[QUOTE=Aes820]There is no set rule. Monitor power depends on the size of the stage area, the complexity of the monitoring setup, and the bands own onstage volume.
But, I think you'll be pretty right with 100 watt monitors.

My band uses our old practise PA for monitors.
You know those little 4 channel 100 watt powered mixers that you can get on musiciansfriend for a couple of hundred bucks? They do the job for us.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, any good stage will require at least 300 watts for the monitors. If you're a small band playing small stages, then yes 100 is fine, but if you have more than 3 people, I say step it up to at least 300 watts. It doesn't have to be crystal clear so you won't be spending tons of money on a setup.

[QUOTE=Johnny 5]I disagree, any good stage will require at least 300 watts for the monitors. If you're a small band playing small stages, then yes 100 is fine, but if you have more than 3 people, I say step it up to at least 300 watts. It doesn't have to be crystal clear so you won't be spending tons of money on a setup.[/QUOTE]

How big is a "Decent" stage? I think that a 100w monitor near to each person would be enough on any stage.

hi aes,

I guess I'm asking on behalf of my Dad, but now he's explained it me me I guess I don't get it either.

Why does micing up an amp sound better than just using the line out going straight to PA? The way my Dad put it was along the lines of

[QUOTE=moaner's dad]You go guitar --> pre-amp ---> [COLOR=Red]power amp--> Speaker --> mic -->[/COLOR] (Mixer) -->poweramp --->speakers.

surely the part in red only degrades sound quality, as going through an unneccessary mic just increases unwanted distortion? Its really repeating what happens through the PA. [/QUOTE]
So why does micing up (supposedly?) sound better?

[QUOTE=Johnny 5]I disagree, any good stage will require at least 300 watts for the monitors. If you're a small band playing small stages, then yes 100 is fine, but if you have more than 3 people, I say step it up to at least 300 watts. It doesn't have to be crystal clear so you won't be spending tons of money on a setup.[/QUOTE]
Our FOHs are 2 x 300 watts. And we only use 'em for vocals. Our own backline is loud enough for many gigs.
If I were micing up everything, and playing larger venues. Then of course we would need something larer.

[QUOTE=moaner]So why does micing up (supposedly?) sound better?[/QUOTE]
Because you are capturing to sound of the amp's power section and the speaker.
A line out is just a signal taken from direct from the amp's preamp, ran through a very small internal Solid State (Opamp) amplifier (perhap 1-2 watts) and then taken to the PA.

The sound of the power section (especially a tube power section) is where most of the good sounding stuff comes from out of the amp. And then you've got the tonal characteristics of the speaker and the cabinet to pick up also.
Micing it up is usually better.
But it depends on the quality of the mic, the amp, the PA, etc.

[QUOTE=moaner]How big is a "Decent" stage? I think that a 100w monitor near to each person would be enough on any stage.[/QUOTE]

Dimension? I have no idea, but a bar that actually has a stage as opposed to setting up on the floor in the corner. You should have more than 100 watts. To give you an idea, in my last band we ran 4 monitors with over 500 watts in each. Eventually we moved on to IEMs, but until then we were using a good amount of power. We played one club that had over 20,000 watts running the monitors alone. It was a little overkill, but sounded amazing.

[QUOTE=Johnny 5]Dimension? I have no idea, but a bar that actually has a stage as opposed to setting up on the floor in the corner. You should have more than 100 watts. To give you an idea, in my last band we ran 4 monitors with over 500 watts in each. Eventually we moved on to IEMs, but until then we were using a good amount of power. We played one club that had over 20,000 watts running the monitors alone. It was a little overkill, but sounded amazing.[/QUOTE]

No, I've played in a venue with a fairly cosy stage, but it wasn't just setting up in the corner, no way. We had 2 100w monitors at the front, more than enough, a freinds band was ona stage 3x the size, still only had 3 ~150w monitors. 20 000w of monitoring? You are utterly crazy. Most monitors only come as 100w anyway, 200w max. Even 4x500w monitors is as an absolute limit twice the wattage you could ever use. Jesus due, you wouldn't have 20 000W of FOH anywhere short of a stadium.

And it "sounded amazing"? Yup, the monitoring really rocked.

[QUOTE=moaner]No, I've played in a venue with a fairly cosy stage, but it wasn't just setting up in the corner, no way. We had 2 100w monitors at the front, more than enough, a freinds band was ona stage 3x the size, still only had 3 ~150w monitors. 20 000w of monitoring? You are utterly crazy. Most monitors only come as 100w anyway, 200w max. Even 4x500w monitors is as an absolute limit twice the wattage you could ever use. Jesus due, you wouldn't have 20 000W of FOH anywhere short of a stadium.

And it "sounded amazing"? Yup, the monitoring really rocked.[/QUOTE]


True, it was this place in Long Island, I thought the same thing when the guy was explaining it to me. Granted they didn't push the thing to deafen us, and I'm not 100% it was really 20,000 watts or just alot of talk, but the clarity of those speakers I've yet to hear again anywhere. It was quite the system. But yeah, no one ever needs that. I guess it mainly depends on how loud your band is then. I like to have alot of headroom. I don't think I've ever pushed my monitors up to the 500 mark, but I like to know that if I need it, it's there. Especially for outdoor shows. But we built our monitors from 12" mains that we were replacing.

Hi, my band is looking at getting this setup for our first PA:

1. Nady XA-900 Pro Stereo Power Amp (300W @ 4 ohms)
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_id/60180[/url]

2.Eurorack UB1202 Mixer
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_id/88618[/url]

3.2 Nady PS112 12" 300W 2-Way Full-Range Speakers
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/609000/[/url]

We're trying to save money, but would this equipment be too cheap, too poor quality? We also might consider these, would they be a better choice?

Kustom KPM8420 PA Package
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/630544/[/url]

or

Passport P-250 Portable Sound System
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/480616/[/url]

We want something somewhat inexpensive, but still a decent quality
Thanks for the help

Getting the tree bits seperate would be good if you plan on upgrading at a later time. You can add on things easier and replace things easier. (for example, you can buy a larger mixer while keeping the same poweramp + speakers)

The packaged setups is good because it also includes speaker stands, microphones, and the powered mixer has more power. And it seems to be very reasonably priced.

Hmm, If I were you I would go for the Kuston packaged setup. Just because it is good value for money. And seems to have everything you need in it.
Including some other fairly nice features as part of the powered mixer that you wont get on the other setup.
For the looks of it, it should do an alright job.
It'll be simpler to setup and use (not having to worry about loadings off the poweramp). And those Nady speakers on their own have seem to have gotten some bad reviews.

Yeah i was kinda thinking the same. I was kinda worried about the Nady speakers because of their bad reviews, too, and the fender is a good quality but not a whole lot of wattage. It seems like the Kustom would be a fairly decent quality w/ ample wattage. Thanks for the help and I'm open to suggestions from other people, too.

We are badly in need of a PA. We'd like to get a kit, becuase we don't want to blow a lot of money away on a fancy PA system. We saw a Kustom kit with an 80W mixer and 2-10'' speakers for $200. For the same price, there is one from AudioChoice/SoundTech with a 100W mixer, and 2-10'' speakers. It also includes calbles and a mic. We don't really need the mic. Those are the 2 packages were looking at. We saw other ones, but we don't want to spend over $400 if possible. Any feedback would be great.

Either of those packages would be suitable for practising and jamming.
Perhaps if you were wanting to get something that'll last longer, and stand up to some larger gigs (if you ever get to that stage) you may be better off investing a few more dollars. But it is up to you.

Okay, im thinking the custom cus i read some reviews of both. We really only need to run vocals and 1 guitar thru the pa. Perharps our setup will help you give me some info.
Drums -standard, no amplification needed. Hes loud.
Bass 100W amp.
Guitar 1 30W amp
guitar 2 15W amp.

we need to run 3 mics. 1 lead and 2 backup.
For mics i was going to get this berhinger 3 pack for like $60 bucks. they say its on par with the SM58 from shure.

Does that help?

Mics are handy. But you'll still need mic cables.
I don't really want to make a decision for you. Get whatever suits your budget.

But with that said, I think you may be better off getting something a little bigger than that Kustom. Sure, it may be plenty enough at this stage, and it will be. But when you get to the stage of upgrading then you'll already have the PA to suit.

I have an idea of a mixer to get, but i don't know what speakers or monitors to get with that, with the handling of watts, ohms, and such. I'll ask around. Thanks Aes.

Just match the ohms and the power handling as bet you can. And you'll be right.

Thanks again Aes. If it weren't for you, I'd be lost.

Hello everybody, I am a singer for a four-piece band. We play mostly classic rock and blues. My guitarist and I have been practicing together for a little while now, but we're getting together with the rest of the band (bassist, drummer, maybe keyboard) and I need to buy a PA system that will hold up.

We're not concerned with gigging at the moment, but enough power to handle small gigs would be ideal. The system would be used primarily for rehersal. As a high school kid I'm not rich, and I only have about $800 to spend on everything.

The system I was thinking about was:

- Behringer Europower PMX660M powered mixer
- 2 Peavy PR 15 2-way cabinets

Is that all I would need, or do I need monitors or something? I'm pretty new to all this sound stuff, so I'm not really sure what I'm talking about :-) . I would really appreciate any advice, opinions, suggestions, etc. you guys could give me.

I would really appreciate any help, thanks a lot!

I'd reccomend going for a packaged setup. Where you get stuff like mics, speaker stands and cables also included.

But yeah, that powered mixer you mentioned should do the job. And alot of newer models like those allow for splitting so you can dedicate half of it for monitors.. Even tho you may not need monitors at this stage, it'll be handy to have it if you ever get to the stage of upgrading in the future...

I think a setup like this would be the way to go.
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630544/[/url]

It need not be exactally that, or exactally that brand.
Perhaps if you ask at a local music store, and tell them what you are looking for in a packaged setup. They may be able to do you a good deal.

Aes, is it possible for a lead to become microphonic? I have a guiar lead that, when brushed gainst a hard floor, makes a quite audible noise that I would think sounds like a lead brushing against the floor would, through my amp. Its not a cheap lead either. any ideas?

The lead may have been damaged by people walking on it continually. Leads shouldn't make noise.

[QUOTE=Aes820]The lead may have been [B]damaged by people walking on it[/B] continually. Leads shouldn't make noise.[/QUOTE]

that sounds more than likely.

thanks.

Hey Aes820,
It's me again, a P.A. noob asking you another question. Okay, as you may have remembered, I posted earlier some questions about a 2x200 watt p.a. system consisting of two 200 watt kustom speakers and an alesis mixer and a 400 watt power amp. Anyway, we're having bad feedback, but thats because of $10 dollar radio shack mics, but that is entirely irrelevant. My problem is, when we go live, we have no monitors to hear ourselves and I don't feel like having to spend 300 bucks on a new power amp (and a speaker) so I'm asking for a solution. My questions: A powered speaker already has wattage power right? Can we use a powered speaker and run it from one of the out's from one of the kustom speakers? If not, what do you suggest we do. I've been eyeballing this 100 watt powered speaker at musicians friend [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=speakers/search/detail/base_pid/601713/[/url] and am wondering if I'm on the right track. Thank you for your help.



[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=speakers/search/detail/base_pid/601713/[/url]

Hey Aes820,
It's me again, a P.A. noob asking you another question. Okay, as you may have remembered, I posted earlier some questions about a 2x200 watt p.a. system consisting of two 200 watt kustom speakers and an alesis mixer and a 400 watt power amp. Anyway, we're having bad feedback, but thats because of $10 dollar radio shack mics, but that is entirely irrelevant. My problem is, when we go live, we have no monitors to hear ourselves and I don't feel like having to spend 300 bucks on a new power amp (and a speaker) so I'm asking for a solution. My questions: A powered speaker already has wattage power right? Can we use a powered speaker and run it from one of the out's from one of the kustom speakers? If not, what do you suggest we do. I've been eyeballing this 100 watt powered speaker at musicians friend [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=speakers/search/detail/base_pid/601713/[/url] and am wondering if I'm on the right track. Thank you for your help.

sorry about the double post... :(

Yes. Powered speakers have built in amplifiers.

You can buy a couple of them, and run them off the 'line-out' of your powered mixer.
[B]Do not[/B] run them off the main Kustom speakers you've already got.

Adjust their volume by adjusting the powered mixers line-out volume level. So you can set them independant of the main speakers.

They should be daisy chainable, so you can connect one up to the other in a line. You can have up to as many as you want, or can afford.

The good thing about powered speakers is that they are usually 'biamped'. which means they split your signal into highs and lows and amplify each seperately.
This means that these speakers can be much more efficient than they would otherwise.
Hence their ability to push up to 109dB. Where you may otherwise be struggling to get 103dB out of a similar non-biamped setup.

Powered speakers are very handy to use as add ons. They can sometimes be outrightly expensive, but they are simple to use and very much worth it.
But, as always, watch for clipping.
Hopefully those speakers would have peak or clip indicators on them.
You should make sure that these peak light never light up, otherwise you may risk damage to the speaker cone.

thanks again Aes820

AES,

Heres what I need stuff to power:
An ELECTRO VOICE RE2 WIRELESS MIC SYSTEM
Core Hot Spot Powered PA Vocal Monitor
1 SHURE SM58 Wired Mic for back up
In Ear System

OPTIONAL
Bass, 2 guitars, drums

Heres what im looking at could you tell me if any of this stuff will work and if it will power any of the optional stuff, AND if I need anything else?

MIXER:
These 3 are in my price range:
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631231/[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631229/[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/634264/[/url]



Power Amps
I know nothing about them. Could you give me a link to the absolute cheapest one you can find that would do the job? Thank you

I'll reccomend the first mixer out of those options.
This one: [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631231/[/url]
It's got more than enough inputs for what you need. (although may be stretched if you ever want to get to a stage of micing the drums).
And it's got several auxillery outputs so you can run those in-ear and wedge monitors off it easilly enough. As well as the added advantages of the built in FX.

For a poweramp, may I suggest this: [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=amps/search/detail/base_pid/480696/[/url]
2x 500 watts or so while at 4 ohms, should be enough for some medium 'pub' sized gigs.

Then, the speakers. Something like these:
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/s=speakers/search/detail/base_pid/601388/[/url]

Can someone tell if this pa is any good for practicing in a band with. We dont really play loud since my dad is always home when we play, and Im not planning on using it to play out with unless have to. I just wanna if I can practice with it, like have it so the band I play with can play along with a song if I hooked it up to a cd player, or how well it would do for a gig. I dont have a lot of money so if you could suggest some other ones that are btter for the money it would be really appreiciated.

[url]http://www.music123.com/SoundTech-S20-i131742.music[/url]

Thanks a lot guys.

k, i have a mixer, so i'm gunna get a power amp and speakers...how would the following sound?

[url]http://www.behringer.com/EP1500/index.cfm?lang=ENG[/url]

and

[url]http://www.venuemusic.com.au/Products.asp?ProdID=5441[/url]

thankyou

[QUOTE=FenderSRX]Can someone tell if this pa is any good for practicing in a band with. We dont really play loud since my dad is always home when we play, and Im not planning on using it to play out with unless have to. I just wanna if I can practice with it, like have it so the band I play with can play along with a song if I hooked it up to a cd player, or how well it would do for a gig. I dont have a lot of money so if you could suggest some other ones that are btter for the money it would be really appreiciated.

[url]http://www.music123.com/SoundTech-S20-i131742.music[/url]

Thanks a lot guys.[/QUOTE]
That'll be plently for practising at home. It should be fine for jamming and perhaps even some small (house party) sized gigs.
Obviously, it is only a cheap model. But it is good if you are on a tight budget. And should be more than enough to do the job.

[QUOTE=theabstract]k, i have a mixer, so i'm gunna get a power amp and speakers...how would the following sound?

[url]http://www.behringer.com/EP1500/index.cfm?lang=ENG[/url]

and

[url]http://www.venuemusic.com.au/Products.asp?ProdID=5441[/url]

thankyou[/QUOTE]

It should be alright. I'm guessing those speakers are 8 ohms each. and you may get 2x 300 watts or so out of that poweramp. So you will be overpowering you speakers slightly. So just keep your mixers volume down so as to not damage the speakers.

But. I think it may be a better idea to look for some more suitably matched speakers. Something that can handle the power from the amp better.

Or, you could get another set of speakers and run them in parrallel with those other ones you are looking at.
While doing it this way, If both sets of speakers are 8 ohms, then this will reduce your ohm loading down to 4 ohms. So you will not only get an increase in power output from the amp, but with the added speaker area you will also get more overall loudness out of that setup.

Just make sure you choose speaker cabinets with a power handling suitable for the power that is supplied from the poweramp. While baring in mind how loud you are going to be running the setup.

Aes,
Need your help really quick again. I am looking at buying this. Please tell me if this is all compatiable and if this would power my wireless mic, in ears, and monitor, and if it would work for anything else. Thanks

[url]http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemID=32737&TempID=4&STRID=203547&Method=3&CategoryID=1015&BrandID=0&PriceRangeID=0&PageNum=0&DepartmentID=5&DepartmentKeeper=5&pagesize=10&SortMethod=3&Word1=&Contains=&Search_Type=SEARCH&GroupCode=nonetodaythanks[/url]

[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631229/[/url]

That one is very similar to the one you posted above, it has a couple less inputs and a couple less features. But it still should be plently for what you need it to do.

You wont have enough channels to mic up drums + guitar tho. But it will be plenty for what you mentioned above.

Ok thanks a lot

Right, a question I hope will be relatively easy to answer...

My band is now trialling singers, and since we've never had cause to use mics yet, we're going to have a problem on thursday when we come to test out the singer...

Now, with my last band, we figured that with a cheap mic and an old 10W amp, it was perfectly possible to use that as a 'cheat' P.A.

Now I know that might not do the amp a whole lot of good, and probably won't sound ace, but excluding buying a PA (for £180 absolute minimum this close to christmas? You're having a laugh....) are there any other options at all?

see if you can get hold of a keyboard amp, those are often used for convininent PAs.

another hare brained scheme?
 

I'm thinking of getting a behringer v-amp. The cab modelling is meant to be really good, and since I'm no tonehwore and can't afford a tube amp really, I figured I might see about having my normal setup straight to PA. however, I still want somehting to jam with, so i need somehting to amp it. Would it be practical to use a standard stage monitor as a cheap all enclosed amp for jamming, backyard sized gigs, playing around at parties and the like? I know monitors only spread he sound around 10 m or so, but that suits me fine- anywhere bigger than that would be using full PA anyway. If you put a monitor on its side, does it project the sound outwards better?

Alternatively, i might be able to get hold of a cheap PA anyway. Do 10" speakers give sufficient bass response for guitar?