[QUOTE=RyanTheDrummer]
Metallica was never the heaviest thrash band anyway.[/QUOTE]

what does that have to do with anything.

[QUOTE=vashts80]Heh, heh, I love the dude who cited FWTBT as why Cliff was better than Rob is. I was playing that soing fully a month into bass playing.

As for why Rob is better than Cliff? What did Cliff bring to the table, for [b]bassplaying[/b]? Not much. His songwriting was standard or just above standard for thrash metal. He brought a lot of musical theory to the table. But his basslines were not special.

The only stand out lines I can think of are Ktulu the solo near the end in Orion, and Leper Messiah's line. Really, that's it. Everything followed the guitars. Does anybody really consider that "special" or "technical"? Unless of course it's Meshuggah or something while they're flying all over the fingerboard.

Did Cliff play a 5 string bass? Did he play fretless? Did he play 6 strings? No, No, No. While I realize that playing more strings, or playing fretless doesn't necessarily equal talent (although fretless basses, especially unlined, are a LOT harder to play when you first start, take it from me), Burton was extremely limited in what he could do in his "lead bass" roll, which quite honestly, wasn't lead bass.

My top 25 bassists in metal (not in any particular order):

Jim Sheppard (Nevermore)
Felipe Andreoli (Angra)
Martin Mendez (Opeth)
[B]Johan DeFarfalla[/B] (ex-Opeth)
Steve DiGiorgio (Sadus, ex-Death, ex-Testament, etc)
Eric Langlois (Cryptopsy)
Alex Webster (Cannibal Corpse)
Steve Harris (Iron Maiden)
Mattias Norrman (Katatonia)
Scott Clendenin (Death, ex-Control Denied)
Mike Gonzalez (Dark Angel)
Tony Choy (Atheist, ex-Pestilence)
Sean Malone (Cynic)
Roger Patterson (ex-Atheist, R.I.P)
John Myung (Dream Theater)
Dominic LaPointe (Quo Vadis)
Joey DeMaio (Manowar)
Gustaf Hielm (Meshuggah)
Tyr (Emperor, Borknagar)
Stephan Fimmers (Necrophagist)
Hugh Steven James Mingay (Arcturus)
Arjen Anthony Lucassen (Ayreon etc)
Marcin Nowak (ex-Behemoth, Vader)
Peter Theobald (Akercocke)
Chief Spires (ex-Nile)[/QUOTE]


I couldn't have explained that better myself. I love Johan's playing on Morningrise, quite talented he was.

[QUOTE=vashts80]I was playing that soing fully a month into bass playing.[/QUOTE]

So you think any song that's easy to learn CAN'T be good? That's pretty stupid considering it's wrong.

But then again, you are a guy who considers all best comparisons to only look at technical side.

[QUOTE=vashts80]As for why Rob is better than Cliff? What did Cliff bring to the table, for [b]bassplaying[/b]? Not much.[/QUOTE]

Cliff has only inspired thousands of bass players. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=RyanTheDrummer]All of you kids who say thrash died because of metallica,I remind you Pantera lasted into the 2000's.

They'res plenty of thrash bands out there.Metallica was never the heaviest thrash band anyway.[/QUOTE]

I think you, "kid", need to learn to read. Happy's post:

"That's an interesting thing to say. Like Cliff's death was the end of [b]Thrash/Heavy Metal 'Tallica[/b] and Jason's leaving was the end of Hard Rock 'Tallica. Wonder what's next."

Thrash metallica doesn't mean thrash in general.

BTW there are still bands like Slayer who are much thrashier than pantera.

Rob didn't write the bassline for 1919 Eternal he was just on the record for recording and he helped Zakk with 1 song...I can hardly call that a fair example of his skills

BLS is doing fine without Rob. Zakk is what makes BLS sound good. Not bassist, drummer, or the other guitarist. But cliff on the other hand, made the whole band sound better imo.

But really, it's not fair to say right now that Cliff was a better bassist. If Rob doesn't do much good in metallica, then it'll be fair to say so since both of them have been in the same band.

[QUOTE=fatbandit]
Ellefson > Burton too while we're at it IMO.
[/QUOTE]

Nah, imo Ellefson is just fast, great player but not better than Cliff.

I like his basslines like My Last Words, Five Magics, Bad Omen, but they are nothing great, his new project F5 is good also.
Burton had simple recordings like FWTBT, Orion, Anesthesia, Phantom Lord, etc.
Studio wise, Ellefson is better than Burton, live, well Burton actually shred with the bass.

[QUOTE=PepsiMetal]BLS is doing fine without Rob. Zakk is what makes BLS sound good. Not bassist, drummer, or the other guitarist. But cliff on the other hand, made the whole band sound better imo.

But really, it's not fair to say right now that Cliff was a better bassist. If Rob doesn't do much good in metallica, then it'll be fair to say so since both of them have been in the same band.[/QUOTE]

Rob hasn't had the room to do anything within Metallica...when the new album comes put we will see.

I like Cliff as I'm sure everyone else does but he had a horrible bass sound. Great at the top but got worse as he when down on the frets. Jason had more of a baritone sound then a bass sound which is what he was going for by trying to recreate a guitar sound and copy James/Kirk. Rob has a real bass sound and a heavy one at that

Billy Sheehan > all other bassist

[QUOTE=PepsiMetal]Cliff has only inspired thousands of bass players. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

...who all play in thousands of Metallica Cover Bands.

[QUOTE=Flynn]...who all play in thousands of Metallica Cover Bands.[/QUOTE]

Well, John Myung, Ryan Martinie(sp), Les Claypool, Mike Inez, Pete Steele accepted Cliff Burton as one of their influences.

[QUOTE=W.M.A]what does that have to do with anything.[/QUOTE]
It has nothing to do with it.

Nobody here says thrash died with 'Tallica.

Whoops I didn't see the extra page here.

if Les Claypool liked Cliff Burton as a bass player then he's pretty much hot ****.

[QUOTE=PepsiMetal]
But then again, you are a guy who considers all best comparisons to only look at technical side.[/quote]
Did you actually read what the moron wrote? He basically said Cliff was better than Rob because he wrote For Whom the Bell Tolls. Whoopidie dee! Anybody could have written that bassline, quite honestly.

[quote]Cliff has only inspired thousands of bass players. :rolleyes:[/quote]
I quite honestly doubt that. I really do. Steve Harris? Mark Hoppus? These guys have inspired thousands of bass players. Not Burton.

[QUOTE=vashts80]
I quite honestly doubt that. I really do. Steve Harris? Mark Hoppus? These guys have inspired thousands of bass players. Not Burton.[/QUOTE]
Metallica have sold over 90 million albums. I'm sure Burton has influenced way more than a few thousand.

[QUOTE=vashts80]I quite honestly doubt that. I really do. Steve Harris? Mark Hoppus? These guys have inspired thousands of bass players. Not Burton.[/QUOTE]

isn't Mark Hoppus that Blink 182 guy? I doubt they even inspired people to even pickup an instrument

Burton is a huge influence. Anyone trying to deny that is just incredibly desperate to win an argument.

I like Burton's sound/tone better than anything. He was talented, had a nice tone, and has been heard by a vast amount of people. I'm pretty sure a lot of the bass players in that group of people to Cliff's playing into account.

[QUOTE=BLS_Infernus]isn't Mark Hoppus that Blink 182 guy? I doubt they even inspired people to even pickup an instrument[/QUOTE]

Like it or not, skill doesn't mean that much in this aspect. Like Cliff, a ton of people have heard Mark's music, and may like playing to that style.

[QUOTE=BLS_Infernus]isn't Mark Hoppus that Blink 182 guy? I doubt they even inspired people to even pickup an instrument[/QUOTE]
i beg to differ. most 13-16 year old musicians play blink182, and are really into their stuff.

I guess you could say I picked up guitar because of Blink 182. Me and my buddy were in Sam Ash a few years back and he tought me some Blink 182 songs. I thought it was fun, and started playing guitar.

So yeah, whatever skill the player has isn't really the big deal.

...wow, I never realized I picked up guitar because of Blink 182 until now...

[QUOTE=Flynn]...who all play in thousands of Metallica Cover Bands.[/QUOTE]

*jumps into argument*

You're right because every single bassist in the world inspired by burton plays in a metallica cover band

Cliff was great indeed, I can't argue that. His playing was ahead of his and the bands time which made his musical theory become even more powerful on and off the stage. I think vashts80 is just trying to make a point that Cliff Burton isn't the [I]only[/I] talented bassist icon in Metal.

Of course he wasnt the only talented one but I think he was the best. And he was way better that an average song writer

people like Burton because of his unique style in a metal band...you don't find bass players like that anymore.

[QUOTE=Warlockwanter]*jumps into argument*

You're right because every single bassist in the world inspired by burton plays in a metallica cover band[/QUOTE]

I was being facetious.

[QUOTE=Warlockwanter]Of course he wasnt the only talented one but I think he was the best. And he was way better that an average song writer[/QUOTE]

Yeah he was, he was better then an average song writer. But you have to remember, as of now, there are bassists that make his style seem average. Technicality in music marches on.

[QUOTE=Warlockwanter]Of course he wasnt the only talented one but I think he was the best. [/quote]
While "best" in opinion is subjective, I can say that you're very misinformed. Please listen to some other metal to get crudentials in this field.

Death
Atheist
Cynic
Cannibal Corpse
Cryptopsy
Necrophagist
Sadis
Quo Vadis
Artension
Arcturus
Borknagar

That should get you started.

[quote]And he was way better that an average song writer[/QUOTE]
For his time, that's debatable, as well as if you want to stay just in metal, or if you want to go to prog, or jazz, or whatever. For now, regardless of whether you stay within the metal boundaries, definitely not.

[QUOTE=vashts80]Did you actually read what the moron wrote? He basically said Cliff was better than Rob because he wrote For Whom the Bell Tolls. Whoopidie dee! Anybody could have written that bassline, quite honestly.
[/QUOTE]

He didn't say that. You're just making idiotic assumptions like last time.

[QUOTE=vashts80]I quite honestly doubt that. I really do. Steve Harris? Mark Hoppus? These guys have inspired thousands of bass players. Not Burton.[/QUOTE]

Again, this is one of your moronic posts. So wait, all those people can inspire people but not cliff burton? So when did you say he raped your mother?

Steve Harris is a great bassist, and have done as much as cliff and more, but that doesn't change a fu[I]cking[/I] fact that cliff has inspired thousands of people. I don't see why you hate cliff so much. He's not the best, but your bullshi[I]t[/I] posts put him down like he sucked.

And Mark Hoppus, seriously dude, if you think mark has accomplished more than Cliff, then you need to rethink your theories and myths.

The fact is every musician has it's flaws, and pointing them out just to start arguements is beyond pathetic. There is no such thing as a perfect musician.

[QUOTE=vashts80]While "best" in opinion is subjective, I can say that you're very misinformed. Please listen to some other metal to get crudentials in this field.[/QUOTE]

Again, try to find a definition of opinion and subjective. Who are you to tell someone he is misinformed?

[QUOTE=PepsiMetal]He didn't say that. You're just making idiotic assumptions like last time.[/quote]
zsnaps, I apoligize for only reading the post once lolz.

[quote]Again, this is one of your moronic posts. So wait, all those people can inspire people but not cliff burton? So when did you say he raped your mother?[/quote]
I doubt that Cliff inspired many people, because they were still largely an underground band by the time he died. They didn't become mainstream until 5 years later.

[quote]Steve Harris is a great bassist, and have done as much as cliff and more, but that doesn't change a fu[I]cking[/I] fact that cliff has inspired thousands of people. I don't see why you hate cliff so much. He's not the best, but your bullshi[I]t[/I] posts put him down like he sucked. [/quote]
He didn't suck, no. But he's not ZOMGZGOD either. People over-rate Burton to such an extent that it's unbelieveable. Gee, he played "lead bass", which wasn't lead to ANY extent barring 100-200 bars of music over 3 albums, in a thrash band...the only thrash band to really make it out of the underground and into the mainstream.

A sub-par thrash band at that, really. Ulrich's drumming isn't good by any means, and Hammett's wah-pedal over the minor pentatonic scale over and over again isn't original anymore, nor has it been for 20 years. Hetfield is a decent singer and a great rhythm player if he REALLY plays Battery with all downpicking while singing (which I very highly doubt), and Newsted was a great bassist. Trujillo is a great bassist. Cliff was just a standard bassist stuck in the only thrash band to make it out of the underground.

Yes, I do play along to Metallica occasionally, but only for nostalgic reasons. It's nothing more than nostalgia, or for a nice workout if I play Battery.

[quote]And Mark Hoppus, seriously dude, if you think mark has accomplished more than Cliff, then you need to rethink your theories and myths. [/quote]
Read my post, you beligerant idiot. I never said Hoppus accomplished more, I said that he's inspired more people to pick up bass. Think about it: mainstream band that gets plenty of airplay who everybody who listens to the radio loves (Blink 182), or mainstream metal band that doesn't get much airplay anymore besides Enter Sandman and the occasional Master of Puppets (Metallica)? Good game.

[quote]The fact is every musician has it's flaws, and pointing them out just to start arguements is beyond pathetic. There is no such thing as a perfect musician.[/QUOTE]
Yes there is, his name is Gene Hoglan.

[quote]Again, try to find a definition of opinion and subjective. Who are you to tell someone he is misinformed?[/quote]
I'm God.

Seriously? I'm a music fan who can see beyond the hype. Burton wasn't the best bassist then, nor is he anywhere near it now.

you are retard...Metallica got big during Master of Puppets and if you lived in England they were freakin' huge. Cliff has inspired much more then any other bass player and he is a far better bass player then Jason ever was. being better then Rob is argueable. stfu you retard n00b

Guys burton(RIP) isn't the shi[color="silver"]t[/color]tiest bassist alive and to prove it.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/w/Metallica---For-Whom-The-Bell-Tolls-%28Live-1985%29?v=uwYt0XUBvc4&search=For%20Whom%20The%20Bell%20Tolls[/url]

Now to say that burton was the best is bs. Burton wasn't the best. But he wasn't bad. He was on the better side and on RTL he did contribute quite a lot. Now give it a damn rest and move on.

[QUOTE=vashts80]I doubt that Cliff inspired many people, because they were still largely an underground band by the time he died. They didn't become mainstream until 5 years later.[/QUOTE]

Was that a joke post or did you actually think that we were talking about cliff's inspirations before 1986? :confused:

[QUOTE=vashts80]He didn't suck, no. But he's not ZOMGZGOD either. People over-rate Burton to such an extent that it's unbelieveable. Gee, he played "lead bass", which wasn't lead to ANY extent barring 100-200 bars of music over 3 albums, in a thrash band...the only thrash band to really make it out of the underground and into the mainstream.[/QUOTE]

Ok, now put this statement and make it relevant to how cliff couldn't have inspired thousands of bassists.

[QUOTE=vashts80]Read my post, you beligerant idiot. I never said Hoppus accomplished more, I said that he's inspired more people to pick up bass. Think about it: mainstream band that gets plenty of airplay who everybody who listens to the radio loves (Blink 182), or mainstream metal band that doesn't get much airplay anymore besides Enter Sandman and the occasional Master of Puppets (Metallica)? Good game.[/QUOTE]

Prove it. Here's a random google search. Read how many people list Cliff burton as an inspiration, and how many mark hoppus. Cliff burton 3, mark 0.
[url]http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156347[/url]

You loose, idiot!

[QUOTE=vashts80]Yes there is, his name is Gene Hoglan.[/QUOTE]

Argh, again, I hope this is a joke post, because it's impossible to be perfect. But first find yourself a definition of opinion and understand that first.

[QUOTE=vashts80]I'm God.

Seriously? I'm a music fan who can see beyond the hype. Burton wasn't the best bassist then, nor is he anywhere near it now.[/QUOTE]

Steve Harris, Flea, Les Claypool, etc.. aren't best either. Do you know why? Because best is subjective and it's not factual. Oh wait, are we talking only about technicality like last time? :rolleyes:

Dave Mustaine, who you come in this thread and show how much you suck him off, has said Cliff Burton was the new Steve Harris of metal. Wait, was he wrong? :eek:

[QUOTE=BLS_Infernus]you are retard...Metallica got big during Master of Puppets and if you lived in England they were freakin' huge. Cliff has inspired much more then any other bass player and he is a far better bass player then Jason ever was. being better then Rob is argueable. stfu you retard n00b[/QUOTE]

Everyone in this thread knows he's an idiot. I like how he says, best is subjective and purely opinion, but you are wrong and misinformed because I know everything, and I listen to better music and have better ears.

lol, at least we can get a laugh of it.

[QUOTE=PepsiMetal]

Dave Mustaine, who you come in this thread and show how much you suck him off, has said Cliff Burton was the new Steve Harris of metal. Wait, was he wrong? :eek:



Everyone in this thread knows he's an idiot. I like how he says, best is subjective and purely opinion, but you are wrong and misinformed because I know everything, and I listen to better music and have better ears.

lol, at least we can get a laugh of it.[/QUOTE]
Pwned with that first para there

Are we really having a conversation about post-black album Metallica?

post ...And Justice For All...mainly about Cliff Burton

Who we all love.
Can't we just agree all the bassist mentioned are good?
They make music that we enjoy.I think that's enough :thumb:

[QUOTE=RyanTheDrummer]Who we all love.
Can't we just agree all the bassist mentioned are good?
They make music that we enjoy.I think that's enough :thumb:[/QUOTE]
Badda-bing!:thumb:

[QUOTE=RyanTheDrummer]Who we all love.
Can't we just agree all the bassist mentioned are good?
They make music that we enjoy.I think that's enough :thumb:[/QUOTE]

:chug:
I can agree with that, but you have to admit there's tecnically better bass players than others.

I know that man :thumb:
But I respect skill as much as the next guy,but what im saying is that it's all about what we like.If it sounds awesome,and it's ****ing complicated as hell,awesome.
And if it sounds awesome and it's simple,it's still ****ing awesome.

:thumb:

[QUOTE=RyanTheDrummer]Who we all love.
Can't we just agree all the bassist mentioned are good?
They make music that we enjoy.I think that's enough :thumb:[/QUOTE]

Yup. :thumb:

Enjoying music is what music really is about.

[QUOTE=PepsiMetal]Was that a joke post or did you actually think that we were talking about cliff's inspirations before 1986? :confused: [/quote]
Yup, I kid.



[quote]Ok, now put this statement and make it relevant to how cliff couldn't have inspired thousands of bassists.[/quote]
Nah, I don't feel like it.



[quote]Prove it. Here's a random google search. Read how many people list Cliff burton as an inspiration, and how many mark hoppus. Cliff burton 3, mark 0.
[url]http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156347[/url]

You loose, idiot![/quote]
Yes, go to a [b]metal[/b] forum and try to prove me wrong. Now, let's see, how many metal bands have really gotten out of the underground and into mainstream success? And why, exactly, was a [b]metal[/b] forum relevent?


[quote]Argh, again, I hope this is a joke post, because it's impossible to be perfect. But first find yourself a definition of opinion and understand that first.[/quote]
It's an inside joke on the Strapping Young Lad forums, douchenozzle.


[quote]Steve Harris, Flea, Les Claypool, etc.. aren't best either. Do you know why? Because best is subjective and it's not factual. Oh wait, are we talking only about technicality like last time? :rolleyes: [/quote]
Steve Harris plays root notes 99% of the time. But he does it extremely well. He's God, too, along with Gene Hoglan.

[quote]Dave Mustaine, who you come in this thread and show how much you suck him off, has said Cliff Burton was the new Steve Harris of metal. Wait, was he wrong? :eek:[/quote]
When, exactly, did I come into this thread and "suck Dave Mustaine off"? Yeah, k.



[quote]Everyone in this thread knows he's an idiot. I like how he says, best is subjective and purely opinion, but you are wrong and misinformed because I know everything, and I listen to better music and have better ears.

lol, at least we can get a laugh of it.[/QUOTE]
My hearing is actually extremely well. I can tell the difference between over-rated fanboyism, and actually knowing something about the instrument I'm arguing over, considering I play the thing. Steve Harris and Martin Mendez inspired me to become a bassist. I didn't think Burton was that special before I even started playing.

Once again, you're a beligerant nincompoop and a meddling deficient. Play bass before you start spouting your mouth off, idiot.

[QUOTE=vashts80]Nah, I don't feel like it.[/QUOTE]

Because it's not relevant like most of your post.

[QUOTE=vashts80]Yes, go to a [b]metal[/b] forum and try to prove me wrong. Now, let's see, how many metal bands have really gotten out of the underground and into mainstream success?[/QUOTE]

So you think in a metal forum, most people will claim Mark Hoppus as influence than cliff burton? If so, you are probably wrong. Why don't you ask in this bass' forum and see which one is mentioned more. BTW that was official Symphony X forum, who are quite metal.

[QUOTE=vashts80]It's an inside joke on the Strapping Young Lad forums, douchenozzle.[/QUOTE]

So why are you posting it in a metallica thread, idiot?

[QUOTE=vashts80]Steve Harris plays root notes 99% of the time. But he does it extremely well. He's God, too, along with Gene Hoglan.[/QUOTE]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

At least I wont bitch at your opinion.

[QUOTE=vashts80]When, exactly, did I come into this thread and "suck Dave Mustaine off"? Yeah, k.[/QUOTE]

Do a search on your username and this thread. I remember when we talked about kirk hammett and some song, and you came in here just for the sake of mentioning dave mustaine is better than kirk, even though nobody has even talked about mustaine. That's called sucking him off. Same as if I came to megadeth thread, when they're discussing favorite songs or something, and out of the blue, I just say, Joe Satriani owns dave mustaine. Which is stupid, and I'm not you.

[QUOTE=vashts80]My hearing is actually extremely well. I can tell the difference between over-rated fanboyism, and actually knowing something about the instrument I'm arguing over, considering I play the thing. Steve Harris and Martin Mendez inspired me to become a bassist. I didn't think Burton was that special before I even started playing.[/QUOTE]

Aha, here comes the part where you claim you know more than everyone and your opinion is always right. Talking about fanboyism... :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=vashts80]Once again, you're a beligerant nincompoop and a meddling deficient. Play bass before you start spouting your mouth off, idiot.[/QUOTE]

So I need to start playing bass to determine if cliff inspired thousands of people or not? Or why don't you shut your pie hole, go ask in bass thread, and find the truth for yourself? ok?

I started out as a bass player and guess who inspired me? Cliff Burton...all of my bass friend who don't play in Metallica cover bands and are in metal bands that sound nothing like Metallica will say that they were inspired by guess who...Cliff Burton. Many bass players were inspired by Cliff Burton and the other Metallica bass player but Cliff Burton was probabley been the mosy inspirational bass player to ever live. If you don't like that then stfu and get out of the Metallica thread.

Exactly. He needs to STFU if all he ever wants to do is bash metallica and all of it's members.