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[QUOTE=Cort2003]My friend went to a Tool concert in Oklahoma City when they were on their Lateralus tour, and he said that they played Ticks and Leeches.[/QUOTE]

They played that when they were doing the Ozzfest tour aswell, with Maynard playind his weird guitar. Great song, one of my favorites.

[QUOTE=clearvision]Right people...I have news (kind of)

My friend posts on Manson USA alot [url]http://mansonusa.com[/url] . Apparently some dude that posts there as links in with some of the major venues for tours in the US. And he says Tool are touring in July. Could be a load of bollocks, but if it's true... Sureley it means tickets will be on sale soon...and the album is coming soon! They better hurry up, radiohead albums are taking over my life at the minute :([/QUOTE]

i will take it as rumour for now. However, expect an update from Bliar soon on another completed Tool song, which is apparently more MJK vocal lead/experiments than their current work in progress. All your information is there at toolband.com, just dig through the pointless stuff (well, if you find Blair pointless that is) and it'll give you minimal info.

speaking of tool, has anyone ever heard of The Holy Grail theroy for lateralus? if not then here is a little explanation of it. Basicalyy if you put these tracks in order 7,6,8,5,9,4,13,10,3,11,2,12,1 all of the song flow perfectly into each other. this was also the way maynard had planned for the cd's track listing. its pretty scary though.

I found an article that spoke of this a while ago, though the order he spoke of was much different then yours. I'll try to find it..its a great read.

Its a bit long and I don't know the source it came from..its from another forum.

"
Tool's Lateralus is the most amazing piece of music ever composed. I think Tool deliberately wanted to give their fans something truly amazing, but wanted them to find it on their own. "Recognize this as a holy gift..." At first, I thought that the song Lateralus was about tripping acid - discovering true color by seperating the body from the mind. At first listen, I imagined the bending envelope as an intense visual. After becoming more familiar with the track, however, I had reformed my interpretation to something broader: think deeper. Lateralus, perhaps because it is the album's "title track", serves as the central clue for a puzzle that a friend of mine had read about somewhere on the internet. "All I know is that there is a different order for the songs - something about two spirals.

Oh yeah, and thirteen is in the middle." After scavenging through endless google search results, I gave up on finding more about this 'alternate order'. Intent to figure the album out, and very curious about the spirals - I put on the proverbial 'thinking cap'. I understood how the spirals could have a lot of significance, in that the album's title track offers the inspiring, "swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human..........And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been. We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been." In my internet scavenging, I had read one review, written by a drummer, who mentioned that Danny Carey's drum beat formed a fibonacci sequence during the song Lateralus. A drummer myself, I decided to get out the graph paper and follow Danny. I can't play like he can, but at least I can hear everything he's doing, and thus was able to construct the drum tabulature.

Sure enough, Danny repeats a Fibonacci sequence through the number 13: 1,1,2,3,5,8,13. After 13, he starts again with 1. Bringing in my Algebra 2 knowledge of the Fibonacci sequence, when the equation for the Fibonacci sequence (which I don't actually know) is graphed, it forms a sprial whose vertex depends on the number at which the sequence begins. Coincidence? I began to think not. I had already known of Danny's obsession with sacred geometry and am familiar with Bob Frissell's book, Nothing in This Book Is True, But It's Exactly How Things Are , so the significance of what I had stumbled upon had actually begun to settle in. This is where I just had to play with Lateralus. I had doodled a few spirals in the corners of my graph paper, and in doing so made the first important connection to Lateralus. I knew that if the tracks were in fact intended to be heard in a different order, "Parabol" and "Parabola" would have to go together. In drawing my spirals, I had begun with a vertex and 'spiraled' outwards.

After writing the numbers 1 through 13 linearly, I could immediately see that Parabol and Parabola would have to be the middle of my spiral (in that 13 / 2 = 6.5). I drew a simple arrow between 6 and 7 and then pondered the next pair. At first, I actually drew a spiral connecting pairs of numbers whose sum equaled 13 (the number of songs on the album). This, however, left the last track in the same position and without anything to connect to. At this time,

I had used my copy of Lateralus and Cool Edit Pro to take out the silences between tracks and put the songs in the following order: 6,7,5,8,4,9,3,10,2,11,1,12,13. The transition from Parabola into Schism blew my mind, as the plucks, probably dismissed by listeners as a drawn out rant of an ending, perfectly transition into the beginning of Schism. When you count out beats as the strings are plucked, Schism resumes with the same time signature and tempo - mirroring the progression of notes. The transition from Schism into Ticks & Leeches is equally intriguing. Schism ends with strong double-kick bass and tom smacks, and Ticks & Leeches begins with what many would call a 'tribal' drum beat. The beat at the very start of Ticks & Leeches is slightly different every subsequent time it is repeated - the measures are two beats longer. Yup - you guessed it - those two beats are ACTUALLY the last two beats of Schism.

I can honestly say that I never understood the album's fourth track, Mantra until reordering the album's songs. What I had originally heard as whale calls now had begun to resemble the worst imaginable dry heaves - or a stylized choking. Fitting, seeing as how the last line in Ticks & Leeches is "I hope you choke." After this transition, none of those following it really seemed to make much sense. I certainly didn't like that Disposition and Reflection had been seperated - as they sound quite good when played sequentially on the album. This was the only real roadblock in my disciphering of the Holy Gift. Then I had remembered what my friend had told me - 13 was in the middle. At the time, probably just wanting to believe that there was more to this cd, I had equated this to the positioning of the song "Intermission" on the previous release, Ænema.

For the song to be in the 'middle' of the album it would have to be the seventh track in sequence, here having six tracks on either side of it. So I inserted Faaip de Oiad after Lateralus, and almost peed my pants when I discovered that (ever-so-faintly) the fading tone of the last note of Lateralus could be heard in beginning of Faaip de Oiad, and how the distortion of the guitars at the tail end of Lateralus resembled, and later transitioned seamlessly into, the static at the beginning of Faaip de Oiad. The lyrics of Lateralus justify this break in the spiral, almost instructing: "spiral out, keep going, spiral out, keep going." I went back to Lateralus to find the next clue. In Danny Carey's amazingly competent Fibonacci sequence, he had stopped at 13 and gone back to 1. This is what I chose to do to finish the sequence. A second spiral was now constucted, and the order for the Holy Gift now became 6,7,5,8,4,9,13,1,12,2,11,3,10. Already many of you are probably fascinated at what I have revealed to you, but I can not even begin to tell you what this new order has opened up for me.

The beauty of Lateralus is very, very fragile and has to be viewed with a very open mind. It can also be different when looked at from different points of view. Aside from the fact that the new order of the songs places them in an order where they flow together nicely - often ending and resuming on the same notes or within the same progression, and some times - in the case of Lateralus into Faaip de Oiad and The Grudge into Triad - even overlapping (though admittadly sound much better when actually electronically overlapped, this is kind of cheating. Consider this a hint, however, if you plan on doing this yourself), the two spirals help to tell a story that every Tool fan should hear. In the interest of not boring the only casually intrigued, I will try to keep this very brief. I would also recommend familiarizing yourselves with Frissell's book (yeah - the one I mentioned earlier). I consider Parabol and Parabola to be quite expository. Maynard wants us to know that no matter what happens, we must all know that this is not our only existance. Our very minds and the contents of our subconscious are intended to be immortal, and if we accept this into our lives (be it because of personal or religious reasons), it will be so. As such, pain is an illusion. At first, I called it "The Lateralus Prophecy" (for reasons you will soon understand), but I have since decided to call the 'reordered' version of Lateralus "The Holy Gift". As Maynard says, "Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing," I take the word "this" to mean much more than just his simple cautioning.

Since Parabola is the second track of the Holy Gift, it can be considered at the beginning (esp. considering the context of it's duality with Parabol), and as such, I interpret Maynard's words as more than just clever lyrics in a song. They are a plead for his listeners to listen to everything he has to say and truly celebrate the chance of immortality offered throughout. I would be lying if I said that each song has a specific translation. On the contrary, Tool's music is designed to make you think, not say something specific. It must be treated like great literature - much is hidden contextually. I will elude to Geometric-Drumming's previous post, where he explains the time signatures of Schism: "It represents the title...it's arranged in 12/8 time which is SPLIT into 5/8 and 7/8 - which only really FITS as you PUT THE PIECES BACK TOGETHER." Where Geometric-Drumming claims Schism as his favorite Tool song, I have heard some fans say that it was a retched pick for the album's only single - but I think it was brilliant. Not to downplay the interpretations of those who have posted before me (in fact, I agree with much of what %BlueSoulRobot% has to say), but I think that to the casual listener who knows nothing of Tool, it can be a powerful invitation.

Think about it - a lot of dingbats with MTV and a radio would walk around with the words "I know the pieces fit" in their heads. I wonder how many of them took the time to put the pieces back together to (re)discover what is trying to be communicated

There's a Fibonacci in Maynard's lyrics, specifically the syllables:

black [1]

then [1]

white are [2]

all I see [3]

in my infancy [5]

red and yellow then came to be [8]

reaching out to me [5]

lets me see [3]

there is [2]

so [1]

much [1]

more and [2]

beckons me [3]

to look through to these [5]

infinite possibilities [8]

as below so above and beyond I imagine [13]

drawn outside the lines of reason [8]

push the envelope [5]

watch it bend [3]

I suppose it's not actually a true Fibonacci, since it does reverse itself. "

That article was both amazing and inspiring, and has given me another reason to love this band.

Too bad it's probably been posted in this thread about 90 times :(

Still, it's very intriguing. I have yet to try that order, but I plan on it now that I have read what it's supposed to reveal for sure.

[QUOTE=Street Spirit (Fade Out)]Too bad it's probably been posted in this thread about 90 times :([/QUOTE]
Do you honestly expect me to cycle through all 122 pages of this thread to find something that I didn't even know about until just now, and therefore wasn't looking for?

Christ. I'm sorry that the tampons aren't enough for you, buddy.

[QUOTE=BlindWriting]Do you honestly expect me to cycle through all 122 pages of this thread to find something that I didn't even know about until just now, and therefore wasn't looking for?

Christ. I'm sorry that the tampons aren't enough for you, buddy.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry about him, I'm glad it was posted because I've been wanting to read it but have been too lazy to search for it. :thumb:

[QUOTE=Street Spirit (Fade Out)]Too bad it's probably been posted in this thread about 90 times :([/QUOTE]

2 or 3 of which by me

not like thats something to be proud of, but i try

Well, we can all use a refresher once in a while.

I just tried playing the beginnings and endings of each song on Lateralus in that weird order. Since I was using iTunes I had to adjust the crossfade playback myself differently each time, but when it got it right, it worked.

And when it worked, it worked beautifully. :D

I'm not sure I get the whole idea behind the different track listing for Lateralus; I just love to listen to the CD..

So, I'm really into TOOL, but I don't know jack about some of the odd stuff people know/found out about the band or anything relating with them. Want to start a list of random facts you know on them perhaps others might not?

[QUOTE=BlindWriting]I just tried playing the beginnings and endings of each song on Lateralus in that weird order. Since I was using iTunes I had to adjust the crossfade playback myself differently each time, but when it got it right, it worked.

And when it worked, it worked beautifully. :D[/QUOTE]

yeah if u think about the order 7,6,8,5,9,4,13,10,3,11,2,12,1 try writing this on a piece of paper, you will notice that you can "spiral out". start with your pencil on tthe 13. then move it out in a spiral pattern. all of the number pairs equal 13. like the fibonacci sequence.

[QUOTE=BlindWriting]Christ. I'm sorry that the tampons aren't enough for you, buddy.[/QUOTE]
Thats pretty classic.*

*not really :upset:

If anyone wants Tool videos, both clips and live and hasn't read the 122 pages go to:

[url]http://www.musictelevisionsucks.net/search.php[/url].

Search for 'Tool' and your set.

The live videos on MTS are pretty poor quality though, I had great expectations for those videos and they just didn't follow through, even the sound quality isn't that great :upset:

[QUOTE='spiralout13']yeah if u think about the order 7,6,8,5,9,4,13,10,3,11,2,12,1 try writing this on a piece of paper, you will notice that you can "spiral out". start with your pencil on tthe 13. then move it out in a spiral pattern. all of the number pairs equal 13. like the fibonacci sequence.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand how the fibonnaci sequence is a spiral if you graph it, it seems to come out as an exponential function :confused:

(Sorry bout the double post)

i really honestly dont care which order i hear the songs in. there gonna be badass either way so why think harder than you have to.

[QUOTE=XyleM]I don't understand how the fibonnaci sequence is a spiral if you graph it, it seems to come out as an exponential function :confused:

(Sorry bout the double post)[/QUOTE]

If you have the song order like this: 7,6,8,5,9,4,13,10,3,11,2,12,1 you can start with a pencil at 13, and start drawing a spiral through each pair of number that equal 13. (9+4=13, 10+3=13, 8+5=13, 11+2=13, 7+6=13, 12+1=13.) I drew a picture of it below.

[url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/rockshowguy56/spiral.bmp[/url]

The only part I don't understand is how you guys got that order from the Fibanocci Sequence. That sequence is 1,1,2,3,5,8,13 etc. Where did all the other numbers come from?

those were from danny's drum beats?. listen to lateralus, 1,1,2,3,5,8,13...
listen to how many words or syllabuls(didnt spell that right) maynard uses in each particular line

i've heard that adam uses his synth as ten overdrive pedals inline for triad. is this true? i had crappy seats at the last tool show and could see what he was doing. any tips would help in getting my version to sound close to decent

[QUOTE=jamesclelland]those were from danny's drum beats?. listen to lateralus, 1,1,2,3,5,8,13...
listen to how many words or syllabuls(didnt spell that right) maynard uses in each particular line

i've heard that adam uses his synth as ten overdrive pedals inline for triad. is this true? i had crappy seats at the last tool show and could see what he was doing. any tips would help in getting my version to sound close to decent[/QUOTE]

Well, I heard that Danny's drumbeats actually didn't follow that sequence, just Maynard's lyrics. I've counted them out though, the syllables do form that sequence. I guess the drums beats go from 9 to 8 to 7 beats per measure, I haven't really tried counting this out yet though. Its in the toolfaq.

"Why can't I mosh to "Lateralus" correctly?

Unlike most songs, which stay in one time signature for at least two measures, track 9 on this album features a measure of nine beats, a measure of eight, then a measure of seven, repeating. This FAQ is not going to teach you how to count rhythms, but that will at least get you on your way." From the FAQ.

odd time sigs. if you cant headbang on a one, two, three... deal it's probably a screwy time sig.

does anybody think isis sounds alot like tool but with a little more death metal in them
tool+mastadon= isis check them out if you like both those bands

[quote]i've heard that adam uses his synth as ten overdrive pedals inline for triad. is this true? i had crappy seats at the last tool show and could see what he was doing. any tips would help in getting my version to sound close to decent[/quote]

That's the first real attempt at an explanation I've seen. Nobody seems to know how the hell he gets those tones out of his guitar in Triad.

What I want to know is how Justin gets those bass tones in the long outro of Lateralus. Someone said it was a fretless bass part, or a fretless simulator, but it doesn't sound like any fretless I've ever heard...

[QUOTE=The JoZ]That's the first real attempt at an explanation I've seen. Nobody seems to know how the hell he gets those tones out of his guitar in Triad.

What I want to know is how Justin gets those bass tones in the long outro of Lateralus. Someone said it was a fretless bass part, or a fretless simulator, but it doesn't sound like any fretless I've ever heard...[/QUOTE]

Yea I heard he got the tone by hooking his guitar up to a synth, I just don't know how.

As for Justin, I have no idea.

Are you guys referring to the triad solo?

Sorry if this is a stupid question..

I agree with the multiple pedals linked up for triad. it sounds close to whatever it is he uses, as when I linked up my pedal with a friends, then the amps distortion I got what sounded like Adam's contniuous feedback. However, god knows how he gets some of them tones.

[QUOTE=joas]I'm not sure I get the whole idea behind the different track listing for Lateralus; I just love to listen to the CD..

So, I'm really into TOOL, but I don't know jack about some of the odd stuff people know/found out about the band or anything relating with them. Want to start a list of random facts you know on them perhaps others might not?[/QUOTE]

MAYNARD:

Attended the United States Military Academy ("West Point") prep school. [1984]

Was offered a lead role in the film Panic Room (2002) by David Fincher himself, but turned it down due to commitments to his band Tool.

Son Devo born. [1995]

Co-founded music group A Perfect Circle with Billy Howerdel, a friend of his who also worked as a guitar technician for Nine Inch Nails. [1998]

Is a big fan of "The Kids in the Hall" (1989).

Attended Kendall College of Art and Design in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Was classmates with Gillian Anderson at Kendall University.

He is a big fan of Bill Hicks. In Tool's third album, there are many references to this great stand-up comic and they take excerpts from his performances.

Formerly engaged to Jennifer Brena Ferguson. (2003)

Bandmate of Adam Jones, Justin Chancellor, and Danny Carey.

He is a wine enthusiast, and has over 2000 bottles of wine in his house.

ADAM:
Can be seen on the Jurassic Park DVD, working on a model of a dinosaur. Exactly ten minutes into the documentary, he is shown adding small dots of clay to some sort of dinosaur.

Played in a band with Tom Morello called Electric Sheep while they were attending Libertyville High School in Illinois. The two would become musical contemporaries again in Los Angeles when Morello became the guitarist for Rage Against the Machine and Jones formed Tool.

Adam was schooled in straight makeup at the Studio Makeup Academy in Hollywood. He was a makeup artist, sculptor, set designer, and special effects designer for Rick Lazzarini's Character Shop and Stan Winston Studio.

and the other 2 guys, seem to have not as much, but thats that

woo, 300 posts

holy **** i havent been to this web site for like a few months (sadly) this thread was still a child it had like 10 posts

Tool is becoming quite popular where i live : )
i believe i started it
HICK COUNTY

[QUOTE=Adam Jones is GOD]I agree with the multiple pedals linked up for triad. it sounds close to whatever it is he uses, as when I linked up my pedal with a friends, then the amps distortion I got what sounded like Adam's contniuous feedback. However, god knows how he gets some of them tones.[/QUOTE]

i wonder if you can use your synth in two different ways at once. that might help produce some of the tones are aren't created by wah and feedback. that or the epilady he uses has some kind of motor in it. i know that motors against pickups do crazy ****.

After reading the last two pages, i'm even more amazed by Tool. Now i feel like listening to them. wow

[QUOTE=guitrguy]im not into tool that much. but i do like the song sober, and from the tool videos ive seen they strike as pretty weird but, i still think manyard is a good songwriter..... and one more thing i heard maynard is a necropheliac is that true???[/QUOTE]

Lol no its not true, yeh there music videos are very artsy. Adam jones the guitarist produces the videos.

Their videos make no fu[color=white]c[/color]king sense.

And no, Maynard is not into necrophelia.

Lateralus & the Qabala

I have posted this before, but for new toolites & those who enjoy the mystic of Tools "magick music":

[URL=http://www.toolpantheon.com/lateralus_meanings.htm]The Correlation between "Lateralus" & the Qabala[/URL]

I think the albums have infinite meanings, correlating to the listeners' level of experiences. Somehow, after words, the many different interpretations seem to hold a genuine essence. The above link has some specific information for those interested in the "Lateralus" Album and the connection to the achetypes, the tarot, qabala, tree of life, ect. :thumb:

Also, to a former post about the range of musical diffculty between band members... All pieces demand the same concentration. Carey could cast a spell with every beat. Keenan manipulates his own beautiful instrament, vocal chords. Binded with Jones and Chancellor, Tool is a machine. Like an engine of ....I'll let you fill in the blank. I think that they are completely equal. Check out that link above, and research the stuff you dont recognize, knowing will help you expand your creativity.

A little research to give more insight into the world of Adam, and some kinda explanation about his epilady effect. The original question was if he felt inadequate as a guitar player at times:

[QUOTE]
AJ: Yeah, absolutely. I am not a technical guy. I mean, you
see these guys from GIT, or wherever, and they know 50
different chord progressions in C(min)maj7. I’m not there. I
like Frank Zappa, and Ry Cooder and Stevie Ray Vaughn and
Jimi Hendrix and all those guys, but after a while the lead
guitar thing started boring me. So I never really went there,
and it wasn’t important to me to practice scales. So in that
respect, I feel really inadequate. If there’s some really good
guitarist in the audience, and I know he’s watching me, I just
go, “God, he must think I suck!” I play from my gut, and
play as passionately as I can, but I’m not a very good guitar
player, comparatively. I’m really just into what we do, and I
love writing riffs, and I love challenging myself to play in a
different time than Danny’s playing on drums, and trying to
figure out something over the top of it that sounds really
cool. But as far as being able to fluidly solo over something,
I’m not into it. That’s why on some solos I’ll pick up an
Epilady, one of those things ladies use to rip out their hair. It
has this revolving, figure8, guitar-like string one it; I keep
my on it to stop the motor, and it goes, “rrrrr,” and then I
can let it go “reeeh” [gradually increases pitch]. Using delay,
and other kinds of effects, it can be really powerful.[/QUOTE]

And then explaining why:
[QUOTE]
AJ: To be honest, I saw Dave Navarro do a solo with a
vibrator once, and it was kind of cool. I didn’t have a vibrator
around – I’m sure Dave has several! Just kidding. [laughs].
But I started putting electrical things up to the guitar and
getting really cool results. I got one of those old hand
massagers, and I could hold the motor and control it. Buzz
from the Melvins showed me you could take a remote from
your TV, hold it to your pickup, and make your guitar
go “beep, boop, beep” – you get different tone right from the
pickup. Then you put some flange and delay on, and it
sounds great.[/QUOTE]

How doeds he use the epilady? My assumption was he uses the tweezing things to pluck the string multiple times :confused: