i actually agree with sam on this, and this is kind of the field i'm going in to.

i still drink, but it's not like i need alcohol to function anymore.

I like the feeling of control from fasts and diet manipulation. It's actually quite, I won't say addictive, but habit forming.

I just don't see drugs as something that should be a part of people's lives. Just my personal opinion. I know people that use them recreationally with no real problems. I just think not doing drugs eliminates a lot of BS from your life straight out of the gate.

I dunno Ron. There's not much difference between recreational drug use and ECA stacks for bodybuilding.

[quote=Aaron;18760901]I dunno Ron. There's not much difference between recreational drug use and ECA stacks for bodybuilding.[/quote]
heroin is quite different from ECA

ECAs = Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin.

EDOIT: I can't see there being any behavioural difference between stim missue and overuse of rec drugs. I mean, it's worse really to know about something in detail (which you have to for stacks, or stims) and to still missuse it.

I'm guessing most people that use heroin misuse it more often then you or I potentially misusing supplements, though.

I dunno dude. dunno if you can make that moral distinction unless you've used both.

How many death's/crimes/families ruined was caused by ECAs, though?


heroin is objectively worse in most cases

hard Bodybuilding supplements are like ten thousand times worse for you than heroin are you serious

heroin's not even unhealthy in moderation, its been proven to cause rebirth of cells which revitalizes life systems

[quote=BethanyLizard;18760914]hard Bodybuilding supplements are like ten thousand times worse for you than heroin are you serious

[B]heroin's not even unhealthy in moderation[/B], its been proven to cause rebirth of cells which revitalizes life systems[/quote]
neither is ECA


but in comparison heroin brings with it legal/health baggage that most supplements simply don't

people act like heroin is some sort of holy grail substance that defies every other drug in potency and health risks

in actual fact this is only due to a more potent physical dependency, its bad for people with an addictive and self-destructive tendency but most of my friends have done heroin once or twice and never even felt an urge to do it again

nothing like personal anecdotes to refute science

[quote=BethanyLizard;18760921][B]people act like heroin is some sort of holy grail substance that defies every other drug in potency and health risks[/B]

in actual fact this is only due to a more potent physical dependency, its bad for people with an addictive and self-destructive tendency but most of my friends have done heroin once or twice and never even felt an urge to do it again[/quote]
Well, that is because it is one of the most destructive illicit drugs known to man.

Sure, doing it once in a blue moon is whatever, but the dependency that can arise from it is devastating.



idk, maybe I'm just being massively biased her but I just don't see much use for drugs like it

[QUOTE=Deth;18760923]nothing like personal anecdotes to refute science[/QUOTE]

nothing like acting like science negates exptions to der rule

are you fucking kidding jason

real life examples are a totally valid and essential to proving that a scientific fact isn't an unfailing general truth

its not denying raw facts to say that i know people that have shot up dope a few times and people who have shot up dope numerous times without falling into addiction

well tbh for every person you know that didn't fall into addiction there are probably more, in a statistical sense, that do fall into addiction

thats absolutely ludicrous to assert that the statistical majority of people who use [I]any [/I]substance will fall into addiction

even if its crack, meth, heroin

you dont have the real life experience in drug culture to understand there's a far more complex psychological process to addiction than it just magically happening because the drug is highly addictive

[QUOTE=BethanyLizard;18760934]you dont have the real life experience in drug culture to understand there's a far more complex psychological process to addiction than it just magically happening because the drug is highly addictive[/QUOTE]

exactly

and you keep mentioning heroin but I told him to stop using that and use other less harmful/addictive drugs in moderation because it worked fine for me

we're lower to upper middle class educated white boys who abuse drugs

we have much self awareness to know exactly when we're pushing our limits

[QUOTE]
we have much self awareness to know exactly when we're pushing our limits[/QUOTE]

a lot of dead people have said this

[QUOTE=BethanyLizard;18760941]we're lower to upper middle class educated white boys who abuse drugs

we have much self awareness to know exactly when we're pushing our limits[/QUOTE]

like naut?

[QUOTE=Mr. Ron;18760942]a lot of dead people have said this[/QUOTE]

as sole possessor of my own body i think i have every right to make decisions that harm no one but myself instead of taking a more respectable route and citing propaganda as justification

oh but you could die and that would harm the people around you yeah trust me we all think about this

if we're speaking SCIENCE and RAW FACTS riding in a motor vehicle is the most dangerous thing a human could possibly do but i still like to live on the edge and do it from time to time

Just saying that drug use is an iffy thing. I've gone through case after case of people who actually have said the same thing you did.

i admire your viewpoints on this issue

drugs always have been and always will be a sacred religious sacrament

much like the worship of Christ the use of substances is a double-edged sword responsible for great works of art and creativity and positive changes in consciousness as well as much history of unnecessary suffering and death

it is my hope that as time progresses science and law will put more careful study into the complex interactions between humans and psycho active chemicals

[QUOTE=Stevie;18760944]like naut?[/QUOTE]

didnt he have some unknown heart condition

sup bros

EDIT: fuck this thread, confusing me and whatnot

[QUOTE=emily_;18760955]didnt he have some unknown heart condition[/QUOTE]

yes and that's what killed him

i was the one his gf contacted about it etc

[QUOTE=Mr. Ron;18760947]Just saying that drug use is an iffy thing. I've gone through case after case of people who actually have said the same thing you did.[/QUOTE]

so is alcohol consumption

its addictive too, it has physical withdrawals and can kill you

studies have shown its one of the most harmful drugs

alcohol is the only dangerous drug when you got right down to it

nothing else brings you directly down a level in the evolutionary chart with such ease