[QUOTE=Eleventeen]My brother's one friend was like, "There's nothing beyond metal, it's all metal," and I was like, "Ao your saying this, :plays Animostiy:, is the same as this :plays Lamented Souls:," and he was like, "Well yeah, it's all metal isn't it?"[/QUOTE]

Try bringing up a version of the book argument.

"Well, if that's the kind of bullsh[size=2]i[/size]t you're going to buy into, I advise you to never walk into a Barnes & Noble. After all, there is no such thing as Mystery, Romance, and Horror. It's all books."

[QUOTE=Steerpike]Try bringing up a version of the book argument.

"Well, if that's the kind of bullsh[size=2]i[/size]t you're going to buy into, I advise you to never walk into a Barnes & Noble. After all, there is no such thing as Mystery, Romance, and Horror. It's all books."[/QUOTE]
That's not a fair parallel. It would be like saying there's no sub genres. Not that there are no genres at all. He didn't say it's all music. Just that it's all metal.

i kinda have to agree with that stupid kid, out of ignorance.


I abhor the sub-genre-ing, in a sense, because i wouldnt want to feel restricted by the genre name i was given...

and the fact that i dont the difference

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]That's not a fair parallel. It would be like saying there's no sub genres. Not that there are no genres at all. He didn't say it's all music. Just that it's all metal.[/QUOTE]

Well, if we're going to be picky...

"You know, books have even more sub-genres than metal, but I don't hear you crying about that."

[QUOTE=Che Guevara]i kinda have to agree with that stupid kid, out of ignorance.


I abhor the sub-genre-ing, in a sense, because i wouldnt want to feel restricted by the genre name i was given...

and the fact that i dont the difference[/QUOTE]

Who says you have to feel restricted? Bathory is labelled as black metal early on and Viking metal later, but I somehow doubt Quorthon ever complained about being restricted.

Sub-genres are only as useful as the level you care about the subject. How many people around here do you think could tell the difference between Neo-Gothic and horror gothic novels? How many do you think care?

Such diverse classification is useful to only one group of people: nerds like yours truly.

[QUOTE=leppermessiah]I bet you won't do very well...[/QUOTE]
Somehow I got a B.
Happy FTW.

I actually find often that when people get really anal about metal subgenres it's when the highest levels of stupidity are reached amongst fans. I personally find it refreshing that a metal fan can actually say "hey, it's ALL metal" in this day and age with all the elitist genre-Nazis running around. I still say that I hardly think that kid's "stupid" for not knowing the completely idiosyncratic differences between the different metal subgenres.

i would actually love to meet the person who either came up with these sub-genres, or is responsible for the labeling of said band, and punch em in the face

It doesn't really bother me, I just call Metal/Thrash.

[QUOTE=Che Guevara]i would actually love to meet the person who either came up with these sub-genres, or is responsible for the labeling of said band, and punch em in the face[/QUOTE]
Because that is worth punching someone in the face for right?

I like genres, but I am also a music nerd so whatev.

It's a nice feeling to not be at school while everyone else is.

NP: Vanity Project - Thank you for Sharing

nah, not much is WORTH a punch in the face, i would just enjoy it is all

Damn, this weather is really despressing, it's rainy and dark.

meh, I want to go out tonight, but I'm not planning on arriving like a drowned cat :-/

np: Finntrol : Födosogan

I know what you mean. The rain annoys me because it makes my hair look shi[size=2]t[/size] and hard to brush.

[QUOTE=Cain]I actually find often that when people get really anal about metal subgenres it's when the highest levels of stupidity are reached amongst fans. I personally find it refreshing that a metal fan can actually say "hey, it's ALL metal" in this day and age with all the elitist genre-Nazis running around. I still say that I hardly think that kid's "stupid" for not knowing the completely idiosyncratic differences between the different metal subgenres.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the confidence boost.

To explain myself a little more eloquently, it's the reasons behind the ignorance that get to me. If someone says "It's all metal" because they simply don't care all that much about the genre, fine. Though I expect them to at least keep an open enough mind to understand that those who are much more devoted to the genre [i]can[/i] tell the difference.

But when someone says "It's all metal," because they claim they don't want to be pigeonholed, that's every bit as obnoxious a behavior as all those black metal bands wanting to have their profiles removed from Metal Archives so they could stay kvlt. Slough Feg has defied almost all genre conventions and is notoriously difficult to classify. But Mike Scalzi never said he didn't want to be pigeonholed, it just happened. "I don't even know what we play anymore. Just call us Slough Feg metal." It doesn't make sense for a band that plays power metal to be crying about the fact that people call them power metal.

Apply this to other facets of the art world. I'm certainly no expert on the works of the Renaissance (having only the experience of one college course on the history of Western art), but I know enough that it would be disrespectful to say to a museum curator, "Why call it Early Renaissance and High Renaissance? It's all just Italian!" You can lump it together as Renaissance or Italian art, but even a minimal amount of research should be enough to tell you that there are differences, no matter how idiosyncratic, and there are people who have devoted a lot of time and effort to studying, classifying, and documenting all of this. It may not be of any use to you, but that's no reason to act as if all their work pales over the "revelation" that it's all just Renaissance art.

Also, take literature. You may not give a rat's [size=2]a[/size]ss about the difference between legal thrillers and medical thrillers. The difference between a Whodunnit? and McGuffin may be entirely irrelevant to you. And d[size=2]a[/size]mned if you know what separates terror Gothic from psychological horror. But these classifications exist for a reason.

And for some bizarre reason, it's mostly in metal that we see the most cases of people on both ends of the spectrum. Elitists which categorically disdain certain genres and end up coming up with subgenres that really mean nothing. And pretentious minimalists who seem to think subgenres are the devil's work.

Either side annoys me, though lately I've been seeing a lot of people in the latter example. There's no right or wrong way to listen to music, view art, or read books. But there is such a thing as going too far. I study sub-genres because this sort of thing genuinely interests me. Amidst a seemingly boundless sea of art, this whole system of genres and subgenres provides me the order I need to keep better track of it. Each one offers up a different paradigm to be explored, and the organization makes it so much easier. Exploring the Neo-Classic melodies and harmonies of certain bands becomes much less of a chore when I know to look in power metal. Finding new achievements in technical virtuosity is easier when I know I can look around in prog and tech death. Wanting to learn more about creating mood and atmosphere, I can quickly look up some doom and Viking metal bands. Can you imagine how much time I'd waste on trial and error otherwise?

This sort of thing is of actual use to some people, including myself. So naturally, you can understand being a little annoyed to hear we're just being labelled as elitists who are overanalyzing everything and told we can just call it "metal" and be done with the whole thing.

[QUOTE=Steerpike]But when someone says "It's all metal," because they claim they don't want to be pigeonholed, that's every bit as obnoxious a behavior as all those black metal bands wanting to have their profiles removed from Metal Archives so they could stay kvlt. Slough Feg has defied almost all genre conventions and is notoriously difficult to classify. But Mike Scalzi never said he didn't want to be pigeonholed, it just happened. "I don't even know what we play anymore. Just call us Slough Feg metal."[B] It doesn't make sense for a band that plays power metal to be crying about the fact that people call them power metal[/B].[/QUOTE]
HammerFall are the same, they say they only play heavy metal, but it's not really.
personally, i tend to use genres quite loosely anyway, as i'm always on the look-out for new music, and i just use them as a rough guide on what to expect.

[QUOTE=Steerpike]Try bringing up a version of the book argument.

"Well, if that's the kind of bullsh[size=2]i[/size]t you're going to buy into, I advise you to never walk into a Barnes & Noble. After all, there is no such thing as Mystery, Romance, and Horror. It's all books."[/QUOTE]

I normally use, no, that's too broad, it's not metal, it's music... actually it's sound!

as far as a band not wanting to be classified under specific genre, i can understand that. People might draw parallels with them, to other bands in that genre, and they might be offended, as if they music is completely different.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]I normally use, no, that's too broad, it's not metal, it's music... actually it's sound![/QUOTE]
fuk j00, its the laws of physics working its magic

[QUOTE=Kingofdudes]fuk j00, its the laws of physics working its magic[/QUOTE]

:lol: no, it's just Science in action.

Damn this Vintersorg album is freaking huge.

how big is huge?
Vintersorg is a great singer

[QUOTE=Kingofdudes]how big is huge?
Vintersorg is a great singer[/QUOTE]
123 mb in a .rar file

[QUOTE=Kingofdudes]how big is huge?
Vintersorg is a great singer[/QUOTE]

HIZ RL NAME IZ ANDREAS!!1

[QUOTE=Che Guevara]as far as a band not wanting to be classified under specific genre, i can understand that. People might draw parallels with them, to other bands in that genre, and they might be offended, as if they music is completely different.[/QUOTE]

In the first wave of black metal, Venom did not like being considered part of the same movement as Bathory because they thought Quorthon was an [size=2]a[/size]sshole who was ripping off their act. But why should we care?

Black Sabbath still don't like being called metal. They consider themselves heavy blues rock. But they are still considered in canon a metal band.

Far too few artists understand that they don't name their style. Their fans have more say in defining their role in music than they themselves do. That's the way way it's always been.

Chuck Schuldiner didn't wake up one day and say, "I'm going to invent death metal now." Even though that would have been pretty cool. At the time, he saw himself as playing first wave black metal like Venom, Bathory, and Celtic Frost.

Napalm Death originally formed as a hardcore punk band. They didn't set out to invent grindcore. It just happened. And after Lee left, they migrated toward death metal as a natural progression.

Speaking of Lee, Cathedral was originally a doom metal band, but are now more stoner metal than anything else.

See where I'm going with this? Artists very rarely have a say in how the rest of the community defines their work. Just because a band with power metal melodies and harsh vocals doesn't feel like being classified in the same subgenre as Children of Bodom doesn't mean they're going to get their way in that regard.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]HIZ RL NAME IZ ANDREAS!!1[/QUOTE]
andreas mo like fagreas

There are too many 5's in the recent album ratings box on sputnik

NP: Starblast - Pillars of Salt

Yeah, I see where you're going, and aside from Venom, those bands all pwned.

[QUOTE=Kingofdudes]andreas mo like fagreas

There are too many 5's in the recent album ratings box on sputnik[/QUOTE]

That'd probably be the work of fanboys... I mean, look at my Overcast review, I [I]absolutely love that album[/I] and I only gave it a 4.

NP: Avenged Sevenfold - Chapter Four

back to tha rootz son!@1

[QUOTE=Steerpike]In the first wave of black metal, Venom did not like being considered part of the same movement as Bathory because they thought Quorthon was an [size=2]a[/size]sshole who was ripping off their act. But why should we care?

Black Sabbath still don't like being called metal. They consider themselves heavy blues rock. But they are still considered in canon a metal band.

Far too few artists understand that they don't name their style. Their fans have more say in defining their role in music than they themselves do. That's the way way it's always been.

Chuck Schuldiner didn't wake up one day and say, "I'm going to invent death metal now." Even though that would have been pretty cool. At the time, he saw himself as playing first wave black metal like Venom, Bathory, and Celtic Frost.

Napalm Death originally formed as a hardcore punk band. They didn't set out to invent grindcore. It just happened. And after Lee left, they migrated toward death metal as a natural progression.

Speaking of Lee, Cathedral was originally a doom metal band, but are now more stoner metal than anything else.

See where I'm going with this? Artists very rarely have a say in how the rest of the community defines their work. Just because a band with power metal melodies and harsh vocals doesn't feel like being classified in the same subgenre as Children of Bodom doesn't mean they're going to get their way in that regard.[/QUOTE]



i saw your plight from the start man. I think we are talking about different things. I was just backing up the artists POV

Hey Eleventeen i made a thread with your name in the title.

A while back.

Its now dissapeared.

[QUOTE=Arucard]Hey Eleventeen i made a thread with your name in the title.

A while back.

Its now dissapeared.[/QUOTE]

Was it in a negative context?

EDIT: found it, mind if I bump it?

No.

Why would i worry about mindless advertising of my band?

[QUOTE=Arucard]No.

Why would i worry about mindless advertising of my band?[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly...

rofl, I accidentally called you Jom instead of Joe, damn thread title.

/edit time