Yeah, thank god for that too.

As far as gay marriage, this country just really needs to wake up and stop being so ignorant. Too many of the people in power would rather cite the Bible as a code for setting social norms than the Constitution or history and common sense for that matter. Since when is it our job to impose on other people, especially in the case of love. That's why I support marijuana legalization and abortion. I think abortion is a brutal practice but I would never infringe on someone's choice on whether or not it's a horrible thing to do.

i generally feel like killing people who try talking to me about politics when they are either extreme right or left aligned.

it's like hitting your face into a wall over and over again listening to them.

[QUOTE=cbmartinez;13592141]Yeah, thank god for that too.

As far as gay marriage, this country just really needs to wake up and stop being so ignorant. Too many of the people in power would rather cite the Bible as a code for setting social norms than the Constitution or history and common sense for that matter. Since when is it our job to impose on other people, especially in the case of love. That's why I support marijuana legalization and abortion. I think abortion is a brutal practice but I would never infringe on someone's choice on whether or not it's a horrible thing to do.[/QUOTE]

cultural lag, nigga.

I agree completely on abortion. Ive always felt that if i was in a position of a woman with abortion as an option, i wouldnt get one since I dont really agree with it, but I wouldnt try and make it illegal.

I never understood why marijuana was illegal. I heard some outrageous statistic about how many people are filling up prisons on minor sentences dealing with marijuana and how much money goes into keeping these prisons going, and it really pushed me over to the side that believes weed should be legal, or at least that there should be less of a penalty dealing with it.

It should be treated like alcohol, where you just cant be high in public or anything.

cultural lag.

can we please not have another one of these.. hey look we say things that have been said politically a million times.

it's like PUNKVOTER.COM took out rental space in the emo thread.

ha.

Yeah, I forgot, were not allowed to say what we think in here anymore.

free thought?

cultural lag

cobert ya gots b respctfall nig.

yop lol

Ack, dont even bring that up, that was ugly.

Some dude in pop-punk refuses to believe that Grade in any way influenced the genre we all call popcore. I guess he think Saosin thougt up all of this stuff on their own.

Anyone in here like Team Sleep?

They ****ing rule.

Zach Hill on drums. gahhhhhhh

Ugh, please don't associate a band as good as Grade with a band as terrible as Saosin even if Grade did influence that whole genre of sound.

so i take it you don't like TSOAF?

lolololololooollllllllllkololololoolololololo

haha

pop punk forum

haha

someone post the link to that video of OTMOP doing For Meg and everyone singing along.

city of caterpillar owns so hard jesus i neglect this band

today i saw a fat emo kid, it was so akward.

in before the "ash"

guess who just got ****ing No Heroes in the mail in one of those bad *** spray painted packages.

I downloaded that new Circle Takes The Square live track from Starland that I saw them play from their site. I still think it's way mediocre compared to their other stuff.

is that the spaghetti one?

if it is, that song is great

i'm not happy about this, and i'll state why. i am mostly libertarian on the issues you guys have been mentioning like homosexuality, marijuana, abortion, ect, and therefore in disagreement with the republican party. however, i think we are currently faced with issues more critical to our future.

i care most about international relations, economics, smaller government, ect. on all those republicans in general are the better choice. pie in the sky liberals have too much power in the democratic party. what happened to joe lieberman, who would have my vote for president if he ran, is a great example of how realistic views have little place in that party.

its scary that there are many in the democratic party that actually want to force a withdrawal from iraq. whether you agreed with going in or not is largely irrelavant. now that we are there, we can't leave that country in this condition. it has to be stabilized before we can withdraw, and that will take years longer.

also, i don't agree with many democrats' economic views, like their desire to raise minimum wage again or their opposition to freer trade. we need to maintain our economic position in the world by efficiency through competition. if some guy in india or china can do a low level american job for 1/10 the wage, but at a favorable 1/8 productivity, then we should focus on training our workforce to do more skilled jobs, not futilely protecting those unskilled jobs.

also, i would like less government. i think there should be more privitazation or simply the elimination of some government services. there should be more personal responsibility. environmental policy is a great example. i know many people that demand that the government take actions that will cost hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars in order to protect the environment. yet they drive cars that get 15 mpg, leave all the lights on in their house continuously, throw all kinds of stuff away that is still useful in order to get the newest and best, ect. i think if individuals relied on the government less and themselves more, we would be better off. on this republicans are the lesser of two evils.

but that said, there are some up sides to this. hopefully bush's dumbass tax cuts will get repealed. on the same note, i hope the republican party in general returns to policies of fiscal restraint. also, rumsfeld leaving is a good thing. he did have some good ideas about modernization and force structure, but he refused to accept that those models, while not necessarilly wrong, didn't apply to the current war. this resulted in a culture of denial emerging in the pentagon that was almost reminiscent of the vietnam war. i don't know much about his potential replacement yet, but a cia man bodes well. hopefully now we can deal with the war in a more realistic manner, which is the key to winning. we need to recognize that this will be a long and difficult process. once we do that, we can use more appropriate strategies.

[QUOTE=World Burns To Death;13592532]someone post the link to that video of OTMOP doing For Meg and everyone singing along.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://media.putfile.com/formeg[/url]

i posted it in here not too long ago, and nobody cared.

Sorry to make you feel bad but you can't win a war on terror. It's like winning the war on drugs, until there is no such thing as terrorism (which is never) the war will be considered a loss.

On Iraq, I'm sorry but if they are having a civil war let them keep it a civil war and not drag in international forces (aka Us) and have foreign bodies blood shed. Bush needs to be impeached because he and his administration are responsible for the entire breakdown of the government of Iraq, yes Sadaam was bad and I'm glad he's gone, but this shouldn't be the result of the removal of political figure.

I hate the idea of our country sticking our nose where ever the hell it pleases, but if it's going to be an International Police Force then it should focus on areas of the world that need some serious help. Uganda perhaps? I hope after the 2008 election whoever the victor is that they result to slowly withdraw the United States from a point of power and back into a policy of isolationism. Washington's Farewell Address was absolutely most correct document on foreign policy.


By the way this isn't supposed to an intelligent summation of my views, but a quick overview in response to srt-4's post.

[QUOTE=srt-4;13593156][url]http://media.putfile.com/formeg[/url]

i posted it in here not too long ago, and nobody cared.[/QUOTE]
i cared!!!

If Republicans were so great at handling foreign relations, economics etc etc. they probably should've fixed it in the six years they've had to do it themselves

I guess they're just not cut out for that though

Also your environmental talk only proves that the government should make environmental sanctions since it clearly doesn't work in a privatized or personal manner

I seriously could care less if we pulled out of Iraq, I didn't want to be there in the first place and only a complete fool would think it's going to work as a democracy due to our actions over there

[QUOTE=cobert;13592384]Some dude in pop-punk refuses to believe that Grade in any way influenced the genre we all call popcore. I guess he think Saosin thougt up all of this stuff on their own.[/QUOTE]

trying to get that kid to open his eyes was hard. needs to do his homework.

also good call on team sleep, i really like that record. Zach Hill is pretty phenomenal.

you can't just invade a country, tear it apart, and then leave it in a fierce civil war.

obviously troops should be pulled but a gradually pull will save more face and hold better for iraq itself than a full withdrawal

also i would not call bush's mistakes the mistakes of republicanism

[QUOTE=Matt?;13593287]you can't just invade a country, tear it apart, and then leave it in a fierce civil war.

obviously troops should be pulled but a gradually pull will save more face and hold better for iraq itself than a full withdrawal[/QUOTE]
Of course we don't want to just pull everyone since that would immediately destabilize the region and make us look bad

But to be quite honest I expect Iraq to go down the ****ter whether we're there or not, a civil war is likely regardless of us being there or not

A phased withdrawal works, but staying there is just making things worse for both countries
[QUOTE]also i would not call bush's mistakes the mistakes of republicanism[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't either, I'd call his administration's and the House/Senate's mistakes the mistakes of conservatism

[QUOTE=srt-4;13593065]i'm not happy about this, and i'll state why. i am mostly libertarian on the issues you guys have been mentioning like homosexuality, marijuana, abortion, ect, and therefore in disagreement with the republican party. however, i think we are currently faced with issues more critical to our future.

i care most about international relations, economics, smaller government, ect. on all those republicans in general are the better choice. pie in the sky liberals have too much power in the democratic party. what happened to joe lieberman, who would have my vote for president if he ran, is a great example of how realistic views have little place in that party.

its scary that there are many in the democratic party that actually want to force a withdrawal from iraq. whether you agreed with going in or not is largely irrelavant. now that we are there, we can't leave that country in this condition. it has to be stabilized before we can withdraw, and that will take years longer.

also, i don't agree with many democrats' economic views, like their desire to raise minimum wage again or their opposition to freer trade. we need to maintain our economic position in the world by efficiency through competition. if some guy in india or china can do a low level american job for 1/10 the wage, but at a favorable 1/8 productivity, then we should focus on training our workforce to do more skilled jobs, not futilely protecting those unskilled jobs.

also, i would like less government. i think there should be more privitazation or simply the elimination of some government services. there should be more personal responsibility. environmental policy is a great example. i know many people that demand that the government take actions that will cost hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars in order to protect the environment. yet they drive cars that get 15 mpg, leave all the lights on in their house continuously, throw all kinds of stuff away that is still useful in order to get the newest and best, ect. i think if individuals relied on the government less and themselves more, we would be better off. on this republicans are the lesser of two evils.

but that said, there are some up sides to this. hopefully bush's dumbass tax cuts will get repealed. on the same note, i hope the republican party in general returns to policies of fiscal restraint. also, rumsfeld leaving is a good thing. he did have some good ideas about modernization and force structure, but he refused to accept that those models, while not necessarilly wrong, didn't apply to the current war. this resulted in a culture of denial emerging in the pentagon that was almost reminiscent of the vietnam war. i don't know much about his potential replacement yet, but a cia man bodes well. hopefully now we can deal with the war in a more realistic manner, which is the key to winning. we need to recognize that this will be a long and difficult process. once we do that, we can use more appropriate strategies.[/QUOTE]

I definitely do not agree with the cut and run ideal and I think most of the Democratic party knows that cutting and running would do more damage then good. Leaving Iraq in shambles would serve as a breeding ground for terrorism and basically make us more enemies than when we went in. But the fact is, secretarian violence is killing our troops and something needs to be done about it. I personally think Joe Biden's proposition should be looked into. But the bottom line, there is far too much secretarian violence and the newly formed Iraqi govt cannot handle it. Especially seeing how their police forces are made up of Sunnis who have the people of Iraq dumbfounded as to whom to trust because they see Shi'ite's being murdered by Sunni extremists in Iraqi police garb.

As far as environmental policy, I think the Democrats are more in favor of alternative energy sources than the big business GOP. A few days ago, George Bush all but stated that we were still in Iraq because we want control of their oil reserves.