism would be 'next is the word of god'.
you haven't heard the track yet in this sequence, so
ignore it. what you just LISTENED to was the word of
god. pure creative enlightenment by the collective
spirit of tool, for anyone who cares to listen. as
your contemplating this in your head, running through
your new thought processes, we get tool lightening the
mood a little, don't strain yourself too hard,
remember over thinking, over analyzing, seperate the
body from the mind. you'll neglect your human form.
suddenly you're listening to a supposed former
employee of area 51 calling the art bell show, which i
believe did turn out to be a hoax, not sure, but it
gets you thinking about those posibilities, but this
track seems humorous, and then it's over.

hope this is what you wanted. hope this what you had
in mind. which reminds me, there's one track not in
the sequence, and lyrics seem completely completely
notrelative to the rest of the album. yes, ticks &
leeches, track 8 on the original list, directed at...
their recording label, or maybe the fans? i think
it's meant more for us. we waited awhile, salivating
over a few live tracks and all their videos to date on
a dvd, with, hrm, LSD on the box? you tell me. and
we expected a lot, we're tool fans, we know the band
is incredible, we know they're all geniuses, very
spiritual in their own ways, blah blah. and they
poured everything they had into this album. we sucked
them dry.

Continued...

Turn the music off now, and remember that i basically
made all of that up. i did correctly use the
fibonacci sequence, and i do hear those messages in
those songs, along with others. i've never desired to
rearrange the cd until i read your email with that
kid's post. i decided i could do the same thing, and
at least make it believable. trust me, i have no
backing on this, you're the first to read it, and
though it looks pretty, it's just me making **** up
and sugar coating it. i've been listening to the
album with the new track listing for a few days now,
and thinking of what'd i'd written, how i'd change
words around, and i think it works. again, i'm not
saying it's valid for anything. but i will say that
it's believable. oh, and if someone swallows this
completely, and wants to know where it came from,
please be courteous and honest, and give them my email
address. it took a lot of time and thought to put it
together like that, and explain it all, and i'd hate
to see someone else get famous for my crap. thank
you. and no, you don't have to show this to anyone.
do with it as you will."

Heres his e-mail:djmndlss@yahoo.com.