[QUOTE=(*The Noonward Race*)][QUOTE=LittlePound]People agreeing with me, wow, this new feeling is nice.[/QUOTE]
thats because you're used to being spanked[/QUOTE]
what? that didn't make any sense.

damn I can't teach my kids how to subtract, i swear i've tried everything maybe if I give them a good thrashing they'll get it.

[QUOTE]What if your non-physical way doesn't work?[/QUOTE]
then you're a bad parent.

nobody benifits in any way from you giving into your frustration about this fact and smacking the kid around.

[QUOTE=The Tway]damn I can't teach my kids how to subtract, i swear i've tried everything maybe if I give them a good thrashing they'll get it.[/QUOTE]
They're talking examples more along behavior rather than educational or biological.

Its funny how words like 'barbaric', 'violence' and 'thrashing' are being used. Those would be extreme cases, cases where parents are nutcases, alcoholics or just plain sadists beating kids up for fun. A smack on the hand/wrist is not going to seriously damage a kid, or make them psychopathic or anything like that. They will know they've done something wrong that they shouldn't do and learn from it.

Peronsally, I think the best way to discipline a child is to tell them off, warning, etc, and if that fails, use a smack as a last resort.

[QUOTE]They're talking examples more along behavior rather than educational or biological.[/QUOTE]

then don't use the word 'teach', use the word 'intimidate'

I don't see why you would have to switch the words.....the kids are still learning and so it's teaching. It's not like the kid becomes some scared animal that has to back itself into a corner when mommy and daddy finds out. It's you did something wrong, you get a SPANKING not a BEATING!!! There is a big difference. Oops, my parents spanked me when i was smaller, i guess i'm going to grow up to be the worlds most violent person and shoot up a shopping mall while abusing my kids the whole time. Or....maybe not.

Simple. A kid cannot use reason (or listen to reason) to the same extent an adult can. Childhood is a period of irrationality when, in many occasions, a child will not be governed with sermons/speeches, but rather with physical action. Said physical action is the only way to reach a kid who will not listen to reason; it is, and remains, a last resort measure, and sometimes a necessary one. What's so hard to understand?

I've never been irrational at any point in my life.

probably because my parents didn't treat me like a dog.

[QUOTE]the kids are still learning and so it's teaching[/QUOTE]
explain why I cannot beat subtraction into my children.

the truth is the only thing they're being taught is to fear their parents, that's intimidation.

[QUOTE=The Tway]I've never been irrational at any point in my life.

probably because my parents didn't treat me like a dog.


explain why I cannot beat subtraction into my children.

the truth is the only thing they're being taught is to fear their parents, that's intimidation.[/QUOTE]

Because if they try to learn they're not at fault, and hitting them isn't going to make them better at math. If you hit a kid, they'll learn not to do whatever wrong thing it was that caused the "beating."

And you never answered me. You equated spanking with beating. Is sacking allowance or taking away TV privileges theft? Is it assault to keep kids from leaving the house?

It doesn't make you a bad parent if your kids don't listen. Did you always listen? Were your parents terrible? Honestly, with your stance, I think they were either hippies or raging alcoholics. It's also along the lines of intimidation if you use other forms of punishment.

[QUOTE=The Tway]I've never been irrational at any point in my life. [/QUOTE]
Oh, right. You were born a perfectly rational adult, then.

Children all go through irrational behavior, and you didn't escape it either.

I'm quite interested in seeing a picture of Tway... All of the things he says just make you wonder what he looks like. Call me weird.

[QUOTE]hitting them isn't going to make them better [/QUOTE]
123

[QUOTE]And you never answered me. You equated spanking with beating. Is sacking allowance or taking away TV privileges theft? Is it assault to keep kids from leaving the house?
[/QUOTE]
hitting someone is beating them.
not giving someone free money for no reason isn't taking something of there's illegally
and keeping kids from leaving the house is imprisonment, not assault.

[QUOTE=The Tway]123


hitting someone is beating them.
not giving someone free money for no reason isn't taking something of there's illegally
and keeping kids from leaving the house is imprisonment, not assault.[/QUOTE]

is physically stopping them assault, if they receive no harm?

tell me... what IS a justifiable punishment? Tell me a few, in order that you'd use if they didn't respond. So you don't think making the kids stay home isn't okay either..

[QUOTE=DBoon's Ghost]
As a parent, I think beatings are retarded. As a child who was both beaten by parents and teachers alike, I can promise you it changed nothing. In fact, as stated, it made it worse.[/QUOTE]

I don't think beatings are a good idea, but a smack on the bottom is sometimes neccesary, I feel.

I grew up fine, and I used to get rulers across the knuckles from teachers and belts across the back from my dad (only twice though). It didn't make me hate anyone really.

However, nothing can replace good parenting, which is why I'm glad my girlfriend is studying Education so we know the right theories to support our kids without coddling them.

[QUOTE]is physically stopping them assault, if they receive no harm?
[/QUOTE]
it's battery

they'd have to have a reasonable expecation of impending harm for it to be assualt

[QUOTE]
tell me... what IS a justifiable punishment? Tell me a few, in order that you'd use if they didn't respond. So you don't think making the kids stay home isn't okay either..[/QUOTE]
I don't see why they wouldn't respond.

[QUOTE=The Tway]it's battery

they'd have to have a reasonable expecation of impending harm for it to be assualt


I don't see why they wouldn't respond.[/QUOTE]


Did you always always always listen to your parents, and even if you didn't.. always responded to punishment? Not all kids are like that. Actually. none. Except maybe you.

People,

Tway is right.

Whenever I am at my friends and their parents use any form of intimidation I can't imagine how it must wear down at them day after day. It's very useless.
[QUOTE]Did you always always always listen to your parents, and even if you didn't.. always responded to punishment? Not all kids are like that. Actually. none. Except maybe you.[/QUOTE]Why don't you try and see his point of view? It's not like people enjoy pain.

[QUOTE]Did you always always always listen to your parents, and even if you didn't.. always responded to punishment? Not all kids are like that. Actually. none. Except maybe you.[/QUOTE]
No I didn't always listen to my parents.

that doesn't mean hitting me would've made the situation better.

[QUOTE=(*The Noonward Race*)]People,

Tway is right.

Whenever I am at my friends and their parents use any form of intimidation I can't imagine how it must wear down at them day after day. It's very useless.
Why don't you try and see his point of view? It's not like people enjoy pain.[/QUOTE]


I see his point of view, but I'm trying to just make him see mine. He's all bent on it being wrong in every situation, while I'm just saying it should sometimes be employed.

[QUOTE=The Tway]probably because my parents didn't treat me like a dog.[/QUOTE]

What? So you're saying physical abuse works for dog's training? :smoke:

this thread isn't about abuse

and no I never said anything even remotely like that

[QUOTE]I see his point of view, but I'm trying to just make him see mine. He's all bent on it being wrong in every situation,[/QUOTE]It pretty much is once you consider that it's unnecessary and irrational.

You're just saying that because you obviously don't want to seem like you'd physical punish your child regularily.

[QUOTE=IdioticJester]I see his point of view, but I'm trying to just make him see mine. He's all bent on it being wrong in every situation, while I'm just saying it should sometimes be employed.[/QUOTE]
Would you agree that children learn at different rates? Some walk before others; some learn to talk before others; and some are slower than the rest in their class? Spanking is just a means to speed up a process that's going to be complete anyway.

A lot of people may think back, and even laugh, about being spanked and how it worked wonders on them but it only seems that way because it is, frankly, a dramatic moment in their childhood that, when reminiscing, emphasizes a point they knew their parents were trying to make. Mind you, this understanding only comes from years of experience which slowly translates into cognitive development. Consider for a moment that the same children we are spanking are also at the same time still developing their memories and imagination, thinking in nonlogical and in a irreversible mindframe, not to mention ego-centric. Through education and exposure, all children, unless biologically handicapped, proceed within an average timeframe through this stage and the following ones as well regardless of spankings.

Let's face it, many of the things children are spanked for, are, for adults, common sense. They become common sense through repetition and observation and are beat into our heads through instruction not our bottoms. To say "spankings are sometimes okay" is to say "at this point in my child's life they should know better and I cannot wait any longer."

somebody sum this argument up to me so far please

It's sometimes okay to spank vs. it's never okay to spank.

[QUOTE=thedeadwalk!]It's sometimes okay to spank vs. it's never okay to spank.[/QUOTE]

has anyone gotten into behaviorism lol

I suppose that's what each sides' argument is about really; whether spanking has a necessary or positive effect on behavior.

[QUOTE=thedeadwalk!]I suppose that's what each sides' argument is about really; whether spanking has a necessary or positive effect on behavior.[/QUOTE]
Its also depends if its just spanking, and how quickly its delivered after the "crime"

[QUOTE=Diabolus in Musica]Its also depends if its just spanking, and how quickly its delivered after the "crime"[/QUOTE]
And how much credit can you give the spanking versus the numerous other times you beat it into your kid's head with words, and what they learn through cognitive development naturally.

Your idea bases strongly on the Chicago school of criminology which suggests crime is committed because they want to and should punishment be swift, certain, and severe, they will not do it again. I think looking at the criminal justice system takes care of that argument.

[QUOTE]somebody sum this argument up to me so far please[/QUOTE]

wait lemme try to beat the knowledge of the first 11 pages into you