If you want to wait for the album and enjoy the anticipation of buying it and tearing off the plastic and putting it in your stereo and listening to it, then that's fine and dandy. That's your preferred way of experiencing Tool. Others might have the same experience with a new Tool album by downloading it and listening to it all the way through, as you would have. So what if we didn't wait until May 2nd and tear off the plastic and put the cd in our stereo and feel all the *anticipation*? It doesn't take away any of the experience for us, although it might for you, and that I can understand. I also don't see how this is such a huge disrespect to the band, sure they didn't want it to leak but it leaked, we all plan to buy this album on May 2nd so its not like we are just listening to it and not supporting the band. Which is why I disagree with you when you say "to bad you've already ruined it by downloading." Ruined what? If thats how he likes to experience Tool, and doesn't feel it to be any different from your way of experiencing them, then that doesn't make him any less of a Tool fan than you, nor does it make his way the least bit "wrong" or "ruined".

A downloader could never understand.

No, I know exactly what you mean, I just don't think there is any "right" way to experience Tool. Everyone has their own way, anticipating the album and buying it the day it comes out isn't necessarily the only or best way of experiencing them for some people.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]yadda yadda yadda[/QUOTE]
Well, when I say disrespect, I meen you are technically stealing from the band at this point, whether you buy it on May 2nd or not.

There's just such an awesome feeling when you run into that CD store and buy it fresh and new. Now you guys will never experience that with this record. But that doesn't matter, it's your choice. I can see how you could not care at all about what I'm talking about (the feeling I speak of), but... well... I don't care. As long as you try to experience the album to the fullest. :)

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]No, I know exactly what you mean, I just don't think there is any "right" way to experience Tool. Everyone has their own way, anticipating the album and buying it the day it comes out isn't necessarily the only or best way of experiencing them for some people.[/QUOTE]
Would you like it if you spent the last 5 years preparing something to show the world then 10 or so days before its release people start downoading this grand thing you have put all this time into and stealing your thunder.

I think it is a massive showing of disrespect to the band and a true fan of any band would never to that to them out of there own personal greed to hear it a few days earlier. If you werent a Tool fan I wouldnt care but your avatar says different, you should feel truly ashamed of yourself.

Yeah, I get the stealing part. That's understandable, and I get what you are saying. I know what it's like to wait out an album and buy it after waiting etc., it is awesome, but I felt the same way downloading it. And I'm still f'ucking excited to buy it, just for the possibility that it might be different and for the artwork.

EDIT: I personally would not care if I spent the last 5 years preparing an album to show the world and people started downloading it 10 days before it came out. I don't care when they hear it as long as they hear it. I know my true fans will go out and buy it regardless, so it honestly doesn't offend me if someone downloaded an album I put a lot of work into, sure I would be angered if people did that and didn't buy the album/see the art, but the kids who do that aren't the type of kids I'd want hearing my music anyways.

How old are you?

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]Would you like it if you spent the last 5 years preparing something to show the world then 10 or so days before its release people start downoading this grand thing you have put all this time into and stealing your thunder.

I think it is a massive showing of disrespect to the band and a true fan of any band would never to that to them out of there own personal greed to hear it a few days earlier. If you werent a Tool fan I wouldnt care but your avatar says different, you should feel truly ashamed of yourself.[/QUOTE]


Wow. I don't know where to start, other than you're making an idiot of yourself.

1. Who are you to describe what a "true fan" is?
2. Stealing their thunder? really! Stealing their music & claiming it your own would more so fall under that.
3. Disrespect the band? What are you five years old? This is most likely why I've learned Tool fanboys are worse than any others. They try to "think deep" like Maynard attempts.
3. Personal Greed? Hmm. I think it's just what someone wants to do. Just because they download the album doesn't mean they won't buy it. You ever thought someone would be SO EAGER to hear their favorite bands new CD, that's only a click away?
4. Why should he feel bad? A fan is someone who likes the music. If he can't wait to hear it, that's his choice. Once again. Who are you to decide a "true fan"?

5. It doesn't hurt you if someone else wants to hear something before you do. It's each persons choice and style.

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]How old are you?[/QUOTE]


That's better reversed onto you.

Almost 16, but I think thats highly irrelevant. Do you see what I'm saying though? I understand what you're saying, this is just my opinion. But you're probably going to use my age as an argument against me anyways.

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]Would you like it if you spent the last 5 years preparing something to show the world then 10 or so days before its release people start downoading this grand thing you have put all this time into and stealing your thunder.

I think it is a massive showing of disrespect to the band and a true fan of any band would never to that to them out of there own personal greed to hear it a few days earlier. If you werent a Tool fan I wouldnt care but your avatar says different, you should feel truly ashamed of yourself.[/QUOTE]haha are you kidding me? asshole

Personally I have alot of respect for good musicians. I am not a crazed Tool fanboy.

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]Personally I have alot of respect for good musicians. I am not a crazed Tool fanboy.[/QUOTE]

That still doesn't give you the right to tell others who don't agree with you that they should be ashamed and aren't true fans. Being a true fan is relative anyways.

Thanks for the support, I'm Charming.

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]Personally I have alot of respect for good musicians. I am not a crazed Tool fanboy.[/QUOTE]just leave this thread please someone ban him

I hope you don't think everyone in this thread are the Tool fanboys you speak of. :) If you do, you don't know us well enough.


Edit: to Charming... damn like 4 posts in like 3 seconds...

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]Almost 16, but I think thats highly irrelevant. Do you see what I'm saying though? I understand what you're saying, this is just my opinion. But you're probably going to use my age as an argument against me anyways.[/QUOTE]

Most of us regulars (including myself) are around that age, so don't worry about that. :)

I would have said the same thing when I was your age, maybe someday you will understand.

Cliche argument. Age is just a number man, don't be judgemental. Being judgemental isn't being a true Tool fan.

Drunkelheit, I don't consider you to be a Tool fanboy. I am glad that you were mature about your argument and respected a dissenting opinion.

This thread has become so fagged up since the CD was leaked, it's ridiculous.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]Cliche argument. Age is just a number man, don't be judgemental. Being judgemental isn't being a true Tool fan.

Drunkelheit, I don't consider you to be a Tool fanboy. I am glad that you were mature about your argument and respected a dissenting opinion.[/QUOTE]
/cliche 15 yr old point

What makes you think that a 15 year old would be any different from you? Perhaps you are more experienced, you've been through more academic courses than me, big deal. I can still get the same or more out of Tool than you, Tool isn't limited to age, btw. I would hold the same opinion I do now at age 20, that is just how I feel about my music. I don't mind leaks. Some do, I don't. It has nothing to do with age.

Alright guys, chill out now, this is getting a little to personal to have any real significance to the thread. It doesn't matter who downloads leaks or not. Do whatever you feel like doing. I just hope in the end you all buy the album.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]That still doesn't give you the right to tell others who don't agree with you that they should be ashamed and aren't true fans. Being a true fan is relative anyways.

Thanks for the support, I'm Charming.[/QUOTE]


Welcome. Just trying to point a few things out.

What if someone only likes a few songs?
What if they only like a couple albums out of many from a band?

Are they not a "true fan"?

Being a narrow minded jerkoff doesn't make you right. In the end all that's at hand is,

Do you want to build up excitment in you and then listen?
Or give into yourself and listen now?

You'll find once your older that this isn't about Tool. It's with everything in life, there are people of both types.

You'll also learn that being narrow minded, argumentitive, judgemental and insults [b]don't make you right[/b].

They just trivialize your opinion.

That was directed @ infinate_ammo

What makes me think a 15 yr old is different from me is that I once 15.

Can you explain to me where the respect lies in downloading the leaked CD?

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]

Can you explain to me where the respect lies in downloading the leaked CD?[/QUOTE]


It's not a matter of respect. Downloading music isn't a moral issue. It's sheer greed by the record companies.

I have no problem at all with supporting a band. IE, go to their shows, grab a shirt and/or a CD or something.

That goes towards the band far more than lining the record labels pockets.

Lemme counter with a question. What if,

Someone downloads a leak, then goes and buys the album?

The respect lies in the fact that I thoroughly enjoy the music I downloaded and have intentions of buying it to support Tool. I'm sure Maynard, Adam, Justin, and Danny aren't sitting around on a couch crying because their album leaked and their fans are downloading it and they are losing money and being disrespected. Its just ridiculous. I'm Charming basically summed it up, so end of conversation.

So who else thinks The Pot is one of Maynard's best vocal performances?

[QUOTE=I'm Charming]
You'll also learn that being narrow minded, argumentitive, judgemental and insults [b]don't make you right[/b].
[/QUOTE]
When hear that some crack addicts hold up a store and kill some innocent people and steal a few grand for some more crack, I think they have done the wrong thing. But maybe I am just being narrow minded, because I am sure in there mind the fact they have now got the money for crack is a good thing.

Wow, the Wings...series is really growing on me. Alot.

[QUOTE=I'm Charming]Someone downloads a leak, then goes and buys the album?[/QUOTE]
Absolutly nothing wrong with this...

i really dont like the album iv listened to it abit

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]When hear that some crack addicts hold up a store and kill some innocent people and steal a few grand for some more crack, I think they have done the wrong thing. But maybe I am just being narrow minded, because I am sure in there mind the fact they have now got the money for crack is a good thing.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry to inform you that no one was killed during the downloading of the leaked Tool album. I repeat: No one was killed.

The Wings series are the best songs on the album in my opinion. I love em.

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]When hear that some crack addicts hold up a store and kill some innocent people and steal a few grand for some more crack, I think they have done the wrong thing. But maybe I am just being narrow minded, because I am sure in there mind the fact they have now got the money for crack is a good thing.[/QUOTE]


What the f[size=2]uc[/size]k is wrong with you?

Care to explain the relevence of Robbery & Drugs to this matter?

Come on... If you're gonna be an asshat, at LEAST stay on topic.

Yeah I'm gonna leave this thread.
Does morality and/or respect belong in music?
I guess not... (dissapointed face)

Does morality even belong anywhere? What is morality? On top of that morality is relative, so my morality differs from yours.

We all have tremendous respect for the members of Tool and for you to suggest otherwise when you barely know any of us is pure ignorance. But you're a stranger, so what do I care?

[QUOTE=infinate_ammo]Yeah I'm gonna leave this thread.
Does morality belong in music?[/QUOTE]


Yes, because everyone holds their own morals.

Some morals almost everyone can agree on. IE, it's wrong to kill someone. You should be honest. etc etc

Many are different within each person.

No morals are right or more. Thus if someone inserts their morals into music, it's their expession of their own self.

Exactly like I said, morality is relative. Read some Neitzsche, infiniteammo.

[QUOTE=deadohiosky9]Exactly like I said, morality is relative. Read some Neitzsche, infiniteammo.[/QUOTE]


That's a very good tip for him.

The Pot is awful. The lyrics are very immature and the vocals horrid. Mainly the intro vocals but most of the time though.

Vicarious was neat.

Wings 1&2 I disliked.

Jambi was alright. Not great nor bad.

[QUOTE=I'm Charming]That's a very good tip for him.

The Pot is awful. The lyrics are very immature and the vocals horrid. Mainly the intro vocals but most of the time though.

Vicarious was neat.

Wings 1&2 I disliked.

Jambi was alright. Not great nor bad.[/QUOTE]the album is horrid

I dont like Maynard's vocals at the beginning of The Pot, but after that the song is very good. My favorite so far is Jambi, followed by Vicarius.

Here's my only arguement, and I will leave it at this once it is said. I am not trying to be an ***, nor am I trying to prove anyone wrong, but here is fact..

Why do you think the band delievered *themselves* the album to listening sessions, and then to only *themselves* take the CD back..?

Why do you think that the band went through these measures after the leak of Lateralus..? Not to mention their open disappointment with the leak..?

Why have Kabir, Blair and the band been vocal about leaks..?

Why do you think Tool went through all of this to just say at the end, "*shrug* Better luck next time..?"?

And finally:

After looking at these questions, how can you possibly think that downlaoding the album is *not* disrespectful to the band..?

I'm surprised you didn't like Wings 1 and 2. Maybe they'll grow on you. I wasn't a fan of The Pot and Jambi at first, but they've really grown on me. I like the immature side of Tool, and I'm glad they aren't afraid to show it. Reminds me of Aenema.