if tinychat means anything, hes exactly the same

Well, the idea of marriage doesn't get me excited either, and I think having children is just plain immoral in this fucked up world, but I just have to say this: you haven't really formed any decent argument against commitment in a relationship either, adb, or against irl friendship and that. You keep telling everyone they don't form sound arguments, but most of your assertions are just that: assertions, with no arguments to back them up.

"blinkered views"

seriously, saying theres no point in arguing w/ me has and always been a cop out. All I want to hear is a counter argument to what I said.

and lol, noon wtf u talking about

[QUOTE=Morumbar;18623615]Well, the idea of marriage doesn't get me excited either, and I think having children is just plain immoral in this fucked up world, but I just have to say this: you haven't really formed any decent argument against commitment in a relationship either, adb, or against irl friendship and that. You keep telling everyone they don't form sound arguments, but most of your assertions are just that: assertions, with no arguments to back them up.[/QUOTE]

i see not having kids for that reason as something quite fatalistic about the future. sure the world is fucked up in many respects but life is essentially what you make it especially in a free society like we enjoy. i could understand you saying that more if you were living in a warzone, for example

kids are simply not worth the investment

the finances you have to pump into them for the happiness you get is not worth it

the whole idea of the american dream is abhorrent

[QUOTE]you haven't really formed any decent argument against commitment in a relationship either, adb, or against irl friendship and that. You keep telling everyone they don't form sound arguments, but most of your assertions are just that: assertions, with no arguments to back them up.[/QUOTE]

I stated how traditions can be refuted with a simple google search

and it is implied that everyone gets bored easier nowadays.

I think commitment is just an outdated thing. Social norms will never allow polygamy or simply having multiple sex partners. Where are those norms rooted in? Tradition

tradition contradicts biology

[QUOTE=adbforever;18623618]"blinkered views"

seriously, saying theres no point in arguing w/ me has and always been a cop out. All I want to hear is a counter argument to what I said.

and lol, noon wtf u talking about[/QUOTE]

my first post about marriage had points in favour of marriage. the idea of kids having the stability of a mother and father being together is a point in favour of marriage. you have not addressed either of those points

[quote]Well, the idea of marriage doesn't get me excited either, and I think having children is just plain immoral in this fucked up world,[/quote]gotta disagree

by anyway measure we are living in the safest, wealthiest, healthiest, most culturally rich and engaging times humankind has ever been through.

yes isolated events are perceived to be terrible, or getting worse but you must consider that as our power to do evil increases, as we grow in unique human lives exponentially, the billions more people that exist since even from the day we were born, the event or dissemination of particularly threatening ideas that would seem rare or unreal becomes more and more likely.

you underestimate this^

[QUOTE=Stevie;18623622]i see not having kids for that reason as something quite fatalistic about the future. sure the world is fucked up in many respects but life is essentially what you make it especially in a free society like we enjoy. i could understand you saying that more if you were living in a warzone, for example[/QUOTE]
Idk, I see life as something undesirable, regardless of health, safety, friendship, love and wealth. But let's not get into that right now. I've noticed people are tired of that discussion here on MX.

[QUOTE=adbforever;18623623]I stated how traditions can be refuted with a simple google search[/quote]
This is still not a sound argument.

[quote]and it is implied that everyone gets bored easier nowadays. [/quote]
This doesn't refute monogamy.

[quote]I think commitment is just an outdated thing. Social norms will never allow polygamy or simply having multiple sex partners. Where are those norms rooted in? Tradition[/quote]
You have yet to prove that all traditions are dumb, or that monogamy has no value or use in society.

[quote]tradition contradicts biology[/QUOTE]
Why should biological urges be valued over tradition or commonly held moral values? Plus, if biology is to be valued, doesn't that then mean you should reproduce as much as possible, as opposed to not having children?

[QUOTE=Stevie;18623624]my first post about marriage had points in favour of marriage. the idea of kids having the stability of a mother and father being together is a point in favour of marriage. you have not addressed either of those points[/QUOTE]

it depends on the marriage. a dyfunctional one is awful for raising kids, staying together just for the sake of their kids..I have first hand experience of that

my rebuttal is DON'T HAVE KIDS. I could never be w/ a girl who wanted kids

I'm adamant in my view of kids. They're god awful.

[QUOTE=Morumbar;18623629]Idk, I see life as something undesirable, regardless of health, safety, friendship, love and wealth. [b]But let's not get into that right now. I've noticed people are tired of that discussion here on MX.[/b][/quote]

alright

[QUOTE]tradition contradicts biology [/QUOTE]tradition is the simplest biology,
it is the direct result of what our senses tell us,
tradition is what the economy is built on, if we didn't honor contracts or money or get marketing degrees and believe in all of that then you would be right

belief and giving arbitrary value to trivial things is what culture and simple healthy social functioning is built on

traditions are dumb because I don't believe there is much scientific roots. I could be wrong, but I believe traditions and social norms have been past on from generations

those generations had no means to question or challenge.

I'm saying the internet era has changed the entire world in ways nothing has and probably never will again.

It is the ultimate in destroying faulty reasoning, along with constant technological advancment

[QUOTE=adbforever;18623623]kids are simply not worth the investment

the finances you have to pump into them for the happiness you get is not worth it[/quote]
Aren't you always going on about bare assertions? I wasn't aware that you are the standard gauge of happiness.


[quote]the whole idea of the american dream is abhorrent[/quote]
Having or wanting children isn't necessarily predicated on fulfilling the American dream.


[quote]I think commitment is just an outdated thing. Social norms will never allow polygamy or simply having multiple sex partners. Where are those norms rooted in?[/quote]
Things like polyamorous relationships do exist. They might not be the norm, but they certainly exist, and are more socially acceptable than practicing polygamy. I'm not sure why you care so much about fulfilling social norms in regards to relationships, though. If you and your partner want to sleep around, then you can do that.

[QUOTE=adbforever;18623631]it depends on the marriage. a dyfunctional one is awful for raising kids, staying together just for the sake of their kids..I have first hand experience of that[/QUOTE]

of course not all marriages work but you have to understand the merit of a functioning family where mother and father work together to do what is best for the child. you argued that people want to move on from partner to partner. what do you think that does to a child if their parent 'gets bored' and moves on?

[quote]my rebuttal is DON'T HAVE KIDS. I could never be w/ a girl who wanted kids

I'm adamant in my view of kids. They're god awful.[/QUOTE]

my response is exactly the same....so we'll all stop having kids and humanity gets wiped out...

or, am i just twisting your words

[QUOTE]there is no point when you put words in my mouth and twist everything around to make me sound dumb[/QUOTE]

he doesn't need to, you do such a great job of sounding dumb all by yourself

which will be great for later in life when you've inevitably alienated everyone around you and you'll have to argue with yourself

look at the chubby kid! !!! haHAHA!
[QUOTE]Aren't you always going on about bare assertions? I wasn't aware that you are the standard gauge of happiness.
[/QUOTE]

how is that a bare assertion saying kids are an investment hur durf. You reap what you sow in them, and even then they're still their own entity and can think for themselves. Kids are the most variable thing you can possibly exist with.

[QUOTE]of course not all marriages work but you have to understand the merit of a functioning family where mother and father work together to do what is best for the child. you argued that people want to move on from partner to partner. what do you think that does to a child if their parent 'gets bored' and moves on?[/QUOTE]

they cheat. cheating happens because they tire of something - either their predictable sex, lack of happiness...or just making a dumb decision based on visuals (finding a hot dude at a bar and being impulsive, idk)

[QUOTE=adbforever;18623637]traditions are dumb because I don't believe there is much scientific roots. I could be wrong, but I believe traditions and social norms have been past on from generations[/quote]
Traditions have, but social norms fluctuate much faster than traditions.

[quote]those generations had no means to question or challenge.[/quote]
Questioning and challenging ideas has been a dominant part of world history, especially in the late 18th-20th centuries.

[quote]I'm saying the internet era has changed the entire world in ways nothing has and probably never will again.[/quote]
The internet has made challenging and questioning ideas and authority more ubiquitous (e.g. the Arab Spring), but statements like:
[quote]It is the ultimate in destroying faulty reasoning, along with constant technological advancment[/QUOTE]
are probably a bit optimistic, unfortunately.

[QUOTE=adbforever;18623637]traditions are dumb because I don't believe there is much scientific roots. I could be wrong, but I believe traditions and social norms have been past on from generations

those generations had no means to question or challenge.

I'm saying the internet era has changed the entire world in ways nothing has and probably never will again.

It is the ultimate in destroying faulty reasoning, along with constant technological advancment[/QUOTE]

our society is built on centuries of trial and improvement. i think it's really dangerous in this modern age that people are so arrogant that they think they [especially this young arrogant generation] know better than age old traditions that exist in so many cultures in the world. sure you could argue against more superficial or irrelevant parts of tradition and i would agree there, but when it comes to something like marriage it has deep implications for society that we shouldn't sweep aside with some half thought out ideas.

related to traditions more and more im understanding the importance of taking advice from elders. when you're young you think you know the world but you don't. more and more i'm realising with experiences here and there that i actually know very little and still have a lot to learn from my parents, grandparents etc. how is this related to traditions? it's about listening and respecting what has more experience and wisdom that you have

[QUOTE]related to traditions more and more im understanding the importance of taking advice from elders. when you're young you think you know the world but you don't. more and more i'm realising with experiences here and there that i actually know very little and still have a lot to learn from my parents, grandparents etc. how is this related to traditions? it's about listening and respecting what has more experience and wisdom that you have[/QUOTE]yeah this is true. these are real things, wisdom and experience

[QUOTE=adbforever;18623643]how is that a bare assertion saying kids are an investment hur durf. You reap what you sow in them, and even then they're still their own entity and can think for themselves. Kids are the most variable thing you can possibly exist with.[/QUOTE]

You didn't just say that kid's were an investment. You said that the happiness that one will get out of children is not worth the investment. That is an absolute statement about something that's rather relative.