[QUOTE=Moses]I thought that's exactly what agnostism is. They don't beleive anything they haven't seen. I didn't know you had to believe in deities to be religious either.[/QUOTE]

Being agnostic is really just being confused about your own religious beliefs.

"There might be a god, but I'm not sure" type of deal.

[QUOTE=Dr. Jake Destructo]Being agnostic is really just being confused about your own religious beliefs.

"There might be a god, but I'm not sure" type of deal.[/QUOTE]
Alot of agnostics also say they don't believe in anything until they have proof or somthing.

You don't have to believe in a deity to be religious though, like Buddism, they just believe in a cycle of life and not a god.

One of my older students drums for his church. He asked me too watch him play live. I went there. Man has church changed. I went on easter when I was younger, but I have not been for atleast 10 years(Maybe more)

I get there and the lady didn't want to let me in. WTF!? Because "I looked like I was gonna steal the money plate." Basically because I had facial hair, and jeans she wouldn't let me in.

I don't know the religion, but judging someone as a thief is flat out wrong IMO.

That's really fu[size=2]cked up[/size], man. A lot of people are very hypocritical in that manner.

[quote=Moses]Those are just people that call themselves Christian. I was always raised Christian and I still have alot of Christian beliefs, but I've always been the one to befriend homosexuals and "immoral" people. Also the Bible doesn't really condemn homosexuality anyway.[/quote]

Actually my sentiment there I have never seen a christian act like jesus did, with no condemnation, judgement, or self righteousness. I realize that all christians aren't like the protesters I saw, but I have been around christians all my life, having been one myself for a good portion of it, I still don't see the true charity jesus displayed in the bible in those around me. I don't want to generalize all christians, because there are plenty of nice and moral christians. Its just that I see the same amount of selfishness/selflessness within any given group, being christian doesn't seem to be a real factor in how a person is.

[QUOTE=Rounder]Its just that I see the same amount of selfishness/selflessness within any given group, being christian doesn't seem to be a real factor in how a person is.[/QUOTE]
It's just that Christianity has been the dominant religion for a very long time and it's being misrepresented by the hypocrits.

I dislike people who try to force their religious beliefs onto every aspect of their lives...Christians seem to be big on doing that sort of thing.

[QUOTE]Definition of Agnostic:

Agnosticism is a concept, not a religion. It is a belief related to the existence or non-existence of God.

An agnostic is a person who feels that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence. Agnostics note that some theologians and philosophers have tried to to prove, for millennia, that God exists. Others have attempted to prove that God does not exist. Agnostics feel that neither side has convincingly succeeded at their task.

Are they Theists? No, because Agnostics do not believe in a God, or a Goddess, or in multiple Gods, or multiple Goddesses or in a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses.

However, some Agnostics consider themselves to be Atheists. That is because the term "Atheist" has two slightly different meanings:

1. A person who positively believes that no God(s) or Goddess(es) exists. E. Haldeman-Julius suggests that "The atheist perceives that history, in every branch of science, in the plainly observable realities of life and in the processes of common sense there is no place for the picture of a God; the idea doesn't fit in with a calmly reasoned and realistic view of life. The atheist, therefore denies the assumptions of theism because they are mere assumptions and are not proved; whereas the contrary evidences, against the idea of theism, are overwhelming." 1 This is the definition of Atheism used by most Christians, other Theists, and dictionaries of the English language.
2. A person who has no belief in a God or Goddess. Just as a newborn has no concept of a deity, some adults also have no such belief. The term "Atheist" is derived from the Greek words "a" which means "without" and "Theos" which means "God." A person can be a non-Theist by simply lacking a belief in God without actively denying God's existence. This is the definition of Atheism used by many Atheists. They use the term "strong Atheist" to refer to a person who denies the existence of one or more deities.

Some Agnostics feel that their beliefs match the second definition, and thus consider themselves to be both Atheist and an Agnostic. Such confusion is common in the field of religion. We have found 17 definitions for the term "Witch," eight for "cult," and six for the "Pagan." -- all different. A lack of clear, unambiguous definitions for religious terms is responsible for a great deal of confusion and hatred. It makes dialog between Agnostics and Theists very difficult.

An agnostic usually holds the question of the existence of God open, pending the arrival of more evidence. They are willing to change their belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future. However, some have taken the position that there is no logical way in which the existence or the non-existence of a deity can be proven[/QUOTE]

Posted that to clear up any confusion.

[QUOTE=Shattered_Future]I dislike people who try to force their religious beliefs onto every aspect of their lives...Christians seem to be big on doing that sort of thing.[/QUOTE]
Those are people who don't really know what their religion is about.

[QUOTE=Moses]Those are people who don't really know what their religion is about.[/QUOTE]

God, or the God talked about in the bible is a person, an actual being, not an Idea. Christianity, or the beliefs lived out by the people in scripture is nothing more than a relationship with the Creator and Savior, it was never meant to be a check-off list or a set of rules. When you get to know somebody and decide that they are good and want to be their friend and hang with them as much as possible, this is how a relationship with God is. The point that I am trying to make is that, the people that try and fit God into every part of their lives are the only people that understand what their religion is about.

[QUOTE=Rounder]Actually my sentiment there I have never seen a christian act like jesus did, with no condemnation, judgement, or self righteousness. I realize that all christians aren't like the protesters I saw, but I have been around christians all my life, having been one myself for a good portion of it, I still don't see the true charity jesus displayed in the bible in those around me. I don't want to generalize all christians, because there are plenty of nice and moral christians. Its just that I see the same amount of selfishness/selflessness within any given group, being christian doesn't seem to be a real factor in how a person is.[/QUOTE]

Jesus wasn't an all-nice, non-judgmental, non-condemning figure. The Sermon on the Mount's not the only part of the Bible. Seeing as how the Abrahamic religions all intend their followers to stick to the letter, it's the evangelicals and fundamentalists that are the true believers.

[QUOTE=Rounder]

I remember reading in the gospels Jesus letting that prostitute wash his feet, not condemning her, and shaming her, only showing pure charity. I have never in all my years seen a christian act that way.[/QUOTE]

There is one person that I knew once who comes pretty close. He was a homosexual anarchist and a devout Catholic who held a masters in religion, and he conducted himself as close to what Jesus intended as I've ever seen..very inspirational.

[QUOTE=ATC]Jesus wasn't an all-nice, non-judgmental, non-condemning figure. The Sermon on the Mount's not the only part of the Bible. [B]Seeing as how the Abrahamic religions all intend their followers to stick to the letter[/B], it's the evangelicals and fundamentalists that are the true believers.[/QUOTE]
You know know what they intend then?

[QUOTE=Moses]You know know what they intend then?[/QUOTE]

I doubt intention has to come into this. If it is the word and the law and perfect, then I see no need to second-guess the authors.

[QUOTE=ATC]I doubt intention has to come into this. If it is the word and the law and perfect, then I see no need to second-guess the authors.[/QUOTE]
The Evangelists are usually misinterpreting the Bible in alot of cases as in homosexuality and especially forcing the religion on others. It is meant to be spread but I highly doubt it was supposed to be forced.

there are so many kind of christians. i really dislike certain carasmatic ( or whatever its spelled as ) churches, with kids raising their arms and getting emotional and celebrity pastors shouting to get their adraline rushing.. and call themselves christians.. if i want to go for a concert i'll got for a concert, if i want to go for a church service, i would go to a proper church with humbleness and a quiet heart.
the point of my life when i started getting lucid dreaming got me in bands like tool and dredg. and i started reading the sub rosa and da vinci code made me question christianity.

[quote=ATC]Jesus wasn't an all-nice, non-judgmental, non-condemning figure. The Sermon on the Mount's not the only part of the Bible. Seeing as how the Abrahamic religions all intend their followers to stick to the letter, it's the evangelicals and fundamentalists that are the true believers.[/quote]

Well, jesus got pissed once, when there were moneychangers in the temple. Seems weird most christians have selective memory about that and still go to churches (temples) in which money is a big part of.

And I'll have to disagree about evangelicals sticking to the letter. If you read the Holiness Code (Levitus i think) not only does God condemn homosexuals, but also stoning to death a rebellious teenager, selling/buying slaves (including children), owning the slaves wives and children so that when its time to be set free, he must choose freedom or staying with his wife and children. having sex with slaves as long as the slaveowner is paid. So is beating your slave as long as he still lives after the beating. This is the same section of the bible that says having homosexual sex is evil and you must be put to death. Everyone seems to leave these parts out on Sunday....

This is taken from the Dutch listening session. Kindly translated by someone on the Toolshed forum.

---

Sunday night the day we’ve been waiting for was finally here. A handful of journalists were allowed to hear the entire new tool album, without knowing the track titles or album title.

The location for the listening session was original; a former monastery in the middle of the Amsterdam red light district. In the alley where it was there were women behind windows on the left and a doorman to let you in on the right. If you didn’t know where it was you would have walked past it.

Right after entering a girl from the record company shoves a contract under everyone’s noses in which we have to promise we won’t publish anything about the album till 13 April. Apparently there was some excitement/trouble after the review from a previous listening session in London was put on-line. A shame.

At the bottom of the stairs we enter the hall from the picture above. Imagine some chandeliers with burning candles, three speaker-towers/stacks with flat screen monitors showing all video’s and a couple of white couches from the lounge era (late 90’s). Nobody eats the French bread, tapenade, nuts, coleslaw and other treats.

After 30 minutes of drinking and socialising drummer Danny Carey, who has been walking around all evening with a beer in his hand, enters with a cd in his hands. The visitors all get wireless headphones and are allowed to enjoy on the couches. Danny Carey says ‘eet smakelijk’ (enjoy your meal) and wishes us fun. He walks to the vip area with bass player Justin Chancellor. Maynard doesn’t show himself.

We are spoiled during the listening session, the waitresses give us many warm and cold snacks, so we don’t have to get up during listening. It’s almost a silent disco, more than 30 people nod their heads to the beat, occasionally disturbed by the sound of breaking glass. Afterwards Maynard, wearing a cowboy hat, walks into the hall and is handed a microphone. Everyone takes off their headphones in a reflex, but you needed those to hear the singer. “ Thank you for you time and your patience, and now go away!”

Justin and Maynard disappear immediately afterwards, Danny takes his times to answer some questions and sign some booklets. According to the colossal drummer the band will be playing besides at Pinkpop in the HMH (the Heineken music hall, a venue in Amsterdam). Probably in the same week as Pinkpop or in the last week of June. There is no more time; We are kicked out of the building in a friendly way because there is another listening round for the international press.

Because of the embargo I’ve not been able to say anything about the record itself, but with my notes I can write something here on 13 April. There won’t be promo cd’s before the release of 2 may. The question is whether this approach is useful. A record store employee noted that the arctic monkeys leaked songs on purpose and their album is very successful. And even if I keep my mouth shut, there will probably be someone else who will put something online about the listing session.

---

Can't believe they actually made an embargo! So, it's official. No information until April 13th, and it's going to be released on May 2nd!
:D

****! European tour dates announced! *Dies!*

EDIT - If it's an 18+ gig in London, I actually will die.

I swear I'll see Tool this time around, I must. First I have to wait for the American tour dates.

I grew up a Christian, but when I decided to stop "obeying", and to start learning I strayed from "the path". I regret nothing..

I believe that the bible is a very important ecyclopedia in that it's stories were meant to teach a leasson, but people are too busy taking the stories as history and credibility, and learning nothing..

Jesus was an enlightened man, just like Mohummad and Buddha, and had lesson to evolve all of our consciousness, yet people were so hell bent on finding their messiah that they turned him into a Christ. So, then his disciples chronicled his life, rather than his teachings, and furthered the mythology of the Christ. Now his teaching are nothing what they used to be due to peoples will of twisting meanings, and true knowledge seems that much farther away..

So, I guess you can take I'm not Christian anymore. I do believe in God, and I believe that God is in each and everyone of us. That it is up to us to discover who God is (finding out Inner God), and create, progress, and evolve. In doing this can we ourselves become "Gods who walk among men" and become One Consciousness..

I don't know what to catagorize myself as though, but I like to call myself a Student of Esoterica..

***

That is f*cking awesome news Incubliss! Thanks for the update!

No probs, thank the guys at Toolshed for the hard work. Apparently there was a new Tool logo aswell. Can't wait for April 13th now! Hope it aint a Friday!

1 date at the hammersmith are they having a f'cking joke?

Plus imma be mighty angry if it's 18+.

Annnnnd the sunday is free for tool @ download. :mad:

But august is still open for reading, though they will be in america most likeley.

Well done tool :rolleyes:

Although Reading wasn't mentioned on the tour schedule, It would be nice if they went, anyone know any updates on this?

Awesome, thanks for that post, Incubliss.

However...:

[QUOTE=incubliss]Apparently there was some excitement/trouble after the review from a previous listening session in London was put on-line. A shame.[/QUOTE]
Might you know where to find that one?

EDIT:
Nevermind. Found it.
I just read Andy King's review of the album (crudly written but to the point). He rarely gets specific with the songs, but we get some good, tasty info.
I seriously cannot wait. Holy crap it sounds good.

5/26 - Lisbon, Portugal / Superrock Festival
5/27 - Madrid, Spain / Festimad
5/29 - Barcelona, Spain / Razzmatazz
5/30 - Lyon, France / Transbordeur
5/31 - Luxembourg City, Luxembourg / Rockhal
6/2 - Germany / Rock AM Ring
6/3 - Germany / Rock IM Park
6/4 - Landgraaf, Holland / Pink Pop Festival
6/6 - Hamburg, Germany / Sporthalle
6/7 - Berlin, Germany / Columbiahalle
6/8 - Dusseldorf, Germany / Philipshalle
6/11 - Glasgow, Scotland / Academy
6/13 - Hammersmith, UK / Apollo
6/14 - Hammersmith, UK / Apollo
6/16 - Switzerland / Interlaken Festival
6/17 - Vienna, Austria / Nova Rock Festival
6/19 - Milan, Italy / Filaforum
6/21 - Rome, Italy / Foro Italico
6/22 - Bologna, Italy / L R Arena
6/24 - Poland / Katowice Spodek
6/25 - Prague, Czech Republic / T Mobile Arena
6/27 - Amsterdam, Netherlands / HMH
6/28 - Paris, France / Le Zenith
6/29 - Belgium / Werchter Festival
7/1 - Denmark / Roskilde Festival
7/4 - Kristiansand, Norway / Quart Festival
7/7 - Gothenburg, Sweden / Metal Town Festival
7/9 - Finland / Turku Festival

:D:D:D

/books time off work for the 13th June :) :)

And how come you've got it listed as 13th and 14th, but on the site its only the 13th?

If its a 2 night gig, ill try for both like the greed git I am

'According to both Tower Records Japan and HMV Japan, the new TOOL album is scheduled for release in Japan on May 10. However, the band and their label have yet to confirm this information or announce a release date for any of the other territories. '

could someone please enlighten me why japan always gets the bonus dvds and early release dates

isnt that date later by like 8 days?

Yes, but see that's 10 days EARLIER in Japanese time. ;)