You can run a V-amp through any setup you wish.
If you just want to practise or jam with it through a monitor wedge then you'd want to either have a poweramp between the V amp and the wedge, or use a powered speaker.
Running it direct to your bands PA would probably be better anyway.

10" speakers are fine. I got one in my Mesa Combo.
Most 10" speakers can handle down to 100Hz efficiently. Which is plenty for guitar.

thanks, thats great

I NEED HELP.
I'm in a band, and we have this POS small guitar amp that isn't really doing it's job. I got a good break in money this year, got the guitar stuff I needed, and since I'm the un-announced "leader", I decided I need to improve our vocal department. What do I need to make it louder? I don't want to go buy a new guitar amp to do it. I looked at PA packages, and many of them that are in the $500 price range got bad reviews. Do I just need a monitor, a subwoofer, or whatever? This will only be temporary but I just need to know what I need to make this better. Thanks.

*EDIT*:
I figured I'd show you our setup just in case.
Drums-No amplification needed
Guitar I-120W amp
Guitar II-120W amp
Bass-30W amp(he's getting a new one soon)
Vocals-10W amp
^that's what need's to be fixed, a 10 W guitar amp when I need a PA. :confused: looking at this [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630426[/url]

my band has just started looking into geting a pa. we have 2 guitarists, a bassist and a drumer.i have seen a nady power amp for 170 us dolars and also some cheap speakers under a hundrd dolars. so my question is would this amp work and are these cheap speakers good enough untill we can get some more cash

were realy tight on cash and allready have a decent peavy mixer

thanks for any help

[QUOTE=alan1990]my band has just started looking into geting a pa. we have 2 guitarists, a bassist and a drumer.i have seen a nady power amp for 170 us dolars and also some cheap speakers under a hundrd dolars. so my question is would this amp work and are these cheap speakers good enough untill we can get some more cash

were realy tight on cash and allready have a decent peavy mixer

thanks for any help[/QUOTE]

sounds fine, although watch the wattage of your amp compared to your speakers- for under $100 for a pair of speakers (£70?) you're unlikely to be getting a great deal.

[QUOTE=metallicanirvana666]I NEED HELP.
I'm in a band, and we have this POS small guitar amp that isn't really doing it's job. I got a good break in money this year, got the guitar stuff I needed, and since I'm the un-announced "leader", I decided I need to improve our vocal department. What do I need to make it louder? I don't want to go buy a new guitar amp to do it. I looked at PA packages, and many of them that are in the $500 price range got bad reviews. Do I just need a monitor, a subwoofer, or whatever? This will only be temporary but I just need to know what I need to make this better. Thanks.

*EDIT*:
I figured I'd show you our setup just in case.
Drums-No amplification needed
Guitar I-120W amp
Guitar II-120W amp
Bass-30W amp(he's getting a new one soon)
Vocals-10W amp
^that's what need's to be fixed, a 10 W guitar amp when I need a PA. :confused: looking at this [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630426[/url][/QUOTE]

for that much, you would want more channels. You could get a lot more for $400, i think. try behringer or peavey powered mixers and lok at behringer and peavey speakers. In the future you may find yourselves wanting to mic up amps and drums, and you'll really appreciate the extra channels and wattage.

If you're short on cash look for the $200 Kustom 4 channel 80w package, it will do you great for now and when you upgrade you can use it for monitoring.

AES820,
heres what I wound up with...
2 crate audio s10 speakers as my pa speakers and a
crate CRM42P stero mixer for the speakers

How good is this for vocal use only? Is it good enough to plug instruments into as well? Let me know thanks

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz]AES820,
heres what I wound up with...
2 crate audio s10 speakers as my pa speakers and a
crate CRM42P stero mixer for the speakers

How good is this for vocal use only? Is it good enough to plug instruments into as well? Let me know thanks[/QUOTE]

turns out your mixer doesn't seem to exist, could you post a link to a picture/some info?

Moaner, hmmm looks like I wrote down the wrong letters.
[url]http://www.crateaudio.com/products/stereo_mini_mixers/CMX42P.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz]Moaner, hmmm looks like I wrote down the wrong letters.
[url]http://www.crateaudio.com/products/stereo_mini_mixers/CMX42P.html[/url][/QUOTE]

yeah, you can plug 4 mics into that, which i'm guessing would be lead vocals, backing vocals and 2 guitar amps. Into the line ins, you should plug the bassist's amps line out, and if your drummer wants micing up, the output from the drum mic mixer (most amateur mixers have insufficient inputs to think about micing the drums in the same mixer. Unless you got one of these:

[url]http://www.behringer.com//SL3242FX-PRO/SL3242FX_big.jpg[/url]

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz]AES820,
heres what I wound up with...
2 crate audio s10 speakers as my pa speakers and a
crate CRM42P stero mixer for the speakers

How good is this for vocal use only? Is it good enough to plug instruments into as well? Let me know thanks[/QUOTE]
I dont think those speakers have built in poweramps.
You'll need a seperate poweramp to go inbetween the mixer and the speakers.

But that mixer would be fine for a few vocal mics.

Running signals direct from the amps line outputs into that mixer will work. But it doesn't give the best sounding results. It is accecptable to take a line out from the amp into the mixer, but for the best sounding results you'd want to Mic up the cabinets and DI the bass.
You wont have enough inputs to mic up a drum kit. You may want to piggy back another mixer ontop of it for that.

AES,
I hate to bug the crap out of you but I really have no idea what i'm doing right now with these, and i've read the manual several times and I don't really understand it so im hoping you could maybe put these things into simple terms for me.

First I set up my wireless and got it into the mixer. My mic cabels are all at the house I practice at so all I could use today is a cheap guitar cord which may contribute to the problem.

I got it all working and after a little work I got sound coming from both speakers. However heres the problem:
I started singing, and it was just too quiet. I could hear the resonance of my singing in my head more than I could coming through the speakers(they're sitting on the floor right now because I dont have the money for stands), so I just started turning up all the nobs in mono 1 that I have the mic plugged in.

The only time it really made a difference is when i turned up the gain all the way, or level all the way. However, that cause a rattling in my speaker, and the leds on the far right under the logo started glowing and going up to about -4(I dont even know what this means).

I guess all im asking is how do I get the volume im wanting from this without having turn the gain or level up all the way and setting the leds off and causing a distorted sound. Is it just that I need to use my mic cable instead of a cheap cord? Is it something where I need to turn up the gain in the mic itself? Do I need a mic preamp?

No.
You need a poweramp do go in between the mixers outputs and the speakers inputs.

Buy a poweramp with a suitable power output for the rated power handeling of those speakers.

So, if those speakers are 200 watts at 8 ohms each..
Then a 2x400 watt at 4 ohm poweramp would be suitable.
Look on Ebay.

Red lights glowing means that you are experiencing clipping. And it is a bad thing.
It sounds bad and too much of it can burn out speakers.

aes, I know that using a mic into a guitar or bass amp messes it up over time, ad i know that using a PA is better. But my vocalist freind has only £130 as a very limit, and can't get any morte money. To put that in perspective, a cheap 80w 4 channel PA over here costs around £180-190. so, i told him that since its only for practises, he may awell buy a cheap guitar amp for £50 and save up for a real PA. Thing is, i remember that Bass amps are extremely neutral and though they might be best for vocals. However, my friend has a very high voice. Which would be better for him to use as a short term amp for practises- bass or guitar amp?

Hey I've got a few questions. My band finally is about to purchase some PA equipment. We're buying the Behringer UB1202 Mixer, a Gem Sound XP-350 Power Amp (look on Musician's Friend) and 2 Kustom KSC15 2-Way 15" PA Speaker Cabinets. My question is about the cables connecting them. You would just use two regular 1/4" speaker cables to connect the power amp to the speakers, right? What are the speakon and banana cables for? And also, would you use a 1/4" speaker cable or an instrument cable to connect the mixer to the power amp? Oh, one more thing. This is probably a stupid question but i just want to be sure. There's 1 cable going from the mixer to the power amp and 1 from the power amp to each of the speakers, right? Thanks for the help

[QUOTE=moaner]aes, I know that using a mic into a guitar or bass amp messes it up over time, ad i know that using a PA is better. But my vocalist freind has only £130 as a very limit, and can't get any morte money. To put that in perspective, a cheap 80w 4 channel PA over here costs around £180-190. so, i told him that since its only for practises, he may awell buy a cheap guitar amp for £50 and save up for a real PA. Thing is, i remember that Bass amps are extremely neutral and though they might be best for vocals. However, my friend has a very high voice. Which would be better for him to use as a short term amp for practises- bass or guitar amp?[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Just use a little sh!tty bass amp for the time being. It will eventually be ruined. But it should last several months at least.

[QUOTE=BlinkRockr41]Hey I've got a few questions. My band finally is about to purchase some PA equipment. We're buying the Behringer UB1202 Mixer, a Gem Sound XP-350 Power Amp (look on Musician's Friend) and 2 Kustom KSC15 2-Way 15" PA Speaker Cabinets. My question is about the cables connecting them. You would just use two regular 1/4" speaker cables to connect the power amp to the speakers, right? What are the speakon and banana cables for? And also, would you use a 1/4" speaker cable or an instrument cable to connect the mixer to the power amp? Oh, one more thing. This is probably a stupid question but i just want to be sure. There's 1 cable going from the mixer to the power amp and 1 from the power amp to each of the speakers, right? Thanks for the help[/QUOTE]
On the top of the mixer there will be two 1/4" sockets labeled 'Main Out' Left and Right. Connect both of these to both of the Left and Right inputs on the back of the power amp.
It says on Musician's Friend that that poweramp takes either RCA or XLR inputs. So you'll need to get yourself some cables with 1/4" plugs on one end and Male XLR plugs on the other.
You could just get a couple of microphone cables, cut off the female ends and solder on some 1/4" plugs if you wish. Bridging pins 1 and 3 to the sleve of a Mono 1/4" plug.
Or ask at a local music shop if they have any in stock, or if they can make you some up.

Use two 1/4" [B]speaker cables[/B] to connect between the poweramp and the speakers. From both the left and right outputs on the poweramp to their respective speakers.

The use of binding posts are for more permanent installations. Where you can screw the speaker wires in nice and tight and not have to worry about them coming loose.

Banana plugs can be plugged into the hole in the middle of each of the binding posts. They are just a differnt type of connector. However I am not the biggest fan of those, because they can be pulled out easilly.

Speakon connectors are a type of connector made by Neutrick. They are extremely good quality. They are pretty much impossible to accidentally pull out. They can handle up to 5000 watts each and they can also handle connections for speakers that can be bi or even tri amped.
They are really only normally found on higher end and/or higher powered pieces of equipment.

Thanks for the help. So I would need something like this: [URL=http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/336122/]Horizon Hi-Z 1/4 Inch M-XLR M Cable[/URL]?

Thanks for the help. So I would need something like this: [URL=http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/336122/]Horizon Hi-Z 1/4 Inch M-XLR M Cable[/URL]?

[QUOTE=BlinkRockr41]Thanks for the help. So I would need something like this: [URL=http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/336122/]Horizon Hi-Z 1/4 Inch M-XLR M Cable[/URL]?[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Get a couple of those.

And also, use good quality speaker cable. Like this stuff:
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/330050/[/url]

Well I just received my Behringer UB1202 mixer today and I've got a few questions. There are two 1/4" outputs labelled CTRL ROOM OUT, aren't those monitor outs? And I was looking at some specifications on the website earlier and all of the 1/4" inputs were reffered to as 1/4" TRS. What does the TRS mean? I have seen cables on Musician's Friend as XLR - 1/4" and XLR - TRS. What is the difference between the two and is one better than the other? Thanks once again for the help

I have a feeling TRS are balanced 1/4" jacks, aes is likely to know. Although I often see mixers that can take balanced 1/4" jacks, I've never seen a sound source that uses them, which is odd.

Well if that is so, then what does balanced and unbalanced mean? And you didn't answer my question about the two 1/4" jacks labelled CTRL ROOM OUT.

[QUOTE=BlinkRockr41]Well if that is so, then what does balanced and unbalanced mean? [B]And you didn't answer my question about the two 1/4" jacks labelled CTRL ROOM OUT[/B].[/QUOTE]

oooh, I am sorry.

I'm sure those will be normal line outs for monitoring. I can't think what else they'll be, and in a studio, the control room is where the monitoring would need to go. Although I can't really see any studios big enough to have a control room using 7 channel £60 behringer mixers, somehow.

"Balanced" leads allow 2 connected peices of equiptment to share the same earth, reducing hum. Or something along those lines. In breif, its just better, because it reduces hum.

The Control room out is for connecting up something like Studio Monitors. For the monitoring of the Mixers signal by the mixers operator. Like if the mixer is located in a sealed off sound proof booth, like in a recording Studio.
You'll get the same signal out of the control room outs as you would out of the headphone jack.

TRS conenctors are 1/4" connectors (TRS stands for Tip, Ring, Sleeve). And they've got three wires in them for use with stereo sources or balanced equipment.
As apposed to the TS (Tip, Sleeve) 1/4" Connectors. Which are used for mono signals or unbalanced signal sources.

Look at a TRS connector, you'll see two little black bands around it seperating the Tip, the Ring and the Sleeve. The TS conenctor will only have one little black band seperating the Tip from the Sleeve.

And yes. Moaner is correct in saying that Balanced equipment shares a common ground. If you've got a common grounding point you can eleminate the risk of noise. Especially in larger PA setups. Among other things.

Ok but can the CTRL ROOM OUT's still be used for monitoring in a live situation if I hooked up another power amp inbetween? And for the TRS cables, would it be better to buy TRS cables instead of TS to go between the mixer and the power amp? Or is it that necessary?

Yes, You could use the control room outputs for monitoring in a live situation.
Use the control room / headphones volume knob to control monitor loudness.

But I would reccomend you run monitors of the FX send instead. Connect the FX send on the mixer to your monitoring setup. And use each channels FX level to set your desired monitoring mix.
I believe the FX sends on these mixers are Pre-fader. Meaning that if you turn up/down the main output slider, then the monitor mix level will not also be affected. Like it would if you were monitoring off the Control room outputs.

The Main outputs on the 1202 Mixers are unbalanced. There will be no point in using balanced 1/4" connectors with it.

Alright thanks. In the instructions, though, it says under FX SEND "The post-fader FX signal you created using the input channel FX controls is sent to the effects unit via the FX SEND output.", so I guess that means its post fader and there would be no advantage to using the FX SEND for monitoring as opposed to the CTRL OUT's. But if I'm wrong and we were to used the FX SEND for monitoring, we're hooking up 2 mics and later on probably a guitar and bass amp, and we want two seperate monitors, one for me the guitarist, and the other for our bassist. So, would we just hook up the mixer to one of the inputs of the power amp and then run two monitors from it or would we need some sort of splitter to run the mixer to each of the power amp's channels?

Oh. So those FX sends are Post-Fader? That's a shame.
In that case, yes, just use the control room outputs if you wish.

With regards to only having the one FX send, but a two channel poweramp for the monitors. What you'd normally do in that case is either 'bridge' that poweramp for mono operation. Or use a splitter.

Is There anyway to use a mixer as a preamp if it doesnt have preouts?

You mean use one channel of a mixer as it's own preamp seperate from the rest of the mixers channels?

Yeah.
If the mixer has an Aux output that is pre-fader. You can run the channels volume down (so its not in the main mix) and just use this Aux output for your signal.
Or if the Mixer has an Alt Bus. Which can be assigned for each channel. You could use this.

The Behringer 1204FX PRO has got both a pre-fader Aux send and an Alt Bus.

Some other (bigger) mixers may have an insert path for each channel. That you could be able to mute the return of.

Yeah I think thats what I mean, I want to use a mixer as a pre amp for a power amp, but it doesnt have pre outs. So i think you might have just answered my question, but is there another way.

the mixer i am talking about is the Kustom 80 Watt Mixer

[QUOTE=CrazyDrummer09]the mixer i am talking about is the Kustom 80 Watt Mixer[/QUOTE]
In that case. No.

If the mixer has a line out (which i think it does) then you could be able to run this into other equipment. But you still must always have the Kustoms speakers attached to it.

Why not just sell the Custom and buy a cheap little Behringer or Yamaha Mixer for the poweramp instead. It'll be a whole lot more suitable.

[QUOTE]Why not just sell the Custom and buy a cheap little Behringer or Yamaha Mixer for the poweramp instead. It'll be a whole lot more suitable.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they're really good value.

aes, you know how using a mic into an amp damages it...

Well, is that because a mic is 600OHM and a guitar is >1MOhm? Because I just thought, some amps have CD inputs, so must b able to handle vocals. Its just I figured you could plug a mixer into the CD input of an amp and it wouldn't damage it.

The impedence mismatch may have something to do with it.
But I think it is the fact that the input stages of amps can eventually be damaged because of being constantly overdriven by the mic signal.
The input stages of guitar amps are meant to handle the signal from guitar pickups.
Like how extremely high gain settings on distortion pedals can also eventually kill the input stages of the amp.

[QUOTE=Aes820]Oh. So those FX sends are Post-Fader? That's a shame.
In that case, yes, just use the control room outputs if you wish.

With regards to only having the one FX send, but a two channel poweramp for the monitors. What you'd normally do in that case is either 'bridge' that poweramp for mono operation. Or use a splitter.[/QUOTE]Thank you very much Aes820. I think all my question have been answered and you've been alot of help.

[QUOTE=BlinkRockr41]Thank you very much Aes820. I think all my question have been answered and you've been alot of help.[/QUOTE]

seriously, 50p says you coulnd't think of a single thing about PAs or amps that he doesn't know.

[QUOTE=Aes820]Yep. The Nady 850 Looks pretty good to me.

Now. With regards to poweramps just some general advice.
1. NEVER run them without speakers (or a load) attached.
2. Don't bridge them unless you are certain you've got the loading and wattage for the speakers correct.
3. Run the volume of the poweramp up nearly all the way, all the time. Turn it up full then turn it down just slightly if it is too noisy while up full. Use the output level on the mixer to control overall volume.
Dont have the output level on the mixer all the way up while only having the poweramps volume down low, this is an incorrect gain structure and you can experience some major problems with clipping (which can burn out your speakers).
Turn up the poweramp and leave it up. Use your mixers levels to control your overall volume.[/QUOTE]Hey I was looking through some old posts and I found this. I thought I had read in my Behringer manual that you always want your signal to peak at 0db, so I assumed you set your mixer to be loud enough to get to 0db, but never go over, then set the power amp level according to how loud you want everything, am I wrong about that? Is your signal just never supposed to go over 0db and it doesn't matter if it's way under? You also said in the "What is db?" thread that you always try and set your signal between -3db and 0db? So how is it supposed to be? Also, could you give me a more detailed sort of guide about setting up a pa, like if there's certain order to turn things on. (My band has a seperate mixer, power amp, and speakers if that makes a difference). And one other thing, in another post this guy had two 100W RMS speakers at 8 ohms. And you recommended a 2x100 watt at 8 ohm poweramp or a 2x200watt at 4 ohm poweramp. I was under the impression that if you had two 100W 8ohm speakers hooked up in parallel, the most each speaker could receive was 100W. So if speakers are wired in parallel, the wattage being put into them can be doubled? I know its alot of questions, but thanks for the help.