[quote=Moses]Well obviously, but the thing that makes me hate them is they attract the slacker type guys that sit there playing Xbox and listening to Tool all the time because they think it's so philosophical.[/quote]

Ok, but do you really believe all or even most Tool fans are like that? I don't own an xbox, I work 13 hours a day, and most of my friends are the same, and are also Tool fans. That's a pretty big generalization. Maybe the ones you personally know, but most of the people I know are not like that at all. There are 4ssholes and idiots in every group, Tool fans are no different. And hating a band for what some of their fans do is well, I don't know, ignorant. (no offense)

[quote]It's not so much staying out of the spotlight that makes me hate them, it's the way they present their work with such pretention and try to give the illusion of a grand depth with all these cryptic messages. I used to enjoy those kinds of things but I guess you could say I got sick of their "fake" vibe... Meanwhile I don't listen to them on a regular basis anymore.[/quote]

well, i would politely disagree on that point, as far as pretention. Most of the articles I've read that involved manyard describing the music, he was very honest and very simple. Its the other people trying to interpret what maynard has said that get pretentious.

Here is a Tool article that I think proves my point. Posted here for bastards to lazy to click a link :wave:
[quote=Tool article, taken from TDN]

Date: November, 2001 [B]Transcribed by[/B]
[B]Billy Greene (thechicken@mindless.com) [/B]

page: 14 title: Interview About Philosophyauthor: Prof. Christopher diCarlo"There must be something in common with what we're doing in Tool which has brought you and I to this point in our lives where we are having this conversation," said Maynard James Keenen in on the evening of October the 31st. Every time I spoke about the commonality between Maynard's lyrics and how I view the world, how my students view the world, how other listeners view the world, Maynard came back to this insightful statement. What follow's are excerpts from our 75-minute conversation.

Prof.: I'll start with your first two albums, opiate and undertow. The title of the first ablum is a referance to the Marx and Engels line "Religion is the opiate of the masses"?

M.: Yes, that's right.

Prof: You seem to have a rather scathing view of Christianity.

M.: My views against Christianity or religion in general are directed towards the 'middle men'-those who are in power and use religion as a market force by which to manipulate human beings for their own personal gain.

Prof: Were there personal experiances in your life in which you witnessed first account cases of hypocrisy in Christianity?

M: I was raised a Southern Baptist. I witnessed first-hand the hypocrisy of this particular form of Christianity. But it was a gradual thing. As I got older, I began to see people claiming one set of beliefs and acting in ways which directly opposed those views.

Prof: In Jerk-Off you state: "Consequences dictate our course of action and it doesn't matter what's right. It's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate my course of action, I should play God and shoot myself." Consequentialism, one of the main school's of thought in ethical theory, states that human's need to focus on the effects of actions in order to determine whether they are good or bad, right or wrong, etc. Are you familier with this?

M: No, im not terribly literate. I like to look into things and read up on them when I can.. Information itself is pure. Take a knife, for example. You can use it to cut up vegetables, meat, butter your bread, etc. Or you can use it as a weapon. The way in which information exists in its many forms leaves for us the decision as to how it is we wish to use it. Information itself has a certain purity. Human's have intetionality. it's humans who decide how it is they wish to behave.

Prof: I have on my office door the lyrics to Stinkfist because I think it is a very telling statement about what I have called the "Age of Immdediacy". That is, we want input/information/pleasure, etc., and we want it quicker, bigger, faster. Do you think North Americans have finally been reached in some way by the events of Sept 11? Has the fist finally been shoved up deep enough to wake us up to and make us realize that we are not watching a movie any more?

M: Yes, I would say the people who have been touched most are the families of the victems. But i'm not sure about the guys in Iowa, Montana or Arizona who get their information filtered through CNN. Because to them, information is coming in... thick with propaganda... all these media guys have hard-ons because of this war. They can sell more papers, magizines, keep us glued to the TV longer.

Prof: When I saw you perform at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto, during your first song, "The Grudge" someone threw an American flag onto the stage. Immediately, the bassist, Justin Chancellor, kicked it off to the side where a roadie grabbed it and took it off the stage.

M: Yea, I wanted to piss on it. The audacity that some people would assume that we're going to wave the flag and turn what we believe is a spiritual endeavour focusing on self-reflection and discovery into some kind of cheesy American propagandist movement, was the furthest thing from our minds.

Prof: How should people avoid the slanted trappings of the media?

M: Start by turning off the television.

Prof: .. and then what?

M: Talk to eachother.. you don't have to turn off your computers because that still allows you to talk to one and other.

Prof: In Parabola you state that we need to hold on to and stay inside this holy reality. in contrast to your attacks on Christianity, how should we interpret the use of the term "holy" here?

M: Life is to be revered. Few people take the time to realize how valuable their experiances are at any given time in their life because we can be snuffed out in the next minute.. This moment we are having is highly significant.

Prof: In Reflection you talk a good deal about losing or getting rid of the ego in order to attain some further end. What is it about the ego that prevents, or in some way, blocks one from getting some greater end?

M: If you look at the cycles of the moon, it starts as a thin crescent and then gradually waxes and becomes full; then i gradually wanes back into another crescent and then is gone. The moon reflects sunlight like humans reflect information. We wax and wane and when we become full moons, are ego's are full. We think we have this knowledge when in fact, the information we have his pure. And it reflects or shines off of us, is something we take credit for as though the moon could take credit for the light it reflects from the sun. We have to understand that we are ego-less just as the moon is without light. It and we, are simply reflectors. The ego is not respondsible for the information.

[B][I][SIZE=3]"The members of tool, I was told, rarely take themselves seriously in terms of their beliefs. They acknowledge a complex world and are having fun looking at the various wasy in which we can understand it. "I have very much enjoyed the last ten years of my life and how much people enjoy what Tool is doing," said Maynard. "If people can take something positive from Tool's music and use this for self-reflection and discovery, great. But im not going to preach to people about what they ought to know[/SIZE][/I][/B]."[/quote]

Maynard, even when discussing things that could easily become a brainbender is very straightforward, unpretentious, and nothing like the cryptic cult leader some people think he is. Even when the proffessor talks about philisophicsl theories, maynard answers with a simple straightforward analogy.

Well said, Rounder.
Great interview too, really clears some things up about Maynard.

I also agree with you when it comes to Tool, lyrically.
I don't see it as pretentious at all, if they give off an aura of mystery than so be it.
I hardly think it's intentional, nor is it one of their endeavours musically/lyrically.

To me, Tool's lyrics are like the book, The Tao Te Ching, transcribed as The Way (I think..?) by Lao Tzu.

Granted, the Tao Te Ching is quite cryptic, but I see the comparison in the way that they words are so open to interpretation.
I think this is why so many people see them as mysterious.
The lyrics are not to be taken on face value.
And even when they are quite literal they connect many other thoughts that provoke a lot of different reactions from parts of the listener in a personal way.
In a nutshell the lyrics make you think!.. Which is rarely a bad thing!
Particularly when it comes to an artform in the way of music.

I enjoy the challenges that Tool suggest in their lyrics.

[QUOTE=Det_Nosnip]I love their music, and agree with a number of their views, especially those pertaining to the nature of art and entertainment. I think that alot of their ideas and opinions are misunderstood or purposely misdirected (Maynard especially is notorious at this), the root or basic principal from which the band comes from is pure IMO. Although some of Danny's occult stuff is kinda...odd (trapping demons and whatnot), the man's approach to the drumset and overall badass persona makes up for it. :)[/QUOTE]

you avatar is getting me horny.. are they a band?

They are still my favourite band. They don't aim to please fans as much as other bands which is why alot of people do tend to hate them. I mean they aren't fall out boy or anything. Alot of the mystic sh!t is just for fun really, the members do seem to follow metaphysics etc etc. But they don't aim to be 'that band who think on a different level' it just happens when people start glorifying them and their intrests. I mean they have to write songs about something, why not write a song about metaphysics?

The music still gives me the shivers...i was showing my friend the good part of push!t today. I haven't listened to it for a while and i just sat there like :eek: for about 2 mins the music was just so refreshing and stuff. This was the part before maynard sings 'yet you say i might fade like a sigh if i stay' it just made me smile so much.

I listen to the odd tool album now and again but i have other stuff i can listen to, new stuff exploring new genres etc. But when i do sit and listen to tool it just reminds me why i have liked them so much.

[QUOTE=Kage]It's funny how everyone comes into this thread as wide-eyed, niave tool fans and then comes out as weary old men grunting about how much they hate Tool.[/QUOTE]

:lol: Tool is the marijuana of music.

[QUOTE=Moses]Well obviously, but the thing that makes me hate them is they attract the slacker type guys that sit there playing Xbox and listening to Tool all the time because they think it's so philosophical.

It's not so much staying out of the spotlight that makes me hate them, it's the way they present their work with such pretention and try to give the illusion of a grand depth with all these cryptic messages. I used to enjoy those kinds of things but I guess you could say I got sick of their "fake" vibe... Meanwhile I don't listen to them on a regular basis anymore.[/QUOTE]

Did you miss the point where the pretention was a joke? :p

But yeah, I can see your point, though to be fair, I havn't met many Tool fans at all.

I agree with Mr. Jake..
Tool introduced me into metaphysics, and I'm eternally grateful for the fact. Sure, that may have not been the intension, but that is what *I* got from it and I appreciate life more for it..

The ones who constantly complain about how much they hate Tool and such are the ones who suffer from ADD, and constantly need something new to stimulate their numb minds. In that case I would suggest better drugs, but to each his own...or watch Elmo or something..
Just enjoy the music, and once that is accomplished it won't matter how much you hate the band members. If you can take something positive, or any feeling stimulation from the music (or the band), then it was worth it..

So who read the "new album review" before they tried taking it down from toolshed and all those other sites?

It's a few pages back guys.

I have said before and will say again. Who really cares what Tool says outside of music.

[quote=Futuro]I have said before and will say again. Who really cares what Tool says outside of music.[/quote]

I agree to a point. I mean they certainly have intresting things to say, and its ok to listen to it. They are people that have unique ideas. But they are no different from anyone with a unique Idea. If you like what they have to say fine, if you don't just don't listen. They may change the way you see things, Musically they have affected me more than any other band. but like maynard said, he is just reflecting information. Maynard is not a great philisophical leader or scholar. Hes just a guy with an opinion. He chooses to share it. Some people choose to listen. Thats great, but Its not saying anything great about maynard, he is just 'reflecting' information. The information is what counts if you choose to listen to it.

[QUOTE=Futuro]I have said before and will say again. Who really cares what Tool says outside of music.[/QUOTE]

I agree completely but there is a countless amount of people who dislike Tool because they hate the idea of Tool...in other words, they hate what there fans are like, they hate that they're overwrought, and they hate their antics... so people choose not to listen to Tool. That's what I don't understand. I can understand why people wouldn't like Tool's music, though.

[QUOTE=clearvision]They are still my favourite band. They don't aim to please fans as much as other bands which is why alot of people do tend to hate them. I mean they aren't fall out boy or anything. Alot of the mystic sh!t is just for fun really, the members do seem to follow metaphysics etc etc. But they don't aim to be 'that band who think on a different level' it just happens when people start glorifying them and their intrests. I mean they have to write songs about something, why not write a song about metaphysics?

The music still gives me the shivers...i was showing my friend the good part of push!t today. I haven't listened to it for a while and i just sat there like :eek: for about 2 mins the music was just so refreshing and stuff. This was the part before maynard sings 'yet you say i might fade like a sigh if i stay' it just made me smile so much.

I listen to the odd tool album now and again but i have other stuff i can listen to, new stuff exploring new genres etc. But when i do sit and listen to tool it just reminds me why i have liked them so much.[/QUOTE]

/british intelligence* :chug:

Agree with every word. Tool may have lost their OMG DEY GODS magic, but I still dont get tired of hearing their songs. 46&2 came up on random playlist today (ironically, after Dream Theater - Home), and still had me air drumming.

I've decided the day I get bored of Tool is when I learn Third Eye, and nail it note for note, beat for beat with a group. Then, I will have ascended beyond Tool. :smoke:




(*not the type that informs the government whos gonna blow up what, only for nothing to get done)

Look, Maynard screws up!

[url]http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1URK60AXHK01C352BY75NWU0UD[/url]

This is proof he's only human. :p

[QUOTE=Dunkelheit509]Look, Maynard screws up!

[url]http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1URK60AXHK01C352BY75NWU0UD[/url]

This is proof he's only human. :p[/QUOTE]

REALLY!:eek: I thought all this time that he was perfect, I guess he can lose his voice after all:smash:

[QUOTE=Dunkelheit509]Look, Maynard screws up!

[url]http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1URK60AXHK01C352BY75NWU0UD[/url]

This is proof he's only human. :p[/QUOTE]

:amaze:
Ha! That was pretty bad...I remember when I saw APC back two years ago, he also lost his voice during '3Libras' and messed up the lyrics to 'Weak and Powerless'. Sh!t happens, heh.:p

[QUOTE=Dunkelheit509]Look, Maynard screws up!

[url]http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1URK60AXHK01C352BY75NWU0UD[/url]

This is proof he's only human. :p[/QUOTE]

Wow!.. And that's more than just a "screw up" that's a major extreme fuc­k up..
Poor guy

I wish that had been a video.

I think that reaction was called for too, that msut have been gutting.

Bet they had just done Ticks And leeches. That song was MJK excuse of losing high notes for several days after

Haha, Maynard.. I wonder what he did after that.

Ouch! Poor guy. It sounded like he was losing his voice....

Maybe MJK should get a voice coach or someone like Devin Townsend to teach him how to scream properly...there IS a way to do it without shredding your vocal chords.

[QUOTE=lucky luciano]I wish that had been a video.[/QUOTE]

It was. Update your codecs

They have added another a verse to Lateralus before. They all messed up somehow. So Danny started playing the verse tom groove. And like 8 bars later the bass came back in. Then they just repeated the verse.

I'll see if I have it on my comp.

[url]http://s53.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1GH90G7M76ARP3VBYMC4RTDLWH[/url]

It wasn't that obvious, nothing majorly embarrasing at least :)

[QUOTE=Sixty Ton Angel]It wasn't that obvious, nothing majorly embarrasing at least :)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Heck I really wouldn't mind an extra verse :D

Great user name btw.

Why thank you :)

I'd say the same about yours but I'd be lying :D

I don't know where the rumour of Tool being cd-perfect live came from, the OK bootleg have them doing plenty of minor mistakes

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]I don't know where the rumour of Tool being cd-perfect live came from, the OK bootleg have them doing plenty of minor mistakes[/QUOTE]
And Maynard always butchers the chorus of Reflection live, because I assume he can't pull off that vocal melody.

Kind of off-putting, given that that's one of my favorite vocal sections he's ever done.

It didn't sound like he was losing his voice in that first video, it more sounded like he ****ed up the lyrics.

Well, his voice went out and cracked, and then he was thrown off and came in with the wrong lyrics.