I do not have an album title yet.

you dont gnome me

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution;15653495]As much a pseudo-science psychology is[/QUOTE]

What! Just because it's been around for only a couple hundred years doesn't make it a fake science. It is a science that seeks to understand behavior and mental processes and to apply that understanding in the service of human welfare. They study, predict, improve, and explain phenomenon just as much as a chemist or a physicist.

[QUOTE=Eliminator;15653845]i had saturday school today but the fire alarm went off so the teacher let us out an hour early

in other news idk why i like making album covery things for stuff that doesn't exist

[url]http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9039/visage2452lr4.jpg[/url]

heavy metuhl[/QUOTE]

you should work on album art for peoples, tis fun.

Nick you should make an album cover for Three 6 Mafia.

[quote=i am the robots;15653912]you should work on album art for peoples, tis fun.[/quote]


^^^The man speaks the truth, and he's good at it.

[QUOTE=EightMilesHigh;15653931]Nick you should make an album cover for Three 6 Mafia.[/QUOTE]

this

[QUOTE=guitrguy;15653878]No they weren't tested. They would have to do a brain tap (I forget the proper medical term) for that. I have been dealing with it since I was in middle school. I'd had friends in school, I was never bullied, and I have loving parents. I've never been abused. If its not a chemical depression, then I don't know what would be the reason. But I found a prescription thats works, and started self-therapy. The combination of both has left me a more confident and happier person. I'm not saying that what works for me works for everyone, but I see no reason for medication to not be an acceptable treatment.

Thats still not enough to make a blanket conclusion for other people.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. So you were diagnosed with a physiological illness without being physiologically tested for the illness. How can you fail to see the problem with that? Whether or not you can come up with alternate explanations is irrelevant, because it doesn't prove that you have that imbalance. It merely proves you believe in your treatment and, go figure, that's a key element to a treatment's successs (see: the placebo effect) so good for you. Medication is not an aceptable treatment when you treat a physiological problem without determining whether or not that problem actually exists scientifically. The fact of the matter is I could be completely happy, walk into a doctor's office saying i want to commit suicide and i need drugs, and I would get them if not on the first try then definitely within 10, no problems.

Of course it is. I not only criticize the current methods, I present alternatives which produce the same results without having to put ever American on drugs. It's much more than the mindless insult you're accusing it of being, it's a well thought out critique of the modern health care system in the US with suggestions for improvement and proper health care. I said early on that medicinal treatment was acceptable, but only if it was the only way to treat something, not as a first step to treating something as it stands currently.

Jom: I think psychology is 100% bullshit, just a personal opinion. There's some statistical relevance to some of the things mentioned but it's a product of capitalist invention and not the most effective solution in most things it's prescribed for.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution;15653959]Exactly. So you were diagnosed with a physiological illness without being physiologically tested for the illness. How can you fail to see the problem with that? Whether or not you can come up with alternate explanations is irrelevant, because it doesn't prove that you have that imbalance. It merely proves you believe in your treatment and, go figure, that's a key element to a treatment's successs (see: the placebo effect) so good for you. Medication is not an aceptable treatment when you treat a physiological problem without determining whether or not that problem actually exists scientifically. The fact of the matter is I could be completely happy, walk into a doctor's office saying i want to commit suicide and i need drugs, and I would get them if not on the first try then definitely within 10, no problems.[/QUOTE]If it was merely placebo the first medication I tried would have worked. The treatment of metal illness is trial and error, because it is too risky to tap the brain for chemical analysis. I agree its too easy to get a medication, but that is a reflection of the doctors not the patient or treatment. If it is placebo, it at least is doing something for me.
[QUOTE]
Of course it is. I not only criticize the current methods, I present alternatives which produce the same results without having to put ever American on drugs. It's much more than the mindless insult you're accusing it of being, it's a well thought out critique of the modern health care system in the US with suggestions for improvement and proper health care. I said early on that medicinal treatment was acceptable, but only if it was the only way to treat something, not as a first step to treating something as it stands currently.[/QUOTE]
You present methods based on you personal experience, that from previous posts that show that they aren't working that well. The tone you take with medication is insulting because you make it out to be purely an easy way out for doctors and patients, which is an unfair and over exaggerated statement.

[QUOTE=guitrguy;15654025]If it was merely placebo the first medication I tried would have worked. The treatment of metal illness is trial and error, because it is too risky to tap the brain for chemical analysis. I agree its too easy to get a medication, but that is a reflection of the doctors not the patient or treatment. If it is placebo, it at least is doing something for me.

You present methods based on you personal experience, that from previous posts that show that they aren't working that well. The tone you take with medication is insulting because you make it out to be purely an easy way out for doctors and patients, which is an unfair and over exaggerated statement.[/QUOTE]
But if it's too risky to know for sure then why isn't it too risky to be guessing? Don't even blame the doctors man. It's all a reflection of the consumerist mindset and direct-to-consumer advertising. If a patient comes in and wants a drug, and a doctor doesn't give it to them, they just go to a doctor who will. No one cares what doctors say anymore they're just a gate you need to open to get a drug. Like I said, I'm glad it works for you, but I don't advocate that method for the general populous.

No they've actually worked quite well for me, by just forcing myself to keep a more positive mindset over years of work I've managed to improve my mental health quite a bit. The fact that I have more work to do isn't evidence of its failure. Medication is an easy out. How easy is it to pop a pill versus taking action to actually improve your own life?

Jom: My old post didn't edit until after I got out of the shower, sorry.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution;15654066]But if it's too risky to know for sure then why isn't it too risky to be guessing? Don't even blame the doctors man. It's all a reflection of the consumerist mindset and direct-to-consumer advertising. If a patient comes in and wants a drug, and a doctor doesn't give it to them, they just go to a doctor who will. No one cares what doctors say anymore they're just a gate you need to open to get a drug. Like I said, I'm glad it works for you, but I don't advocate that method for the general populous.[/QUOTE]Last time I checked you don;t have to breach the skull to take a pill. I see where you are coming from, but thats a problem in the system. We should fix the system and not single out treatment.
[QUOTE]
No they've actually worked quite well for me, by just forcing myself to keep a more positive mindset over years of work I've managed to improve my mental health quite a bit. The fact that I have more work to do isn't evidence of its failure. Medication is an easy out. How easy is it to pop a pill versus taking action to actually improve your own life?

Jom: My old post didn't edit until after I got out of the shower, sorry.[/QUOTE]Its a combination of both, and its naive to think otherwise. My doctor told me from the beginning that for me to really combat my depression, I need some sort of therapy (I personally found self therapy more effective) in addition to the medication.

Its not evidence of failure, but its not evidence of success either.

[QUOTE=pate;15653893]I do not have an album title yet.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7733/ragnarok2bo2.jpg[/url]

HEAVYMETUHL

[QUOTE=guitrguy;15654144]Last time I checked you don;t have to breach the skull to take a pill. I see where you are coming from, but thats a problem in the system. We should fix the system and not single out treatment.

Its a combination of both, and its naive to think otherwise. My doctor told me from the beginning that for me to really combat my depression, I need some sort of therapy (I personally found self therapy more effective) in addition to the medication.

Its not evidence of failure, but its not evidence of success either.[/QUOTE]
No, you don't have to breach the skull, but drugging your body full of unnatural chemicals the rest fo your life doesn't sound very safe to me either. I am addressing a problem in the system. I'm in no way singling out treatment. The system has problems with over-diagnosis, treatment, and an assorment of other issues. I addressed more than just treatment.

It's not naive at all. If smiling can raise serotonin levels in the brain, why should I be dumped on chemicals without first engaging in other treatments? The fact is the body can combat depression very well on its own and clinical depression could be solved without medication. Chronic depression is the only case you should need to medicate people, because the levels are so low the body does need some help. The problem is exactly in your statement. Your doctor gave you pills and said you needed to do other things. It should be the exact opposite. Your doctor should tell you to do other things and if there's evidence you can only completely solve the problem with a medcinal supplement, fine. But that would not be the case so often if we as a society addressed the problems that are resulting in such a high rate of depression and spent less time medicating the entire nation.

How is not evidence of success? The method is working to great effect. Those who know me notice a bit of difference in how happy I am, that's success in my mind.

[QUOTE=Eliminator;15654146][url]http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7733/ragnarok2bo2.jpg[/url]

HEAVYMETUHL[/QUOTE]

Holy s[size=2]hit[/size] that owns.

But the album I'm doing now isn't for WoR. The band name is Ashen Winds, and it's like a power/thrash thing.

But that cover definitely gets archived for future WoR albums, with your permission. :p

Your avatar should be the cover of any WoR release.

[QUOTE=ArrestThisMan;15654234]Your avatar should be the cover of any WoR release.[/QUOTE]

*every

Wrath of Ragnarok - Penis Hat

's got a certain ring to it, eh?



lol I post "eh?" and a Canadian shows up.

Just change the hat for each album.

:lol:

The working title for Deflagration was Divergence, and a friend came up with this:

[url]http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u112/MAkerfeldt/DIVERGENCE.jpg[/url]

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution;15654186]No, you don't have to breach the skull, but drugging your body full of unnatural chemicals the rest fo your life doesn't sound very safe to me either. I am addressing a problem in the system. I'm in no way singling out treatment. The system has problems with over-diagnosis, treatment, and an assorment of other issues. I addressed more than just treatment.[/QUOTE]Serotonin is natural.

[QUOTE]It's not naive at all.[/QUOTE]
I was referring specifically to medication alone.

[QUOTE]If smiling can raise serotonin levels in the brain, why should I be dumped on chemicals without first engaging in other treatments? The fact is the body can combat depression very well on its own and clinical depression could be solved without medication. Chronic depression is the only case you should need to medicate people, because the levels are so low the body does need some help. The problem is exactly in your statement. Your doctor gave you pills and said you needed to do other things. It should be the exact opposite. Your doctor should tell you to do other things and if there's evidence you can only completely solve the problem with a medcinal supplement, fine. But that would not be the case so often if we as a society addressed the problems that are resulting in such a high rate of depression and spent less time medicating the entire nation.[/QUOTE]Thats why you fix the system. To debunk medication because of the inability of doctors to diagnose correctly is absurd. You have to show the medication does not work to debunk the medication. Looking at societal problems and claiming them to be reasons why medication doesn't work makes no sense.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the point that we do as a nation misdiagnose clinical depression, and over prescribe anti-depressants, but that doesn't take away from its ability to be properly used.

[QUOTE]How is not evidence of success? The method is working to great effect. Those who know me notice a bit of difference in how happy I am, that's success in my mind.[/QUOTE]But thats not success to say you're idea of treatment works fully to the end. I'm not saying ti won't, but you don't know until you're there.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution;15653959]Jom: I think psychology is 100% bullpoop, just a personal opinion. There's some statistical relevance to some of the things mentioned but it's a product of capitalist invention and not the most effective solution in most things it's prescribed for.[/QUOTE]

Psychology is not a "solution" for anything, it is a science.


All the stuff you're ranting about in here is [b]psychiatry[/b], perhaps that is what you mean?

[QUOTE=guitrguy;15654248]Serotonin is natural.

I was referring specifically to medication alone.

Thats why you fix the system. To debunk medication because of the inability of doctors to diagnose correctly is absurd. You have to show the medication does not work to debunk the medication. Looking at societal problems and claiming them to be reasons why medication doesn't work makes no sense.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the point that we do as a nation misdiagnose clinical depression, and over prescribe anti-depressants, but that doesn't take away from its ability to be properly used.

But thats not success to say you're idea of treatment works fully to the end. I'm not saying ti won't, but you don't know until you're there.[/QUOTE]
Anti-depressants are not just a hit of serotonin though. =\

But that's what a large number of people rely on.

I'm not claiming medication doesn't work, read my posts ffs. I'm saying it's a bad solution to the problem. And again, doctors might know full well they're giving a patient medication they don't need. But they have to give it to them to keep them as their patients. That doesn't make them incompetent, it makes them capitalists.

Yes it does because if you're overusing it then it's not properly used.

I know it won't work to the very end with me, because I know that there are times my serotonin drops out, but that's ok because I'm not trying to find an all encompassing solution for myself because I know that's an exercise in futility. But I'm working to find a better system for the general populous.
[QUOTE=Kage;15654275]Psychology is not a "solution" for anything, it is a science.

All the stuff you're ranting about in here is [b]psychiatry[/b], perhaps that is what you mean?[/QUOTE]
No I mean both really. "science" based on statistics is debatably scientific at best.

But many branches of psychology have nothing to do with the issue you're talking about.

If you don't think it's a good science, just look at it as a "discipline" that employs the scientific method for it studies. :shrug:

[QUOTE=pate;15654226]Holy s[size=2]hit[/size] that owns.

But the album I'm doing now isn't for WoR. The band name is Ashen Winds, and it's like a power/thrash thing.

But that cover definitely gets archived for future WoR albums, with your permission. :p[/QUOTE]

old non-copyrighted pictures ftw

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution;15654313]Anti-depressants are not just a hit of serotonin though. =\[/QUOTE]Its not, but they other chemicals are not that detrimental, and if you do have adverse effects it is advised to stop the medication.
[QUOTE]
But that's what a large number of people rely on.[/QUOTE]
Thats why you fix this system, not just end the treatment.
[QUOTE]I'm not claiming medication doesn't work, read my posts ffs. I'm saying it's a bad solution to the problem.[/QUOTE]
Then why are you so vehement about discrediting it as treatment?

[QUOTE]And again, doctors might know full well they're giving a patient medication they don't need. But they have to give it to them to keep them as their patients. That doesn't make them incompetent, it makes them capitalists.[/QUOTE]
I think you are relying on suspicion to male that point.
[QUOTE]Yes it does because if you're overusing it then it's not properly used.[/QUOTE]That says nothing about the medication itself.

[QUOTE]I know it won't work to the very end with me, because I know that there are times my serotonin drops out, but that's ok because I'm not trying to find an all encompassing solution for myself because I know that's an exercise in futility. But I'm working to find a better system for the general populous.
[/QUOTE]Thats great, but its unfair to discredit treatment A while not providing a better and tested alternative.

Well, I've never dumped on engineers, so of course I'm going to be a little annoyed that you're pissing all over what I am going to start doing in January (not saying you're pissing all over educators, but whatever). I'm with Kage; I think you are confusing psychiatry with psychology. It IS a science that seeks to understand behavior and mental processes and to apply that understanding in the service of human welfare. They study, predict, improve, and explain phenomenon just as much as any "Vince-approved" scientist. There are so many sub-fields in psych (biological, developmental, cognitive, personality, educational, social, etc.), and they oftentimes overlap. Instead of just speculating about why, for instance, people eat as much (or as little) as they do, they look for answers by using the scientific method. They perform experiments and other scientific procedures to systematically gather and analyze information about behavior and mental processes and then base their conclusions and their next questions on the results of these procedures. It may not deal with gravity or accelerometers but it is a science.

[QUOTE=Kage;15654321]But many branches of psychology have nothing to do with the issue you're talking about.

If you don't think it's a good science, just look at it as a "discipline" that employs the scientific method for it studies. :shrug:[/QUOTE]
I could agree to that. I mean, I'm a big proponent of sociology, so don't take my criticisms of its methods to mean that I think it's totally useless, it's just not in my mind as much a science as it claims to be. There's some useful stuff in there but overall I still see it as too bloated with bs, especially as an alleged science.

You guys aren't very good at distracting me from my work.

More beer, women, video games, and drugs talk please.

Newcastle is good.

I need a break from the debate, tbh.

[QUOTE]Racing down the motorway, I am a mean machine
Speeding like a bullet, we are the wreaking team
Bang our heads to heavy metal, thrashing through the night
Beating up the fa[I]g[/I]gots, we are here to start a fight

If you don't like our metal then you're a f[I]uc[/I]king fool
Fu[I]c[/I]king loads of sluts and drinking loads of booze
Studded wrists and bullet belts its metal all the way
If you're not into metal then you are fu[I]cki[/I]ng gay

Be prepared we're as fast as lightning
Motorhead and lots of fighting
Lots of chains on the walls in our chamber
Pumped up we're full of anger
Playing metal as loud as we can
All men fu[I]cki[/I]ng play it on ten

We're here to fight baby, we are the ones
We're into metal here are our guns
We like the speed and the fury from hell
Come play with fire you're under our spell
Come with me, one night in hell
You will succumb the DEMONIAC SPELL

We're here to fight baby, we are the ones
We're into metal here are our guns
We like the speed and the fury from hell
Come play with fire you're under our spell
Come with me, one night in hell
You will succumb the DEMONIAC SPELL

Raging Pyromaniac and nothing will survive
Holocaustic Terrorist
We will watch and see you die!
[/QUOTE]

yeah this thread is srs business lately

Thread needs more Bloodhag:

[url]http://b7.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00498/74/35/498885347_l.jpg[/url]

[QUOTE=guitrguy;15654344]Its not, but they other chemicals are not that detrimental, and if you do have adverse effects it is advised to stop the medication.

Thats why you fix this system, not just end the treatment.

Then why are you so vehement about discrediting it as treatment?


I think you are relying on suspicion to male that point.
That says nothing about the medication itself.

Thats great, but its unfair to discredit treatment A while not providing a better and tested alternative.[/QUOTE]
The other chemicals are definitely detrimental. You don't see the adverse effects right away though. Here's a few though: addiction, tolerances, introducing non-naturally occuring chemicals to a biological system...

Fixing the system includes stopping medicalization though.

Because so many people are so vehement about it being a good method of treatment. Polarization begets polarization.

I'll send you some articles about it if you're interested.

It doesn't need to. If you abuse medication as a society you should be looking at the effects of that medication regardless of whether or not it works as intended. And anti-depressants are one of the most prone to not working like they're supposed to. I forget which one it is...maybe Paxil...but it actually increased suicide rates in teenagers so yeh.

Sorry I don't have the funding to run gigantic social studies to prove that my ideas are superior to the current model, I will no longer think about such things because I don't have the funding to back up my ideas with statistics bs.
[QUOTE=Jom;15654358]Well, I've never dumped on engineers, so of course I'm going to be a little annoyed that you're pissing all over what I am going to start doing in January (not saying you're pissing all over educators, but whatever). I'm with Kage; I think you are confusing psychiatry with psychology. It IS a science that seeks to understand behavior and mental processes and to apply that understanding in the service of human welfare. They study, predict, improve, and explain phenomenon just as much as any "Vince-approved" scientist. There are so many sub-fields in psych (biological, developmental, cognitive, personality, educational, social, etc.), and they oftentimes overlap. Instead of just speculating about why, for instance, people eat as much (or as little) as they do, they look for answers by using the scientific method. They perform experiments and other scientific procedures to systematically gather and analyze information about behavior and mental processes and then base their conclusions and their next questions on the results of these procedures. It may not deal with gravity or accelerometers but it is a science.[/QUOTE]
To be fair I would **** all over a lot of engineering too so I think you're taking it too harshly. The fact of the matter is that when you're relying on data like surveys or studies of human behavior, you have to rely on statistical analysis to evaluate your solutions. There's just too much human error throughout and it's almost impossble to generate equal samples of humans so trying to study them is so sketchy because you can't account for the many other variables.

But you're giving the impression that that's the only kind of research done, and that is not accurate.

[QUOTE=Jom;15654459]But you're giving the impression that that's the only kind of research done, and that is not accurate.[/QUOTE]
But any of the actual scientific work done isn't actual psychology in my mind. When you research the neuron response of the brain to a stimulus, you're a biologist, not a psychologist. I dont know maybe I have a misrepresentation of the field but to my understanding I think my reasoning is solid.

[QUOTE=Jom;15653911]What! Just because it's been around for only a couple hundred years doesn't make it a fake science. It is a science that seeks to understand behavior and mental processes and to apply that understanding in the service of human welfare. They study, predict, improve, and explain phenomenon just as much as a chemist or a physicist.[/QUOTE]

Man, psychologists creep me out.

Zoologists and biologists will dissect a mouse after it's dead to find out how it works.

Psychologists will dissect it while it's still alive. :-/

....5 hours later......


Good God Vince, I'm sure there's things to entertain you on Mill Ave.

[QUOTE=Invicta_Veritas;15654542]....5 hours later......


Good God Vince, I'm sure there's things to entertain you on Mill Ave.[/QUOTE]
I'm distractedly writing an essay =)

I'm going out around 9 so meh.

So who's celebrating Dimebag's death today? Yay, he's dead.

I am

thank ****

I'm listening to The Bad Plus in spite of him.