I see what you mean but it just seems way too different than the others. I don't see them really having the same background.

[QUOTE=Steerpike]Many early metal bands were fond of using the flat fifth interval to create a heavier, more dissonant sound. They also used higher levels of distortion to get heavier riffage and controlled feedback to create more intense solos. They essentially stepped up everything that came before them to the next level.

For me, what defines metal is this hard rock/heavy backbone on which the musicians continue to experiment with new paradigms in heaviness.

Thrash metal uses the visceral elements of punk.
Black metal uses low-key production and speed with inhuman vocals to create a cacophanous sound.
Death metal shoves everything to the breaking point, drums, guitars, bass, vocals, the whole package.
Power metal seeks to pioneer the highest level of melodic sensibility in heavy music.
Nu-metal is on the episode side of the spectrum experimenting with rhythm centric music by fusing it with styles that have distinct rhythmic styles.[/QUOTE]

Also, look at what's going on now in America, just a lot of mixing between the melodic sub-styles of said metal genres.

[quote=Eleventeen]In Flames is not metalcore. Converge is metalcore. Avenged Sevenfold is metalcore. Overcast is metalcore. Rambo is metalcore. Municipal Waste is metalcore. Aftershock is metalcore.

In Flames is freaking Gothenburg metal.

Hatebreed is not hardcore, they're just really bad metal. Really really bad metal.

Some hardcore: Minor Threat, Bad Brains, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Get To The Chopper, Carpenter Ant, Suicidal Tendencies, Limpwrist, etc.[/quote]


In flames is Gothenburg, i'll give you that.

hatebreed's closest specific genre is hardcore.....anybody can slap the broad "metal" label on any metal or "core" band and call it good. You fail.

Suicidal tendencies is the furthest thing from hardcore. If anything, they are thrash. You fail again


...and I never f[B]u[/B]cking said Vehemence was black metal- I said specifically that God Was Created showed hints of symphonic black metal influence.

Three strikes.........you really fail.

[QUOTE=atreyu_breakingbenjamin]

...and I never f[B]u[/B]cking said Vehemence was black metal- I said specifically that God Was Created showed hints of symphonic black metal influence.

Three strikes.........you really fail.[/QUOTE]

Saying [i]God Was Created[/i] has any hints of any kind of black metal (symphonic or not) is incorrect, so you are still wrong.

[quote=Freezing Moon]Saying [I]God Was Created[/I] has any hints of any kind of black metal (symphonic or not) is incorrect, so you are still wrong.[/quote]


You need new ears.

i dont believe slipknot is nu metal, i think they are more alternative metal!

[QUOTE=atreyu_breakingbenjamin]You need new ears.[/QUOTE]
You need new genre definitions.

Made her for Jesus, She Never Noticed Me.......please have the stupidity to tell me those songs belong in the vien of Nile, immolation, kataklysm, etc.

[QUOTE=atreyu_breakingbenjamin]Made her for Jesus, She Never Noticed Me.......please have the stupidity to tell me those songs belong in the vien of Nile, immolation, kataklysm, etc.[/QUOTE]
And you're trying to tell me that they have influences from Emperor, etc??

[QUOTE=atreyu_breakingbenjamin]Made her for Jesus, She Never Noticed Me.......please have the stupidity to tell me those songs belong in the vien of Nile, immolation, kataklysm, etc.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you're listening to the same thing I am.

Closer to.....they sound like they have mad amounts of Dimmu, emporer, or something influence in them, would you not agree......esp. in the first half of those songs?

[quote=Hammerheart]I don't think you're listening to the same thing I am.[/quote]


NP: Vehemence- Fantasy from Pain.......definitely straight melodic death metal though.

[QUOTE=atreyu_breakingbenjamin]Closer to.....they sound like they have mad amounts of Dimmu, emporer, or something influence in them, would you not agree......esp. in the first half of those songs?[/QUOTE]
No, not at all. Farthest thing from Black Metal ever; melodic, symphonic, or otherwise.

[quote=Freezing Moon]No, not at all. Farthest thing from Black Metal ever; melodic, symphonic, or otherwise.[/quote]

Ok, well then I guess it's just me......personally, when i hear the intros to those songs, the next band I think of is Dimmu borgir....

But the original point was that I never said "Vehemence is Black metal". They aren't. We all know that they are melodic death........

[QUOTE=a[B]gay[/B]u_breakingbenjamin]In flames is Gothenburg, i'll give you that.

hatebreed's closest specific genre is hardcore.....anybody can slap the broad "metal" label on any metal or "core" band and call it good. You fail.

Suicidal tendencies is the furthest thing from hardcore. If anything, they are thrash. You fail again


...and I never f[B]u[/B]cking said Vehemence was black metal- I said specifically that God Was Created showed hints of symphonic black metal influence.

Three strikes.........you really fail.[/QUOTE]
We'd all probably hate you alot less if you didn't act like you knew what you were talking about.

[quote=Moses]We'd all probably hate you alot less if you didn't act like you knew what you were talking about.[/quote]


I would hate you all a lot less if my sarcasm was understood, and my opinions werent misinterpereted as statements of fact, and recent explanations ignored in favor of previous blunt statements.

OH MAN!!! It's that hard to type out rolleyes with colons around it to indicate sarcasm. :rolleyes:

And also it's not your opinion what genre a band fits into. I also disregarded the other posts because that one deserved flaming.

[quote=Moses]OH MAN!!! It's that hard to type out rolleyes with colons around it to indicate sarcasm. :rolleyes:

[/quote]


I prefer dry, realistic sarcasm. It gets a rise out of people that take things too literally:thumb:

If you find amusement in it then why do you hate the people it's directed towards?

Either way you have to admit that you make an a[SIZE="2"]s[/SIZE]s out of yourself more times than not.:wave:

[QUOTE=IheartSP]metal in it's purest form has nothing to do with rock.[/QUOTE]

The hell it does. Metal is a direct descendant of rock.

[QUOTE=atreyu_breakingbenjamin]I would hate you all a lot less if my sarcasm was understood, and my opinions werent misinterpereted as statements of fact, and recent explanations ignored in favor of previous blunt statements.[/QUOTE]

Opinions on genre's don't exist. Bands fit into genre's, just becuase think they fit into another doesn't make your right.

It just makes you stupid and ignorant.

It is literally impossible for everyone to have the same idea of what metal is. Some people think Black Sabbath were the heaviest band ever (I kid you not, most stoner rock bands say that), some think they were no more than a hard rock group.

People have different ideas of what is 'nu' metal, what is melodic, what is symphonic... jeez if it sounds like whatever-genre to you then it goes in that genre for you. Just don't go off at people that disagree with you!

The only genre-related thing that gets on my nerves is when people can't make their mind up about a band so they just call them "avant-garde". If something doesn't belong in a genre, it doesn't belong in a genre!

I always laugh a little when I see this thread get brought back to the first page. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

you forgot Metalcore, bands like As I Lay Dying, Killswitch, Shadows Fall, bands that take the intensity of hardcore with the speed and dexterity of metal

[QUOTE=Freezing Moon]Saying [i]God Was Created[/i] has any hints of any kind of black metal (symphonic or not) is incorrect, so you are still wrong.[/QUOTE]

/Listens to [I]Aspera[/I]... by Arcturus

/Listens to [I]God Was Created [/I] by Vehemence

[QUOTE=a_bb]You need new ears.[/QUOTE]

I digress, I think you need new ears :lol:

[QUOTE=Legions]I always laugh a little when I see this thread get brought back to the first page. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.[/QUOTE]

It's all my fault :p

[QUOTE=Bartender]The hell it does. Metal is a direct descendant of rock.[/QUOTE]
Quoted for truth. Examples, Black Sabbath, and in a lesser extent, Led Zeppelin (who I don't think sound anything close to metal even from back in that era, but people have called them that anyways).

[QUOTE=Bartender]The hell it does. Metal is a direct descendant of rock.[/QUOTE]

That is 100% true.

But I have a good 4 or 5 Mozart songs that sound like Melodic Death Metal, sans distorted guitars, screaming vocals and drums played ridiculously fast.

I think what Julian was trying to say is that metal sounds a whole damn lot like classical music, and I'm inclined to agree. It may have sprung from the loins of Rock N' Roll, but when you look at it from a strictly musical theory perspective (scales, chord progressions, etc.), a lot of it has a tendency to follow suit with Beethoven, Mozart, and Bach.

[QUOTE=atreyu_breakingbenjamin]In flames is Gothenburg, i'll give you that.

hatebreed's closest specific genre is hardcore.....anybody can slap the broad "metal" label on any metal or "core" band and call it good. You fail.

Suicidal tendencies is the furthest thing from hardcore. If anything, they are thrash. You fail again


...and I never f[B]u[/B]cking said Vehemence was black metal- I said specifically that God Was Created showed hints of symphonic black metal influence.

Three strikes.........you really fail.[/QUOTE]

You're kidding right? Hatebreed = hardcore and Suicidal Tendencies = thrash?

ST is metalcore, well specifically crossover, but they had a lot of straight up hardcore songs on their older stuff. The thrash elements came to their music later, for instance, Suicidal Tendencies is a straight up hardcore album.

[QUOTE=sean2332]you forgot Metalcore, bands like As I Lay Dying, Killswitch, Shadows Fall, bands that take the intensity of hardcore with the speed and dexterity of metal[/QUOTE]

Those bands are all post-hardcore with tinges of Gothenburg and thrash thrown in.


[I]TINGES[/I]

[QUOTE=sean2332]you forgot Metalcore, bands like As I Lay Dying, Killswitch, Shadows Fall, bands that take the intensity of hardcore with the speed and dexterity of metal[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Traditional heavy Metal
This is kind of a "catch all". There are plenty of sub-genres, but there are lots of bands that don't fit any sub-genre and can't really be called anything except "heavy metal". This can be basically anything from the old school British heavy metal invation to the newer stuff coming out today (not to be confused with nu-metal). This is what most people think of when they hear "Power metal" or such terms. Lots of different styles can be considered traditional heavy metal. Some bands: Iron Maiden, Judas Preist, Iced Earth, Godsmack, Manowar, Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall etc etc etc etc.[/QUOTE]

yup. :)

[QUOTE=Bartender]The hell it does. Metal is a direct descendant of rock.[/QUOTE]
definately true

[QUOTE=Werny]It is literally impossible for everyone to have the same idea of what metal is. Some people think Black Sabbath were the heaviest band ever (I kid you not, most stoner rock bands say that), QUOTE]

Well "heavy" is a very nebulous term. I'd say that in the sense of a feeling of evil and impending dread then Black Sabbath "Black Sabbath" is the heaviest things ever to be recorded. I don't think anyone has ever matched that.