Unfortunately that's true what RollerQueen says. When ATC and a few others come out with work I always make a point of looking at them.

Meh... I haven't written in a while, the impending exams are putting music on hold, but I have some gigs in july and I want at least one new song to add to the setlist.

Minimum wage here in Hawaii is $6.75. But the cost of living is high due to the fact everything needs to be shipped in.

So I've been listening to my favorite bands lately and while the music is [i]amazing[/i], oftentimes the lyrics are not. And I wonder if maybe some of us are missing the forest for the trees in a sense. The work here tends to be really descriptive, but I have a hard time seeing most of it put to music.

I don't mean to suggest that I'm a better writer than the regulars here, because I really don't feel that way, but I just wonder if the emphasis people put on imagery is a bit excessive. I'm guilty of making similar comments, but lately I'm starting to think (and write) differently.

The beatles weren't known for writing great lyrics, but of course the music is great and I wonder if it could've been any other way. Could the music work with [i]"improved"[/i] lyrics? I'm inclined to say that the lyrics don't need to be improved if they communicate exactly what the writer intended. And maybe Beatle's lyrics did that, however strange. Who knows. They'd get ripped to pieces here, though. :D

To that I say, Maxwell's Silver Hammer.

:smash:

[i]"Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da, life goes on, bra! La La, how the life goes on!"[/i]

[QUOTE=slack]:smash:

[i]"Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da, life goes on, bra! La La, how the life goes on!"[/i][/QUOTE]
Best line ever.

I kind of see where you're coming from, Slack, and it's always been something I've tried to avoid... I'm not a fan of those pieces where the descriptive imagery goes overboard to the point of being incomprehensible, not to mention difficult to put a tune to.
I guess it's all down to what the writer wants - if they want to write something that's going to have the listener humming it all day and singing along on the radio, then that's going to turn out markedly different to a piece where the writer wants to raise the hairs on the back of the neck of the reader/listener by using beautiful language and images... by nature those two things are very different.

I'm certain that at least a good proportion of the biggest hits of the past 30+ years would be ripped a new one in this forum, simply because we are lyrically based, as opposed to musically based. As the only way we have of influencing the readers is by the words we place on the screen, the only real way of impressing the readers is your lyrical content.

Of course, there are plenty of decent bands out there who write excellent lyrics and fit them to music extremely well. I guess it's all down to what your particular flavour is... there's a n00b running around at the moment (Tears Of Tragedy or something) and he's writing in an almost carbon copy of Fall Out Boy's style... that's not going to get him particularly high marks here, but as far as he's concerned, that's the music he enjoys, and that's the music he wants to write... therefore I guess that technically, he's not doing that bad a job, even though I chewed him out for it, as it wasn't something that appealed to me. It's all a big game of opinions, really.

I think a lot of it may have to do with the approach we, the readers, take to the lyrics. A lot of the fantastic poems posted on these boards are really not great lyrics in the lyrical sense; they're not suggestive of singing. Yes, they can be sung, but their meter and structure alone don't push them to be sung vs being spoken in a dramatic fashion. To me, great lyrics don't just convey a story or message or image, they scream "I'm lyrics! Don't read me, sing me!"

The poets who avoid rhyme may be able to create very powerful emotion, but I think they're hurting their chances at creating powerful songs. Don't get me wrong, a few of my favorite songs don't contain rhyme... but most do, and the very best ones have non-intrusive rhyme that makes the flow predictable to the ear and tongue.

I think this might have something to do with a lot of the tastes of some of the regular writers here. A lot of the poems/lyrics I see look like something Circle Takes the Square might come up with and in that sort of music you don't really need much flow in the conventional sense of poetic form.

Meh. I know that my writing isn't necessarily conducive to easy musical translation. Oh well. I pride myself in at least half-decent lyrics and different music. I just need to learn how to come up with vocal lines.

I think it's all about finding that balance. A truly great song is one where the lyrics are as strong as the music, as opposed to a great or memorable song. The way I see it, not only must the instruments bring something to the table but the lyrics must put words to the sum of the parts. Ask yourself this- by singing 'Goodbye, I hate you, at night, I'll rape you' over whatever song you've got, are you doing the music a service? If your music's mediocre and that's the sort of song you want, then fine, that's entirely your call. You guys talked of the Beatles, I for one would say they've got some awesome lyricism. Lyricism is not just making words rhyme or not rhyme, it's about making the reader go 'yes, this is organic and natural and the way it should be'.

For example, after this set of lyrics,

[I]I just can't get you out of my head
Boy your loving is all i think about
i just can't get you out of my head
Boy it's more than I dare to think about [/I]

would anything but what follows feel organic?
[I]La la la la la la la la la la la
La la la [/I]

That Kylie Minogue's songwriters used that does not make them bad lyricists. It makes them awesome. Would I rip it apart? Not really. Imagery is not necessary. Rhyme is not necessary. Sometimes, flow isn't necessary. Whatever you judge things by, chances are it's not necessary but you use those anyways because that's how connections are made. If you can convey a sense of being organic and natural to the reader, you've done your job as a lyricist.

And those that say the more imagery there is, the less chances of it fitting would be wrong imo. The thing about words is that they have syllables that can be manipulated in a lot of ways. A song that goes

[I]When I blacked out in the winter months of Capricorn
I had a strange dream that I lived a thousand winter's gone
A thousand winter's faded gray and shuttered by the wind
To tell the tale of Lydia, her legacy begins uprising
Unveiling the absurdity in the tragedy of man
And it's hero the all seeing worm[/I]

stands no less chance of being a great song than

[I]We make you feel safe when you feel warm
That's when I rise, that's when I crawl.
Gliding on mist, hardly a sound
Bringing the kiss, evil's abound
In the dead of night, love bites.
In the dead of night, love bites.[/I]

Every lyric I've ever posted has been made into a song and while I can't say I rhyme much, there's more to flow than rhyme and simplicity. Lyrics don't scream anything because anything can be sung. You'll notice how easy it is to sing the instructions to a pack of microwavable food as well as how easy it is to read dramatically the lyrics to a Paul Simon song. Words are flexible. Let's not forget that.

I have the lyric/music problem. If I try and write decent lyrics, I just can't make them work with music. And then if I get decent music, I find it hard to get good lyrics to go with it. Meh :grumpy:

Yeah, good points all around. Comments like [i]"Lack of imagery"[/i] or [i]"Lack of Flow[/i][b]™[/b][i]"[/i] just seem to be a staple of critiques anymore, and it's kind of irritating. I suppose that's a given, though, since we're judging lyrics without the accompanying music and there probably isn't much else to nitpick. [quote]Imagery is not necessary. Rhyme is not necessary. Sometimes, flow isn't necessary. Whatever you judge things by, chances are it's not necessary but you use those anyways because that's how connections are made. [u]If you can convey a sense of being organic and natural to the reader, you've done your job as a lyricist.[/u][/quote]Great point.

You guys should check out [i]Bravery Repetition and Noise[/i] if you haven't already. Amazing album. :)

... At the risk of looking silly, I ask, 'Who is it by?' ...



EDIT: Ah Ha! Thank-you google for enlightening me... ;)

Downloading some sample songs now.

Grrr... crappy exams combined with gale force winds and driving sheets of rain in May make Jake an unhappy guy. Due to the exams I won't be writing much, but afterwards I've got a month of civilisation free trekking in Peru (some aid work too in which I have to do some teaching work and prepare an entertainment evening or something for a village in the middle of nowhere) where I get to climb the Andes, see Machipichu (sp?) and run away from the millions of lethal animals/insects there to give me inspiration.

Ah, jealousy.

Have fun man. :)

Hello guys. I'm working on more material for when I return and take what's mine, alo known as the first posting spot in this thread... of course, not doing it through spam... but through... you know. KNOWLEDGE!

Anyway..

[QUOTE=Herbivirirator]I have the lyric/music problem. If I try and write decent lyrics, I just can't make them work with music. And then if I get decent music, I find it hard to get good lyrics to go with it. Meh :grumpy:[/QUOTE]

Focus on both, maybe? And then work them out together somehow?

That does the trick for me.

[QUOTE=Tojes]Hello guys. I'm working on more material for when I return and take what's mine, alo known as the first posting spot in this thread... of course, not doing it through spam... but through... you know. KNOWLEDGE![/QUOTE]

That statement caused me to check my own posting spot... I had no idea I'd posted so much in here... I really need to get out more! :eek:

Oh, well, you know.

I'm taking piano lessons now. Well, on the 31st. It's going to be awesome. I might actually figure out what the hell I'm doing. :D

I play piano with my right hand. That's how awesome I am.

I wish I'd stuck with piano.... I got bored :-/

That's when you start torturing the piano to make it less boring. John Cage would be proud, really.

I don't think I would have stuck with it if I was younger. Nowadays, piano is just one on a list of instruments I'd like to learn.

Next, harmonica! :D

Slack, you happen to be from central Minnesota?

TyTy finds a new friend...

[QUOTE=slack]I don't think I would have stuck with it if I was younger. Nowadays, piano is just one on a list of instruments I'd like to learn.

Next, harmonica! :D[/QUOTE]

Grr... crappy English universities. So I want to do Music at uni. However, despite the fact that with enough work I'll nail an A at A level and get good grades, plus play two classical instruments (violin and clarinet) to grade 8 standard (the standard you need to teach the instrument for an offical Associated Board Music school, i.e. good), play guitar to a high standard, sing and am involved in numerous music groups for the local town and so on, apparently because I don't play piano to grade 5+ and can't sight read a piece of that standard on request at an audition all good unis won't even consider my application.

[QUOTE=slack]I don't think I would have stuck with it if I was younger. Nowadays, piano is just one on a list of instruments I'd like to learn.

Next, harmonica! :D[/QUOTE]

I dabble in harmonica.

I have a blues scale tuned harmonica and a C major diatonic but I haven't really bothered practicing them. Maybe I'll take one to Peru with me, it'll be something to do in the evenings.

[QUOTE=metaliq]Slack, you happen to be from central Minnesota?[/QUOTE]Nebraska. :upset:

[QUOTE=slack]Nebraska. :upset:[/QUOTE]

Ah. Hahhaha.

Well, I met someone that day, who is from the midwest, who just began taking Piano lessons as well, so I was like "ODD!!!!!".

[QUOTE=slack]So I've been listening to my favorite bands lately and while the music is [i]amazing[/i], oftentimes the lyrics are not. And I wonder if maybe some of us are missing the forest for the trees in a sense. The work here tends to be really descriptive, but I have a hard time seeing most of it put to music.

I don't mean to suggest that I'm a better writer than the regulars here, because I really don't feel that way, but I just wonder if the emphasis people put on imagery is a bit excessive. I'm guilty of making similar comments, but lately I'm starting to think (and write) differently.

The beatles weren't known for writing great lyrics, but of course the music is great and I wonder if it could've been any other way. Could the music work with [i]"improved"[/i] lyrics? I'm inclined to say that the lyrics don't need to be improved if they communicate exactly what the writer intended. And maybe Beatle's lyrics did that, however strange. Who knows. They'd get ripped to pieces here, though. :D[/QUOTE]

I think a lot of people are missing the fact that lyrics are supposed to be a part of music instead of just a poem. Me and members of my band have passed up a lot of brilliant lyrics because they didnt fit with the style we wanted.

[QUOTE=sjada]I think a lot of people are missing the fact that lyrics are supposed to be a part of music instead of just a poem. Me and members of my band have passed up a lot of brilliant lyrics because they didnt fit with the style we wanted.[/QUOTE]

Well obviously you're band is terrible.

Hmm. Thats kind of harsh but okay...

I guess I should have specified that I was talking about the content of the lyrics as opposed to flow or whatever, just because music written for lyrics without their own musical quality is going to be confined to the room the lyrics give it for creativity. I guess you could have misinterpereted that, anyway.

[QUOTE=pixiesfanyo]Well obviously you're band is terrible.[/QUOTE]
Sort of like you are English.

oh but he was only joking
only joking kind of but not really?

Jayrad has watched [I]Kids[/I] too many times and has used tampons to drink juice. Don't mind him if he's out of it from time to time. Most of the bands in here probably suck anyway, so don't get too upset, and don't call your own material "brilliant." :)

Not mine actually, my friend does most of the writing for the band.

Who [i]hasn't[/i] used tampons to drink juice?