[quote=Seafroggys;18395110]I'm pretty much with you on that. A $30 mic preamp...hell, any audio equipment worth $30 can hold virtually no value at all. That's like something you may sell at a garage sale for $5, a price you suggested. Maybe even less.[/quote]


Whoops, guess I was too subtle with that one. I was trying to suggest $15 (i.e., 50% street price) if the thing was [I]brand new[/I] (as in 31-90 days old). Once you can't prove that the thing is in pristine condition and fresh from the factory (or you hit day 91), then we really are talking like $5-10 tops.

Man I've been involved with an interesting potential client, whom I will probably no longer want to work with due to the overall......strangeness of not just her mysterious behavior, but of her music as well and the overall presentation of her music.

My studio is meant for me mostly, I'm not really set up for commercial work (parent's garage is not an ideal setting to make money and an image) but I do browse on craigs for small time things that would probably fit my studio environment.

So on Feb 13 I see a post of a female singer looking for a place to record her vocals for less than $20 an hour. She already has the music but just needs to sing over it. She's asking for a pretty low rate, but considering its just for recording vocals (which is relatively straight forward as far as setup and such is concerned) that I offered her a rate of $15 an hour. Yes, that is lower than I believe that work, and less than double my day job, but hey something is better than nothing. I figured it may be some karoke work she wants to do or something.

There were no other details in her post, no links to music mind you.

Next day she sends me a response asking me what software I use and a link to her music (a myspace link). Even though I've shown other people on the internet her myspace, I'll follow Moseph's example and not link it. What I got was very.......interesting, to say the least. First off, her Myspace looked like a typical myspace page (i.e. bad layouts). Secondly, the picture of her on the myspace.....I am not one to judge people on their appearence, but she looked like a $10 prostitute. Very trashy looking. I'm sure she is quite pretty, but the way she presented herself was pretty shoddy.

Thirdly, her music was....uber electronica. Pretty generic electronica tracks, with some of the worst uber-autotuned vocal tracks laid over it. Makes T-Pain's stuff seem as smooth as a classically trained tenor. The autotune was flying all over the place, the tonality of her voice seemed like a generic pop-stars (kinda that Britney Spears tone)....who knows what it actually sounds like. Fourthly, the lyrical subject matter of her work was edgy for the point of being edgy. One of her songs had her sing "I like pornography" over and over again. Other of her songs....blah. Makes some gangsta rap seem tame. Just terrible.

Now I understand electronica is not my thing. I record relatively natural sounding stuff. I figured I could probably get her vocals close to how it is on her other songs, I do have the right effects and stuff. But what made me curious was the high quality of the backing tracks. Were they ripped from commercial music, were they from royalty-free compilations, or were they actually made to her work? The contrast of qualtiy to the electronica backing tracks (which were pretty pro) to her terrible vocals was extreme, leading me to believe that if she could afford tailored backing tracks, she could afford a real studio. So they were probably not 'her' stuff specifically. Still, I was willing to give her a shot.

The weird part hasn't even been mentioned yet. From the myspace she linked me, there were obscure links to other myspaces, each with the same name but numbered differently (the one she linked me was, say, baby0, and others were baby1, baby2, etc.). Each one of those weren't explicitly listed as being her's, but under website on all of them they linked back to the baby0. They all had different tracks, and from the random samples I clicked, all seemed to be the same person performing them. If that doesn't sound shady enough, her location on every myspace page was listed in a different city...New York, Seattle, Hollywood, Chicago, etc. But never Portland (where I'm located, for those who don't know).

That gave me warning bells wondering if this is some sort of weird scam that I was unable to figure out. A glimmer of hope came in her e-mail asking what software I used. That probably means she is looking for compatibility, which *could* mean she wants to be able to take the raw tracks and do the mixing herself. That could explain the terrible effects, and would save me a lot of trouble (and embarrassment). I'd just be responsible for the actual recording, not the mixing. Or I was hoping for too much and she was just clueless to how DAWs work and that functionally they're all the same, but she thinks otherwise.

So I shoot her an e-mail:

[quote]Hey BLANK, good to hear back from you.

There are several things I want to make clear before we proceed with anything, as there is some confusion on my end. Since you want to know what software I am using, I'm assuming you want to take the tracks you record here and then do the effects and mix somewhere else, or are you wanting me to do that myself? I use REAPER, but I can save your vocals in a way that any software can read them if you were wanting to mix them yourself or somewhere else.

As I said earlier, I haven't recorded that many vocals, and I have yet to record electronica sort of thing. Not to say I don't know how to get that effect on your voice, but it may require a bit more work on my end if you are wanting me to do the mixing for you.

Also, your myspace says you're located in New York? And the different BLANK numbers (which I'm assuming is all you?) are all different places; Hollywood, Seattle, etc. Are you actually in Portland? I'm a bit confused as to this.

How many songs are you wanting to record?[/quote]

Pretty straightforward but not accusatory. Fairly innocent e-mail if you ask me. Just clarifying a few things confusing me, and trying to get what she actually wants to accomplish aside from "singing over tracks."

Several days later (the 20th, just a couple days ago) I just get this back from her:

[QUOTE]hey i was wondering if you have any studio time open for tonight.. call me at BLANK - HER NAME[/QUOTE]

She didn't answer ONE of my questions. Completely ignored them. Even if she ignored my confusion as to what her Myspaces were about, I'd still like to know if she planned to mix them herself or have me mix them, and how many songs she'd like to do. That's all basic pre-production stuff you do before any session. That and I checked the area code of her phone, and its LA County. Now there can be a gazillion explanations for that....she moved from LA to Portland being the most innocent one. But given her 10 myspace profiles all with different cities....I'm just confused. Who is this person? Who are these people if not one person?

Add that to the fact she wanted to book THAT VERY NIGHT! Who does that? It was only two days ago but I'm pretty sure I had something going on that night anyway. Also, I use my landline more than my cell because I live in a cell phone pocket and I have to walk about 100 feet down the road to get enough reception to talk, so its just easier for me to use the landline. There would be long distance fees on that for sure.

I'm just thinking of saying fuck it, this is too weird. Although I'm almost curious enough to go down the road and give this number a call, see what I get. But everything leading up to now is just sketchy as hell, but I have no clue how this/these people/person are trying to con me.

Your guys' thoughts?

Definitely not the behavior you'd expect, but at the same time, not too weird for a CL situation. My inclination would be to pass on the project since you didn't particularly like the existing samples, but if you're keen to try your hand at something new you could potentially salvage the situation. More detailed thoughts follow below...

[quote=Seafroggys;18415875]So on Feb 13 I see a post of a female singer looking for a place to record her vocals for less than $20 an hour. She already has the music but just needs to sing over it. She's asking for a pretty low rate, but considering its just for recording vocals (which is relatively straight forward as far as setup and such is concerned) that I offered her a rate of $15 an hour. Yes, that is lower than I believe that work, and less than double my day job, but hey something is better than nothing. I figured it may be some karoke work she wants to do or something.[/quote]

I've done that session, the only difference being the location (I recorded it at the singer's place, because that's what I do). She was a little flaky (not this bad), but I ended up recording her twice over 2 years.

[quote=Seafroggys;18415875]Next day she sends me a response asking me what software I use and a link to her music (a myspace link). Even though I've shown other people on the internet her myspace, I'll follow Moseph's example and not link it. What I got was very.......interesting, to say the least. First off, her Myspace looked like a typical myspace page (i.e. bad layouts). Secondly, the picture of her on the myspace.....I am not one to judge people on their appearence, but she looked like a $10 prostitute. Very trashy looking. I'm sure she is quite pretty, but the way she presented herself was pretty shoddy.

Thirdly, her music was....uber electronica. Pretty generic electronica tracks, with some of the worst uber-autotuned vocal tracks laid over it. Makes T-Pain's stuff seem as smooth as a classically trained tenor. The autotune was flying all over the place, the tonality of her voice seemed like a generic pop-stars (kinda that Britney Spears tone)....who knows what it actually sounds like. Fourthly, the lyrical subject matter of her work was edgy for the point of being edgy. One of her songs had her sing "I like pornography" over and over again. Other of her songs....blah. Makes some gangsta rap seem tame. Just terrible.[/quote]


Nothing weird here. That's just the MySpace culture sometimes.


[quote=Seafroggys;18415875]But what made me curious was the high quality of the backing tracks. Were they ripped from commercial music, were they from royalty-free compilations, or were they actually made to her work? The contrast of qualtiy to the electronica backing tracks (which were pretty pro) to her terrible vocals was extreme, leading me to believe that if she could afford tailored backing tracks, she could afford a real studio. So they were probably not 'her' stuff specifically. Still, I was willing to give her a shot.[/quote]

Also not weird. Backing tracks are kind of a big business, and a lot of studios/producers/beat-makers/etc make that sort of thing sound good and then make it available, often for very cheap or free. What you're probably dealing with are vocal lines she wrote to accompany a pre-created backing track. It's not uncommon, particularly when dealing with people who fancy themselves as singers and rappers, but not necessarily musicians/producers/beat-makers. One of the dead giveaways will be if the track is compressed all to hell and would also be that way without the vocals: usually those pre-created tracks are given a pseudo-master before they're sold.


[quote=Seafroggys;18415875]From the myspace she linked me, there were obscure links to other myspaces, each with the same name but numbered differently (the one she linked me was, say, baby0, and others were baby1, baby2, etc.). Each one of those weren't explicitly listed as being her's, but under website on all of them they linked back to the baby0. They all had different tracks, and from the random samples I clicked, all seemed to be the same person performing them. If that doesn't sound shady enough, her location on every myspace page was listed in a different city...New York, Seattle, Hollywood, Chicago, etc. But never Portland (where I'm located, for those who don't know).[/quote]

I agree this is the first genuinely weird thing so far, but I can also see reasons for wanting multiple MySpace pages. Maybe she changed her "name" (i.e., artist name) a few times, or maybe she wants to circumvent song limits imposed by MySpace without spending money. The "location" thing is the weirdest bit, and that's where I agree that maybe you've got some kind of scam happening.

[quote=Seafroggys;18415875]She didn't answer ONE of my questions. Completely ignored them. Even if she ignored my confusion as to what her Myspaces were about, I'd still like to know if she planned to mix them herself or have me mix them, and how many songs she'd like to do. That's all basic pre-production stuff you do before any session. That and I checked the area code of her phone, and its LA County. Now there can be a gazillion explanations for that....she moved from LA to Portland being the most innocent one. But given her 10 myspace profiles all with different cities....I'm just confused. Who is this person? Who are these people if not one person?

Add that to the fact she wanted to book THAT VERY NIGHT! Who does that? It was only two days ago but I'm pretty sure I had something going on that night anyway. Also, I use my landline more than my cell because I live in a cell phone pocket and I have to walk about 100 feet down the road to get enough reception to talk, so its just easier for me to use the landline. There would be long distance fees on that for sure.[/quote]

I wouldn't engage further without a lengthy phone conversation, or preferably a meet and greet in person in a public place. And by "public place" I mean someplace where weird crap doesn't generally happen: a public library, church, community center, or government facility.

I also wouldn't do anything with a phone that's explicitly tied to your identity. Shortly after I left the studio gig, they got some folks wandering around offering the staff $2000 in cold hard cash for the key to the room for 20 minutes. The same guys were later seen trying to convince users (that they didn't know) to let them in mid-session. The police were called both times. So short term demands like that could be here trying to get access to a studio to swipe some gear for a quick buck.

If you're still interested in this, I would check out Google Voice. I use it as a proxy for recording to help prevent situations like this from being an issue. You can set it up so that it's tied to your phone number (or not, if you prefer), and it gives you free calling nationwide. What's nice about it is that you now have a distinct phone number that isn't tied to your identity explicitly (just a potentially anonymous email address or Google account) and any attempts to back-trace you have to go through Google before they have a shot at something actually tied to you (and if you don't have direct phone routing, it doesn't matter anyway).

My first inclination would be to send a follow-up email and then leave the ball in her court (most of the time, this does mean the session falls through in my experience). However, since she's demonstrated no particular ability to make use of email, getting her on the phone might be your only option.

Figured I should share this as it's pertinent to the purpose of this thread. It pertains to a re-post of a particular ad I talked about before:

[quote=Moseph;18341661]...[/quote]

The guy who lied about his gear and said he was hands-down the best? Somebody else posted a response to a re-posting of that particular ad language (no pics though):

[quote]Arrogant egomaniacs who insist they are "the best" at something should be a red flag to everyone. Their boasting is usually a cover-up for some deficiency.

I went to [B][Bad Poster's] [/B]site and I listened to every sample that was available and here's the thing: It all sounds good... BUT every single recording on that page is done with keyboards/sequencers and drum machines! ANYONE who has a good ear and knows the first thing about recording knows that it's easy to get a good recording when all your instrument sources are direct- no microphones involved other than the vocals. I can do shit that sounds like a friggin' Lady GaGa album in my basement with a 16 track DAW if I'm recording all instruments direct like that.

If [B][bad poster][/B] is such a bad-ass engineer and producer, lets hear what it sounds like when he has to mic up an entire drum kit and bass and guitar amplifiers.. or horns, etc.
Any slapdick can make a great recording when it's all digital to digital with no live miking...[/quote]


It wasn't me who posted that. But I think clearly it's a sign that the posting style of that ad is able to rub people the wrong way.

[quote][SIZE=3][B]Record in HD for free![/B][/SIZE]

Thats right, Free! every 5th caller will receive a free track just for calling! [/quote]

I'm going to ignore that "HD" doesn't have any definite meaning for audio like it does for video. They probably just mean high sampling rates.

What I'm really curious about it is what everyone's reaction is to this "radio caller" style promotion? Do you think it's a good enticing promotion?

That's a legitimate question. Because my reaction is, "well, what about the other 4 callers?" In other words, I'd want to figure out some way to be the 5th caller. Am I over-thinking this?

[QUOTE=Moseph;18420303]I'm going to ignore that "HD" doesn't have any definite meaning for audio like it does for video. They probably just mean high sampling rates.

What I'm really curious about it is what everyone's reaction is to this "radio caller" style promotion? Do you think it's a good enticing promotion?

That's a legitimate question. Because my reaction is, "well, what about the other 4 callers?" In other words, I'd want to figure out some way to be the 5th caller. Am I over-thinking this?[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't consider you over thinking it, what do they mean by "free track" does that mean they will do a free track for you or you will receive a free track to listen when you call? What about the rest of the recording's are those going to be lo-fi? Do you have to pay extra for "quality" work. In some cases though the radio promotion thing would work to get people to call and if they are doing a doesn't matter who's the 5th as long as we book em type deal... See now you got me over-thinking on this subject

[quote=Cramboli;18423715]I wouldn't consider you over thinking it, what do they mean by "free track" does that mean they will do a free track for you[/quote]


That's what I'm assuming they're getting at.


[quote=Cramboli;18423715]What about the rest of the recording's are those going to be lo-fi? Do you have to pay extra for "quality" work.[/quote]


I didn't post the entire ad. It's very clear that the normal rates are $40/hour and they will only record "in HD" (again, I'm assuming that means at sample rates higher than 48kHz).

So this nonsense:

[quote=Moseph;18346273]....[/quote]

...got a little more interesting. And I think I may have screwed up a bit (more on that later).

Basically, the guy who's smearing people is back at it, this time going after a 4th recording guy. To make this post make more sense, we'll call the smear poster "Mr. Smear" and you should know that this new target goes by "Mike" (I figure it's common enough that his identity is secure) and is repeat poster who advertises that he has Pro Tools 9 HD.

For a couple of weeks, Mr. Smear has been going after Mike with basically this ad:

[quote=Mr. Smear][B][SIZE=3]Pro Tools 9 HD is a lying crook![/SIZE]

[/B]I was taken for a ride with this guy.....Not only when I arrived did he not have the a fully functional HD setup as claimed....He was extremely slow and was very dissatisfied with the result....Dont waste your time! [/quote]


Now, for whatever reason, Mr. Smear has continued to post this after like a solid month (he relented on the other studios). Mike shot back with a couple of ads challenging Mr. Smear to answer basic questions about the studio:


[quote=Mike]Well since you claim to of come to my STUDIO tell me some FACTS because you and I know your lying because you NEVER CAME TO MY STUDIO...Tell me then what do I look like and where exactly is my studio? What color is the carpet? Is the studio in a house or a commercial building? How many couches are in the studio? Since you CAN'T answer these questions it poves YOU NEVER HAVE BEEN AT MY STUDIO. You did the same trash talking with 2 other studios last month so EVERYONE KNOWS YOUR LYING. ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND PROVE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN TO MY STUDIO...I POST PICS AND ALL YOU DO IS FLAG ALL THE STUDIOS ON HERE.[/quote]


For the reasons I've already discussed, this is a bad move, but I think it's understandable where it's coming from. After a month of being bad-mouthed relentlessly from an anonymous source, I think anyone might feel compelled to try to do [I]something[/I] about it. The responses were either taken straight from the photos Mike himself posted in his ads, or were incredibly vague:

[quote=Mr. Smear]your studio sucks ass. the carpet is blue...you got 2 couches and your in a house....and guess what else your work sucks and you dont have protools 9 HD is just 9...why dont you get a real job instead of pretending your a producer and stealing peoples money you lazy piece of shit... oh ya your white and tall and dumpy looking .... you know i was there you faggot..[/quote]

On repeated challenges, he also said that Mike would "deal in cash" (really? who doesn't?)


Herein lies the basic problem with the Internet: people looking to stir up shit have no sense of shame. You'd think I'd be aware of this, but apparently a month of this crap clogging up my RSS feed weirdly affected me too.

It started when I saw this:

[quote=Mr. Smear]This guy does not have Protools HD its just regular HD, He is slow and will rack up your bill. also his work sucks, hence why he doesnt post any he is horrible...If your good you post samples he is a crook billed me for about 5 extra hours because he is soo slow/computer stalling, and told me it was just part of the deal...He is a scam artist and my recording sounded like a 2 year old did. Just trying to save you guys from this scammer [/quote]


After about 3 weeks of this new ad, I decided to try to shame this guy (see my mistake?) with a private email from a dummy account:

[quote=Moseph]I don't get what you mean by "regular HD." what does "HD" mean outisde the context of Pro Tools? I only know it as a video spec, and even then it's more casual than technical......[/quote]

Mike also made a more public observation by posting an ad that said basically the same thing, but also issued more challenge questions to be answered.

The response?

[quote=Mr. Smear]Sorry [B][the fake name I used][/B], My bad its a Typo.... You claim to have HD PROTOOLS it is just standard PROTOOLS 9...As far as the 5 hours your overcharged me, it wasnt for work that wasnt done it was work that anyone else could have done 5 hrs quicker... you piece of shit...Guys please dont fall for this guys fakeness. he is like your typical salesman scammer...."Oh I can do this do that" when your his ginny pig and learning while you pay...dont do it![/quote]


You can all face-palm at me now (I'll pretend it's in unison for full effect): maybe I was too subtle, but more realistically this guy doesn't have any particular sense of shame about what he's doing (which is obviously lying his ass off). So what did I really accomplish? Well, I basically taught Mr. Smear a new trick to be considerate of. Oh, I also facilitated his inadvertent use of a mid-20th Century racial slur for Italians (pretty sure he was going for "guinea pig").

The sad part? All of Mr. Smear's attack ads are posted within 30 minutes (and normally closer to 15-20) of his own studio's ads. Since they all get flagged within about 20 minutes, the only real way to see all this is with an RSS feed (or something similar I guess). Most of the time, these smears are immediately adjacent to his own ads. They also feature a lot of the same grammatical issues (particularly the ellipses and lack of distinct sentences)...he's not even particularly bright about [I]trying[/I] to make it look like a legitimate complaint.

I think the big lesson here, for me, is "[B]there is no shame on the Internet, Moseph: exactly how stupid are you that you didn't know that?[/B]"

I'm unsure as to why he hasn't been flagged for that, I mean like right in between his posts just trolling other businesses?

[quote=Cramboli;18456781]I'm unsure as to why he hasn't been flagged for that, I mean like right in between his posts just trolling other businesses?[/quote]


Oh, he's getting flagged. That's kind of the craigslist culture in my area: they flag basically everything that isn't 100% within the guidelines (and sometimes stuff that is, too). Usually within 30 minutes.

Another big part of the craigslist culture is therefore is persistence in re-posting ads. Kind of by necessity.

If you can come across something other than craigslist for adverts especially something tailored towards Studios and whatnot that would be a worthy post. I've been thinking about doing something like that but I don't have the time,skill, and patience to do so :(
Besides these minor inconveniences I've been hearing more complaints of craigslist ads and stuff of all nature with users and just overall trust with it. I think it'd be worth a shot to have/find something tailored to that so it would eliminate some of the b/s. I know there would still be some issues but if it was one thing towards a specific demographic it might make it easier to sift through on the users end and easier cleanup on the moderators.

eBay classifieds/Kijiji
Facebook classifieds

I don't use those because they're less populated, so it's a lot of effort to keep track of them with very little actual content. eBay has added RSS feeds to their classifieds now, so I might start using that.

You can also do things the "hard way" by searching Social Networking sites manually (or by perusing the friends of band profiles). However, that's a very "noisy" way to go about doing it, as you will often find stuff you're looking for, but located far, far away.

I have another sketchy craigslist situation I want to run by the people here.

So I teach drum lessons, and I advertise on craigslist (where I get the majority of my students). A year ago I had a hispanic man call me who didn't speak good English, but we managed to communicate okay on the phone and we set up a time to start lessons. But.....I forgot to give him the address. So he never showed up, but he never called again.

About two months ago, this same man calls (I remembered his name for some reason) and wants to set up lessons again. He didn't seem to remember me or anything, which isn't surprising as most people don't have the same memory that I have. So this time I wouldn't be stupid and forget to give him my address. When I get to my city name (Damascus, which is a rural community just southeast of Portland) he doesn't know what it was, or where it was. I ask him where he was coming from, and he said Beaverton (which is a major suburb west of Portland). For those that don't know the Portland area, NOT during rush hour that's maybe a 45 minute drive. On my craigslist post I give the locations of many of the surrounding communities as well, to attract people from those areas. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he didn't realize the location, but then he said he had no car and wondered if he could come by mass transit. The nearest busline is 4 miles from my house, and even if you managed to make it that far, that's a decent 2+ hour busride just one way.

Anyway, he decided to see if he could ask around for a ride, and it ended there. There's dozens of drum teachers between me and him, some that offer the same rate I do (I'm below average for the Portland Metro area, but not 'budget' or 'bargain' rate), so I'm really curious why he chose me, seeing as many of these people advertise on craigslist much more often than I do. Its also worthy to note that during that recent phone call, he mentioned having never taken lessons with anybody, meaning that he never found anybody else, closer or farther than I was, during those ten months.

Regardless, I just shrugged it off as either an oversight on his part or maybe just stupidity. I dunno, but I didn't feel sketchy about it then.

On Monday, I get a phone call from a hispanic woman wanting to take lessons. She doesn't know English very well either. But she says that she and a friend wants to take lessons with me. I'm pretty quick at formulating guesses, so I was almost certain her friend was this man who had called me twice. They wanted to take lessons together, for my regular rate. Now in retrospect this seems like a red flag for me. I don't teach multiple students (especially adults I don't know....school aged children would be a different story), so I should have just said no right there, or done it for a slightly higher rate. But at the time I was just happy to get some more students, so I give her the usual introductory speal, rate confirmation, and then the address. She too was confused about how to spell Damascus. Are people this clueless about Portland suburbs? Anyway, halfway through the conversation she said that she was in Tigard (which is a little closer than Beaverton, its SW of Portland...but still a good 30-35 minute drive) and her friend was in Beaverton (aha!). She works in the evenings but we picked a time in the early afternoon, then she gave her name and the name of her friend (which was...you guessed it....the same guy).

This just seems weird to me. The first two phone calls seemed totally innocent to me, but that last one introduced me to sketchiness. I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, or maybe I'm being slightly xenophobic (which is wrong, I know).

So here's my current theories:

1: He needed a ride to my place to take lessons, and convinced a friend to take lessons with me.
2: He needed a ride to my place to take lessons, and had his friend call me to make it look like she was wanting to take lessons too, but they show up and only he takes the lesson.
3: They're trying to scam me somehow (or rip me off).

I don't have a phone number, otherwise I'd be inclined to call and cancel because I'm not feeling comfortable about this (it is my home, and I have two drumsets worth several thousands and audio gear worth many more thousands...not to mention anything else my family has). Maybe I'm overreacting and they're really genuine, and for some reason haven't found a drum teacher who is a lot closer to them (which.....is a stretch). I just don't know. Thoughts?

EDIT: I failed to mentioned that when the woman called, the first thing she asked me after saying she wanted to take drum lessons was where was my address. Now that could be a result of lower than average english skills and she might not have known when would be the proper time to ask such a question. But I figured it would be worth mentioning.

On paper, this sounds awkward but not unreasonable: you explicitly give directions from other parts of town in your ad. Also, didn't you just post a thread in D&P talking about an interview you did that was published locally, or something? Keep in mind that I didn't have the same phone calls, so this is all based only on your descriptions.

If that's the case, it's not weird to think that you had a higher standing in the mind of these two (just by the fact that your name was exposed to them more frequently, or they made a mental connection because it seemed to apply to them).

One thing I would suggest is to always get contact info from students before the first session. It could help avoid issues like this, but is also smart in case there's an unexpected emergency, like you lost power or something.

I would also be adamant about not teaching two students for the price of one. It's bad practice and general, and the ensuing dialogue could help reveal some of their motivation.

Lastly, try to keep a group of people conspicuously on-location (not interfering with the lesson, however) during the lesson: if they were planning on trying something, the fact that there's a whole bunch of people around would probably help them reconsider (or at minimum, have others on the scene to call the police).

Yeah after I thought about it some more overnight, I think I overreacted a bit.

That interview was just posted 2-3 days ago, doubt if it was advertised on craigs at all.

It would be cool to think that I had a higher standing to them in their eyes, but I highly doubt I have built a reputation yet....or enough of a reputation where people come to me BECAUSE I'm me.

Having friends over is a good idea, and is what I was always planned on. Yeah, I am hitting myself in the head for that deal I offered them. But to be realistic, they'll probably only do one lesson, if that. The reason being is the distance. Neither one of them, not knowing where my town is located, actually knows how far away I actually am from them. Once they realize the drive from Tigard is 40 minutes (I just checked Google Maps) at best, given good traffic, they'll probably do one or two lessons and then be done. Or at least, she'll be done. The guy probably would honestly want to continue, but he'll have no way to get here. Almost an hour and a half round trip isn't worth a half hour lesson, and also she said she starts work at 4:30 or so, and with her lesson ending at 3....yeah, if they even show up for the first lesson after she finds out how far away I am, then she'll probably be unwilling to continue after the second week or so.

[quote][SIZE=3][B]Looking for demo singing projects[/B][/SIZE]

Looking for demo singing projects. If you are interested please respond and I will give you my website. Thank you. [/quote]

This is a classic case of "not enough info." That's the entire ad. It's completely unclear whether this person is looking to sing on a demo, work with a singer for demos, or record somebody else' singing for a demo.

[quote][B][SIZE=3]Recording a mixtape or album?[/SIZE][/B]

One of his many clients include [B][artist or label I've never heard of][/B]'s artist [B][artist I've never heard of][/B]. Recording engineer and music producer is fresh from America's newest mecca of music Atlanta to provide his talent and expertise to the [B][location][/B] area. You get a great rate at Platinum winning [B][Well-known Studio Name][/B] Studios' Studio D. He will take the time to record your song at a professional level on some of the recording industry's most optimal and expensive gear at great price for you. Sound like a big music label without a big music label budget. Reply now.[/quote]


This is so close to being a pretty good ad. It gives a clear idea of the experience involved (presumably those early references are impressive to somebody: just because I don't know them doesn't mean they don't have local/regional notoriety). It mentions the facility in a concise way that is still easy to learn about (the studio's website gives good info, and it [I]is[/I] one of the better known "big league" studios in my area). There's minimal BS hype.

But the whole thing is just [I]awkward[/I]. We never get "his" name, so the thing comes off as the second half of a cheesy movie trailer narration. It's also weird that the poster is willing to name-drop a previous client and work location, but not himself.

Say you did respond to the ad: what you would put in the email reply (only a CL email was given)?

"Hey, is this him?"
"Hi, who the f*** are you?"
"I wanna get into the D room at the studio!"

None of those come off as demonstrating a great sell in the ad.

[quote]These services are NOT for mixing, but MASTERING only. If you are unsure of the difference, please do a Google search for a better understanding. All genre's accepted, all files will be delivered via downloadable link in Waveform Audio Format and .MP3 format. Processing begins after payment is received. Payment is ONLY accepted through a verified business PayPal account. Merchant ID is available upon request. Inquire within with any questions. [/quote]

This is a snippet of a larger ad. The ad itself is pretty functional overall, but I wanted to get some opinions about something.

Wouldn't you think it would be better if a potential client is confused about the difference between mixing/mastering to get them in CONTACT with you so you can explain it yourself? They only provide enough info to email them: I understand that it can get tiresome to constantly re-explain the same thing however many times a day, but if you're communicating via email, you can save a fine-tuned explanation in a text file and just send them the copypasta every time. I would think that getting an open line of communication would be a much better MO for business in this case, because if you helped out the client before they even knew they needed help, then they might be more inclined to come to you for your actual services.

Am I backwards on that?

Yeah I'd be super annoyed probably, so I agree with him posting that there is a difference. Heck, I was super annoyed when a friend of mine I was recording kept on referring to mixing as mastering (but I never corrected her.....).

Although...why get a song mastered and have it returned to you as an Mp3?

You can also get it in both Waveform Audio format [b]or[/b] mp3.


Wait a second, what is Waveform Audio format? .wav?

You know, I had assumed that "Waveform" = "WAV", but that's a really good point.

As for the mp3 return, it's a pretty basic service to offer. Not everybody knows how to do the conversion themselves, and it's possible that a mastering house might have access to better-sounding codecs.

[quote][B][SIZE=3]still need help
[/SIZE][/B]
still need official help recording my mix tape
I dont need flauging people nor wanna be engineers
'm not asking for much record mike mix
is it realyy that hard up here?
email me only if you are serious
i rap sing write
i'm close to [B][anchor city][/B]
dont just respond to me to make ya self feel good

lets get it asap[/quote]

This poster has been going at it for about 2 weeks now, or at least I assume so: there's never any contact info beyond the CL proxy email and no names are ever mentioned. But every few days another post goes up with similar pleas for help with the mixtape.

I'm not really a "rap guy", but I responded to the first ad myself, just to see what was up. Not only did I not get a response, but I'm assuming he's referring to guys like me in the "wannabe" comment (I am always upfront about my part-timer status because it can affect deadlines). 100 points to the first person who correctly guesses how much money this guy was offering in the first ad, too...

Here's the funny thing: it's definitely not "that hard up" in my area. My records show 23 distinct advertisers of services in a single week on CL, and that's just limiting things to studios/engineers posting on CL. I don't advertise, and I still found his ad and responded.

The lesson here is to present yourself much better than this guy so people take you seriously, and then maybe think of finding collaborators like a job-interview process. At some point, you just have to go with your best prospective hire. If none of the applicant's are what you were hoping for, then it's entirely possible you haven't made the position desirable enough to find somebody good.

[quote][B][SIZE=3]**Are you the best RAPPER or SINGER ALIVE? RECORD YOUR NEXT HIT HERE**[/SIZE][/B]


WELCOME TO [B][name redacted][/B] WHERE NOTHING BUT STARS RECORD! WE HAVE THE HOTTEST RECORDING BOOTH WHERE YOU CAN LAY DOWN YOUR VOCALS OR SPIT A HOT SIXTEEN! WITH AMAZING PARAPHERNALIA SO YOUR RECORD WILL BE NOTHING BUT THE BEST, HOTTEST, CRAZIEST RECORD OUT! AND WHEN YOU FINISH ENJOY OUR WONDERFUL LOUNGE. SIT BACK...RELAX AND LISTEN TO YOUR MUSIC! THIS IS JUST PERFECT AND WITH DEALS LIKE A 6 HOUR RECORDING BLOCK FOR $250.00!!! SMH RIDICULOUS! FOR MORE INFORMATION VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT [B][site redacted][/B] or contact us at [B][phone redacted][/B] [/quote]

Okay, all caps? Check.

[I]Except in the title where you could probably get away with it[/I]? Check.

Hype language that borders on absurd and meaningless? Check.

But I think my favorite parts of this ad are the subtleties. Like how "NOTHING BUT STARS RECORD". Are they turning people away left and right? Do they realize that they're referring to their clientele as "nothing" rather than "nobody"?

Is there really a difference between "LAY DOWN YOUR VOCALS" and "SPIT A HOT SIXTEEN"? Doesn't that difference imply that you can either finish your tracks or just do 16 bars of it? To me, that just reads as "Come on down to our studio, where you can finish your work or not! We'll take your money either way!"

The hype language is more forgivable, but there's just something funny to me about promising that each client will have the "THE BEST, HOTTEST, CRAZIEST RECORD OUT": it kind of implies that each project is better than the last one, which in turn kind of implies that they've never done their best because they keep improving. I know that in reality this is kind of how it [I]does[/I] work, but it's not really an idea you want to pervade your advertising hype.

But the [I]best[/I] part of this ad, for me, is referring to your equipment as "PARAPHERNALIA." While they do get some points for the obvious spell-check, [I]nobody[/I] (or "nothing" as the case may be with these guys) uses "paraphernalia" to talk about recording equipment.

I hear that word, and I don't think you're providing me with great mics and awesome acoustics. I think you're trying to sell me bongs.

[QUOTE=Moseph;18559723]
I hear that word, and I don't think you're providing me with great mics and awesome acoustics. I think you're trying to sell me bongs.[/QUOTE]

Hah, exactly what I was thinking

[quote] [SIZE=3][B]§§§§§§ Set it Up Right! (free)[/B][/SIZE]
It's gotta work first!
Need someone to setup/troubleshoot your computer audio recording system?

I have been in the music sound and recording business for more than 25 years, and love setting up well-running systems! [/quote]


Had to share this one. Look at that second line!

Newsflash: [I]everybody[/I] loves setting up a well-running system. You go through the steps, the stuff works like you'd expect it to, all the blinking lights go on/off as expected. It's a pretty satisfying experience.

It's when things [I]don't[/I] go 100% according to plan when people get frustrated. That's when they want and/or need help.

I can't fault this guy for offering to help folks out for free, but at the same time this is a hilarious mistake to me.

[quote]Ask for the cell if you have no email.[/quote]Rest of the ad is okay, but they only give an email address for contact.

See the problem here? If we don't have email, how are we supposed to "Ask for the cell"?

That's kind of like selling software that, once installed, will teach you how to install software. The poster kind of shot himself in the foot with that one.

[QUOTE=Moseph;18686359]Rest of the ad is okay, but they only give an email address for contact.

See the problem here? If we don't have email, how are we supposed to "Ask for the cell"?

That's kind of like selling software that, once installed, will teach you how to install software. The poster kind of shot himself in the foot with that one.[/QUOTE]

I find it such a turn-off when people only list an email address. I love to be able to pick up the phone and sort things out in 5 minutes rather than the multiple day back and forth that goes with emailing.

While I normally agree with you, I'm very much an e-mail person. I feel that I can articulate points and details much better in e-mail. Phone is faster, true, but e-mail can be fast as well, considering everybody has smart phones with e-mail access nowadays.

And another good thing with emailing is that I can just setup a template and shoot it out to 10 different people by making some slight changes. I gotta say that I find that nice.