[QUOTE=S P A C E M A N]actually, it is something to worry about. singing when you're sick may just make it worse and cause more problems in the long run.[/QUOTE]

You completely missed it.

Tsuruka said he has been coughing up more mucus lately, and I'm saying that this doesn't have anything to do with his singing.

He (but the looks of it) just has a cold, and what happens when you're feeling a little sh[I]i[/I]tty?

/tries to remember year 9 anatomy

Your body pumps out mucus to counter any infection entering your throat or nose. Therefore, this extra mucus is coming from being sick...not from his singing practice. I'm not telling him to do vocals when he's sick, No no no. Just clearing things up. :D

[QUOTE]Its ok..just try to put general stuff like this in the official voice thread up top and its easier to find and reply to.

Well on this sample its obvious that youre holding back. Your throat is closed up and you can hear your air supply being stumped. Its like you were trying not to be heard by people in the next room. Maybe this was the case....???? if it is then we can't get an accurate idea of what youre really capable off. BUT...you at least seem to be able to acces the area where you need to rasp and you can ben it around with your notes. Now all you have to do is realize that you need to SING under it. You werent singing! Sing it like you were in an opera. Or practice it that way, some, at least until you can realize the difference. Just try to sing single notes to help you get a feel for holding a good note and breath support.[/QUOTE]
Thanks dude, ill keep posting in here for sure...even after i get it down.Im really posting this to say thanks, that one paragraph helped ENORMOUSLY. Thank you very much. now....

About the holding back...i wasn't, no. I was home alone haha. but um...i tried to get my voice to....ring out , i guess. it was pretty hard. I tried the hardest in the end...the very last second. But i knew something was wrong...I wasnt actually singing the note. The last part was pretty hard for me, and pretty pathetic sounding...it seems whenever i try to let it ring out, i dont get as much 'rasp'...if im understanding what rasp is properly.

Another thing...I was using my ...gut alot, i guess. everytime i tried to 'push' for each syllable....That seems wrong to me ,though. Like I shouldnt do that. but.... i dont know for sure. When im doing that, do I want to use my stomach and push(flex abs)? or nah?

Have you read the part about singing fromg the gut in the voicehelp hotline?

Merkaba, do you have MSN or AIM? I can send you some Lanegan that way, since I can't really YSI anymore.

Nah... I have aim but I'm never on it. Maybe I'll make an account and get it. I'm slack when it comes to all that stuff pluss Im on dialup so it sucks to even download the stuff. But i do need to get Yahooo and MSN and stuff. I feel old when I dont have it.... but then again...I am old. hehe. I'll check back with you later.

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Nah... I have aim but I'm never on it. Maybe I'll make an account and get it. I'm slack when it comes to all that stuff pluss Im on dialup so it sucks to even download the stuff. But i do need to get Yahooo and MSN and stuff. I feel old when I dont have it.... but then again...I am old. hehe. I'll check back with you later.[/QUOTE]

Ok.

So Merkaba-1... I have read many of your lessons throughout the time I've been here. Now, I have practiced for about three months now, and I still suck horribly at singing. I am probably doing something wrong. I am more interested in harsh vocals though, and I can pull off a black metalish or Zao-style sound pretty well. But I want to go deeper and harsher. I dream about sounding like this guy: [url]http://www.myspace.com/styg[/url]

What could I do to train my voice better than just simple scales? I seriously can't hold a note if my life depended on it, and I have really practiced to the point that my throat feels like it's buzzing. Perhaps there is some special technique or excercise to get this exact style of vocals.

Thanks and sorry if this is a dumb question, which I'm sure it is.

I think I figured out whats wrong with me. I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. is there any way i can help myself.

[QUOTE=siva_chair]Merkaba, do you have MSN or AIM? I can send you some Lanegan that way, since I can't really YSI anymore.[/QUOTE]

Lanegan? As in, Mark Lanegan? :cool:

I love that guys voice. All those cigarettes...oh man. Great vocalist.

He can't do much else though, I don't think...except stand around and look angry. :D

[QUOTE=Rushki Smushki]Lanegan? As in, Mark Lanegan? :cool:

I love that guys voice. All those cigarettes...oh man. Great vocalist.

He can't do much else though, I don't think...except stand around and look angry. :D[/QUOTE]

He plays guitar on lots of his tracks.

His lyrics and voice are very very powerful.

[QUOTE=Damien Rhodes]So Merkaba-1... I have read many of your lessons throughout the time I've been here. Now, I have practiced for about three months now, and I still suck horribly at singing. I am probably doing something wrong. I am more interested in harsh vocals though, and I can pull off a black metalish or Zao-style sound pretty well. But I want to go deeper and harsher. I dream about sounding like this guy: [url]http://www.myspace.com/styg[/url]

What could I do to train my voice better than just simple scales? I seriously can't hold a note if my life depended on it, and I have really practiced to the point that my throat feels like it's buzzing. Perhaps there is some special technique or excercise to get this exact style of vocals.

Thanks and sorry if this is a dumb question, which I'm sure it is.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Al Strzelecki]I think I figured out whats wrong with me. I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. is there any way i can help myself.[/QUOTE]

Lets not forget that we are on the net. If practicing is getting uncomfortable or if consistent practice doesnt seem to get you anywhere it might be time to seek some one on one. All I can do is keep trying to repeat what I've said in various ways to make it easier to understand. If none of what I've posted around here works for you then you might need something a little more personal.

Alright Merkaba - I bet you've answered this a thousand times but I'm having trouble finding it. How do I warm my voice up to scream? I'm in a grind band so I do a bunch of it. I'm a back up vocalist, like the rest of my band. Sometimes though, my throat hurts afterwards for a while. I never warm up and would rather do that than change my style because I like the way it sounds. Of course, if warming up doesn't help, I'll have to stop, but I'd rather try this first.

[QUOTE=Dancin' Man]Alright Merkaba - I bet you've answered this a thousand times but I'm having trouble finding it. How do I warm my voice up to scream? I'm in a grind band so I do a bunch of it. I'm a back up vocalist, like the rest of my band. Sometimes though, my throat hurts afterwards for a while. I never warm up and would rather do that than change my style because I like the way it sounds. Of course, if warming up doesn't help, I'll have to stop, but I'd rather try this first.[/QUOTE]

Hotline [url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Lets not forget that we are on the net. If practicing is getting uncomfortable or if consistent practice doesnt seem to get you anywhere it might be time to seek some one on one. All I can do is keep trying to repeat what I've said in various ways to make it easier to understand. If none of what I've posted around here works for you then you might need something a little more personal.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that I only know one voice instructor in my area. I live in a small town. :-(

This one teacher is very hard headed and rligious, and only teaches gospel. If you even suggest other forms of music to her, she starts subtly degrading your music tastes. My little cousin takes voice lessons from her. :-/

I think I will look around for more of your posts. So far, I haven't seen much info about how to get that deep voiced growl going, but I will do some more searching. If you remember any posts you made about this particular style, please post 'em.

ok i have a problem....
i want to be able to sing (decently) ...but the thing is my voice doesnt sound musical...even though i can diferrentiate between different notes..and melodies...when i record myself...i m not happy with the sound.....its not at all musical and sounds really...dry...(tryed drinking water) ...

i cant go high since i used to play alot of Counterstrike and use to yell alot...so my high vocie doesnt even come out....just air comes out..i m trying to fix that by huming and holding notes....though the mid and bass is fine....

(2) if i'm playing a D chord on the guitar ....should i be singing a D note too or should i be singing A note ..like in a harmony?

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You just need to practice and do glisses....holding a vowel from your low or mid up to your highest with one continuous sweep. It will help you keep the cords in vibration. If you cant hold them together as you thin them out(up in pitch) then they wont vibrate. And be sure youre not overpushing, especially if youre talking about falsetto high notes.

Many people dont like their voices. Saying that is doesnt sound musical doesnt really give us any information. Your voice might be nice as far as other people are concerned. Maybe post a sample if you can. Be sure youre not tensing up or squeezing the layrnx(voicebox, adams apple). Have you been in the hotline thread?

yea i ve read ure ...hotline thread..screaming,warmups, went to ure soundclick thread to....btw your doing everyone a big favor...by taking out your own time and helping em....
THANKS......
sampleeeeeeee ....hmm lemme see

can i mail u the mp3?
email?

Anyone think it would be a good idea to make a ...."Vocal Testimony" thread, or something like that? Where vocalists tell us how they got where they are today....and where they plan on going/doing. Or should I just do that in here. Or should....i just not do that at all. Its like late...im weird now. I really want help tho.

1.That 'rasp' wasn't really....rasp, I don't think.
1.Anyway, I tried singing the notes, but i have touble with that. How do i sing them? they arent sung, and its ...really kind of monotone (that's what im hearing anyway).

It's I dunno, 94 Hours by As I Lay Dying. Look for it on [url]www.Launch.com[/url] if you dont know how to find it. I can sure yell loud, and...I'm not the greatest singer, but I could do basic stuff. It just doesn't sound like I could 'sing'(as opposed to screaming) any of this.

I'm gonna go read over the hotline again...

[QUOTE=Shreddererer]Anyone think it would be a good idea to make a ...."Vocal Testimony" thread, or something like that? Where vocalists tell us how they got where they are today....and where they plan on going/doing. Or should I just do that in here. Or should....i just not do that at all. Its like late...im weird now. I really want help tho.

1.That 'rasp' wasn't really....rasp, I don't think.
1.Anyway, I tried singing the notes, but i have touble with that. How do i sing them? they arent sung, and its ...really kind of monotone (that's what im hearing anyway).

It's I dunno, 94 Hours by As I Lay Dying. Look for it on [url]www.Launch.com[/url] if you dont know how to find it. I can sure yell loud, and...I'm not the greatest singer, but I could do basic stuff. It just doesn't sound like I could 'sing'(as opposed to screaming) any of this.

I'm gonna go read over the hotline again...[/QUOTE]
It has good intentions, but it would just get spammed up by people who aren't posting their stories and goals. :-(

Anyone know some other sites I could check for vocal instruction? Perhaps another forum? I can't find any help around here about the specific style I want, which is a deep-voiced growl similar to [url=http://www.hxcmp3.com/bands/13129/index.php]this[/url].

Its all the same. What would you expect anyone to say as far as advice goes, if you really stop and think about it? There are no magic tricks. You have to practice. If you want a deep growl you have to be able to sing and hold the note first. All rasp takes place in the back of the throat where we always stress. You have to be able to seperate the larynx muscles from the vocal cord muscles so that you can hold the pitch(note) and add/manipulate the rest of the throat to get a rasp affect, if you cant just do it naturally. Deep, low, mid or high notes are made by vibrating the cords at different thicknesses and speeds. Thats what makes sound. The raspy/growl affect comes from the glottal region of the throat, or the part you use to get a dog bark or the ANNNK wrong answer sound. And you can try to "Gargle" the note to get in touch with this area of the throat.

The problem is, I can't get my voice to go very low. What can I do to work on that? I mainly checked around these boards about screaming, not so much about normal vocals.

Trust your instincts: If you cant sing it you cant scream it. Thats only logical. You do the same thing to scream and sing....except to scream you do it harder with more pressure from the half blocked off throat which kinda acts like a thumb on the water hose, it creates a jet of higher pressure....this can be good and/or bad.

getting your voice lower is harder than getting it higher. To lower pitch your cords have to thicken and still keep shape to vibrate. All you can do that I know of is to just sing low stuff and keep trying to sing lower. I would start off slower lighter to make sure you have proper technique. Plus you have to work it enough to make your body want to change and not think its a fluke of living that it doesnt need to cater too. So that means everyday you should be doing some work.

Sounds good. Thanks. :-)

[QUOTE]It has good intentions, but it would just get spammed up by people who aren't posting their stories and goals. :-([/QUOTE]
true...well if anyone has anything like this to post in here, feel free. That one guy that posted his voice at the end of page 4 in here sounded really great, imo....

Okay well I read over some stuff, and listened to all 5 samples of yours (merkeba) and recorded me again. Merkeba, you do only have 5 voice samples correct?

Well anyway heres me making a fool out of myself again.


[url]http://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34VHB0327HWBA22LLNBRK5G43I[/url]


I hear the same thing...it sounds like im making the same mistake. I dunno. I tried to let my voice ring out though, rather than just sorta making grunts, and my throat is kinda sore. I felt the rasp, it felt like it came from the very top of my throat, like kinda behind my head haha. That's where its sore though...

Anyone have any comments?

I'm not an expert or anything. Hell, I don't actually have any clue what I'm talking about when it comes to vocals, but your voice seems to be lacking power. Put more of a shout and "oompf!" into it, if you know what I mean.

I checked the guys back on page four and he can basically do the same style I want to, but his settings seem a bit weird. There is a strange crackling sound in his mic at points.

[QUOTE=Shreddererer]true...well if anyone has anything like this to post in here, feel free. That one guy that posted his voice at the end of page 4 in here sounded really great, imo....

Okay well I read over some stuff, and listened to all 5 samples of yours (merkeba) and recorded me again. Merkeba, you do only have 5 voice samples correct?

Well anyway heres me making a fool out of myself again.


[url]http://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34VHB0327HWBA22LLNBRK5G43I[/url]


I hear the same thing...it sounds like im making the same mistake. I dunno. I tried to let my voice ring out though, rather than just sorta making grunts, and my throat is kinda sore. I felt the rasp, it felt like it came from the very top of my throat, like kinda behind my head haha. That's where its sore though...

Anyone have any comments?[/QUOTE]


You dont sound like youre having a good time. Doesnt sound like youre relaxed. Doesnt sound like something you would want to do everynight on tour.

However, It [B]Does[/B] sound like you have an idea of where to get the rasp. I dont know how hard youre pushing because it seems like youre coming from a really closed off throat like youre trying to grunt the note. Now I remember in the lessons saying that this is the same area to get the rasp but only as an idea of feeling where and the muscles to use.

Sounds like you need to take a step back and do what I usually consider the biggest help lately. Sing. You sound like youre trying to rasp up the note so much youre not paying attention to how youre forming the note. And youre grunting the note before you even complete it. Do you feel like youre singing? I'm sure you dont. You should be coming from a place of normal singing like you were doing opera. Practice singing the part youre trying to scream, in a technical classroom way. I would like to hear a post of that. And hold on to notes where there is space to, so we can know if youre supporting your air properly.

Sing.
You have to walk before you can run.
Sing, relaxed, with a loose jaw and open throat like youre trying out for an opera.

lol i dont sing, but okay ill try. I mean like i dont sing at all, I dont know anything, and i havnt had lessons. should i atleast sing for a year or two, and have lots of vocal training and experience before i attempt this? Or attempt it along the way, and expect this much(real screaming) out of myself [I]after [/I] several years of singing etc.? I guess the answer would be yes...

btw i didnt see screaming as running, and singing as walking....but if it really is like that i guess i should set this screaming stuff down for a while.
I posted something earlier...
[QUOTE]
1.That 'rasp' wasn't really....rasp, I don't think.
1.Anyway, I tried singing the notes, but i have touble with that. How do i sing them? they arent sung, and its ...really kind of monotone (that's what im hearing anyway).
[/QUOTE]

This time it was a different song by the same band, but its the same thing; the same tone(s). Mostly monotone.more on this 2 paragraphs down...


[QUOTE=Damien Rhodes]
I'm not an expert or anything. Hell, I don't actually have any clue what I'm talking about when it comes to vocals, but your voice seems to be lacking power. Put more of a shout and "oompf!" into it, if you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]
hmm..yes, I know exactly what you mean, but I dunno if 'd want to do that...

It seemed like I was already overdoing it. Just....not "singing" it. I understand that this is (most likely) just a suggestion, but I don't think im gonna sing harder too much until I figure out how hard im really pushing. Merkeba had a point when he said he couldnt tell how hard I was pushing...










ok so umm...I guess I can hear the pitches this guy is doing....Ill try to sing it, but it wont really be like...normal singing i guess, it will be very very simple....it sounds like thats the way it should be sung(as opposed to screamed) anyway...do you think this is so?


[url]http://music.yahoo.com/ar-305518-videos--As-I-Lay-Dying[/url]

this is it...^^ Song-(94 Hours)


and also, another question....I dont kow if its been answered before or if its in a thread somewhere... How loud should this scream be, without a mic? I dunno if you can give me a general idea....I guess its just as loud as singing it, right? part of the problem( in my eyes) when i scream is i dont know how hard to push. I could push harder, but I dont know if its too hard.


Well thank you Merkeba, and Damien. Im being helped immensely again.... I feel like I need to give out guitar tips now or something.



I might keep going with this(screaming), but most likely I'll do what I typed in the top of this post....and try it again when I have more vocal experience overall.

[QUOTE=Shreddererer]lol i dont sing, but okay ill try. I mean like i dont sing at all, I dont know anything, and i havnt had lessons. should i atleast sing for a year or two, and have lots of vocal training and experience before i attempt this? Or attempt it along the way, and expect this much(real screaming) out of myself [I]after [/I] several years of singing etc.? I guess the answer would be yes...

btw i didnt see screaming as running, and singing as walking....but if it really is like that i guess i should set this screaming stuff down for a while.
I posted something earlier...


This time it was a different song by the same band, but its the same thing; the same tone(s). Mostly monotone.more on this 2 paragraphs down...



hmm..yes, I know exactly what you mean, but I dunno if 'd want to do that...

It seemed like I was already overdoing it. Just....not "singing" it. I understand that this is (most likely) just a suggestion, but I don't think im gonna sing harder too much until I figure out how hard im really pushing. Merkeba had a point when he said he couldnt tell how hard I was pushing...










ok so umm...I guess I can hear the pitches this guy is doing....Ill try to sing it, but it wont really be like...normal singing i guess, it will be very very simple....it sounds like thats the way it should be sung(as opposed to screamed) anyway...do you think this is so?


[url]http://music.yahoo.com/ar-305518-videos--As-I-Lay-Dying[/url]

this is it...^^ Song-(94 Hours)


and also, another question....I dont kow if its been answered before or if its in a thread somewhere... How loud should this scream be, without a mic? I dunno if you can give me a general idea....I guess its just as loud as singing it, right? part of the problem( in my eyes) when i scream is i dont know how hard to push. I could push harder, but I dont know if its too hard.


Well thank you Merkeba, and Damien. Im being helped immensely again.... I feel like I need to give out guitar tips now or something.



I might keep going with this(screaming), but most likely I'll do what I typed in the top of this post....and try it again when I have more vocal experience overall.[/QUOTE]
Notice I edited my last reply. I meant to say that you DO seem to have good idea of where to get the rasp. Thats half the battle.

Well really, do you think you were really "screaming"?? You know you werent. So that's how loud it should be. Some people can just get louder, some cant, but if its generated in a good way it wont matter, the tone will be there and the mic does the rest.

Yes when it comes to proper technique it is like walking and running. You answered why you're having some trouble: You said you dont sing. Because when you can relax the throat enough to let the cords move with equal breath pressure and not tense, then you will be able to sing louder and actually work yourself out for more strength instead of potentiall partially damaging yourself. If you can sing properly its easier to scream because all you do is push a bit harder and close the back of the throat a little. I havent seen too many screamers that couldnt carry at least a decent tune. But its not all that hard if you work and practice. I wouldnt just give up on screams by any thought. But you should practice conventional singing. You really need to be able to flip into head voice. Once you can work your head voice it automatically helps you relase some tension in the voice box. I just did a recent post on Finding The Head Voice in the [URL="http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911"]Voicehelp Hotline[/URL].