hey aes, rather than spending £60 on some small speakers when they'rre only a temporary solution that'll be used ofr monitoring

My dad has some hifi speakers claiming to be 80w each (yeah right) but still likely to be able to handle 60w between them. They're 8 ohm, the lil' pa we have, as you know, has 2 4ohm speaker outputs. buuut...

they are connectied with wire terminals, not jacks. So, how could i wire them together to get my 4 ohms? wiring something like that into parallel is easier said than done. I have a soldering iron and stuff, and could get some of those connector things if that would help.

Also, they are either 6" or 8" speakers with a 1" spekaer- is this likely to cause any problems? Will the spekaer be so small it will distort, or have trouble reaaching the bass notes? It says it has a minimum frequency response of like 70-80hz i think. I know A is 440, but don't know how the system works form there.

thanks,

moaner

Minimum frequency response refferes to the lowest bass note that those speakers are able to handle.
The human ear cannot hear anything under 20Hz. Everything under that, you stop hearing and start 'feeling'.
Often PA speakers only handle down to 80Hz or so. Leaving everything else to be handled by seperate amplifiers and low range drivers called sub-woofers. If at all.

Some sound techs just flat out ignore all frequencies below 40Hz, and dont let them be amplified. Claiming that everything under this is just a waste of headroom, and is more of a cause of unplesant 'rumble' than it is actual sound.
Meaning, why would they waste amplifier power tyring to reproduce frequencies that dont really need to be there in the first place?

Those stereo speakers of your old mans will have an internal passive crossover.
Which is a small piece of circuitry which seperates your audio signal into differnt ranges of frequencies. The low frequencies will be sent to the woofer. the Mids to the mid range, and the highs to the tweeter.
This passive crossover will prevent the low frequencies from trying to pass through the tweeter, which will in turn prevent damage due to cone distortion.
(bare in mind there is a differnce between a passive crossover and an active crossover)

I would only suggests you use your old man's speakers if you are confident that they wont be damaged. Given their wattage rating, it seems obvious that they will be fine. But I still dont want to encourage you to go ahead and use them, just incase you ruin them. It shouldn't ruin them. But yeah. I hope you know what I mean. As long as it is okay with your dad. Then yeah.

You can wire them up just by cuting the ends off a speaker cable and stripping the wires so that they can fit into the wire terminals.
Taking note of polarity. Positive to red, Negative to black.

You should know the differnece between parrallel and series connections by now.
If not read these pages:

[url]http://www.termpro.com/articles/spkrz.html[/url]

[url]http://www.avatarspeakers.com/wiring%20diagrams.htm[/url]

yeah, i got that, my dad said you can just put 2 wires in 1 termiinal to give parallel

the speakers are already dead old, and he's planning on replacing them, so thats why i was asking

thanks

Aes, if my band bought a decent powered mixer but it was only 200w, could we, in the future, add a power amp between the powerd mixer and the speakers, without worry? I guess the real question is, can you plug a very high power signal into the input of a power amp?

No. You cannot plug the output of a power amp into the input of another amp.
(unless it is attenuated - with a dummy load or something)

What you could do. When you upgrade. Is use the main speakers in that PA for monitors. and run the auxillery output of that PA into another poweramp to use as FOH speakers

ok...

do powered mixers have stereo line level outputs that bypass the amplification section?

i was considering something today... is it possible t use guitar amps as monitors... or jsut guitar cabs... or something

[QUOTE=moaner]do powered mixers have stereo line level outputs that bypass the amplification section?[/QUOTE]The vast majority of them do. They are usually called Auxillery outputs. Not all of them are stereo, but they'll have them none the less.
[QUOTE=KissMeIamSh*tFaced]
i was considering something today... is it possible t use guitar amps as monitors... or jsut guitar cabs... or something[/QUOTE]Um. I guess you could. I dont really see why tho. I think you would get better results using a proper monitoring system.

if I end the auxillary outputs to the poweramp, I could then use the normal speaker outputs as monitor outputs...


aes, good sir, you are a genius.

[QUOTE=Aes820]. I guess you could. I dont really see why tho. I think you would get better results using a proper monitoring system.[/QUOTE]

We lack monitors at the moment

Allright, right here are some n00b questions, but Aes820 I'm sure you can answer them very well. Here's the situation:

My band just spent some money on an analog mixer. It's an Alesis MultiMix 8FX Compact 6-Channel Mixer The Specs Are: [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/630157/[/url]

100 28-bit digital effects
6 channels
4 mic/line inputs
4 mic preamps with switchable 75Hz high-pass filters
2 stereo/line inputs
3-band EQ per channel

We bought two Kustom KSC15 2-Way 15" PA Speaker Cabinets with 55Hz-20kHz frequency response. 100Wrms/200W peak handling. 8 ohms. 93dB SPL.
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/600813/[/url]

What my band intends on doing (or intended, you'll find out soon enough) is to run two mics for vocals through it. The band consists of a 30 watt bass amp, a 65 watt guitar amp and drums.

So what we did, was we plugged in the mixer to the speakers, plugged a mic into the mixer and sung, or screamed, rather, our hearts out. And... with everything at its max levels, it... can't even compete with my sisters magic mic kareoke on the T.V. (it was really soft)

So here's the n00b questions
1) What is an analog mixer? And what's the difference between an analog, digital and powered mixer?
2) Why are the speakers so soft?
3) Are we missing an item to make the speakers functional?
4) What do we need to make the speakers functional?
5) What is a monitor?
6) What is a poweramp?
7) What does p.a. stand for?

Thank you, in advance.

Brian

1. i couldn't really give you sufficient detail, but analogue mixers work by good ol' means of pots and sliders, which are veriable resistors, whereas although digital may use this as an interface, but the entire thing is then sent to a computer chip inside the mixer to decide the sound. Powered mixers are mixers with inbuilt power amps.

You guys, to answer 2,3,4,6 have nothing powereiring your PA. You need a power amp. This is a peice of equiptment that makes the volume of what comes out of the mixer. Think of it this way- if the mixer "mixes" together all the different signals, and sends them out, this is still only a very low signal- not loud enough to power some speakers. A power amp takes this sound and makes it louder, without affecting the sound. You really need a power amp.

Monitors are onstage peices of equiptment that let the band hear what is coming out of the main PA speakers, so that the band can hear eachother.

PA stands for Public address, because thats what some PAs are used for- for example, at public speeches. Its just that bands and musicians sue them too.

Hope this helps until aes can give you the full downlow,

Moaner

Moaner has given good info.

1. Anologue mixers mix your signal using tradional anologue based circuitry. Digital mixers convert your signal into digital information (like a computer), mixes it, and then reverts this mixed digital info back into an audio signal.
Powered mixers are like a mixer and a poweramp combined into the one unit.

2 and 3 and 6. You'll need a poweramp. A poweramp is what 'adds the watts' and gets it up to a volume loud enough to power the speakers. Powered mixers have got built in poweramps, and powered speakers have got built in poweramps. Seeing as you've got just a regular mixer and regular speakers. You'll need a poweramp to go in between the two.

4. Your speakers are 100w at 8 ohms each. For them I would reccomend a 2x100 watt at 8 ohm poweramp. Or a 2x200watt at 4 ohm poweramp. Ebay is a good place to look for cheap poweramps.

5. Moaner is correct. A monitor is for the benefit of the band so they can hear them selves on stage. Monitors arn't always necessary and are usually only seen on Larger and more professional PA setups. Quite often, you can get away with playign gigs without the need of monitors.

7. Moaner is correct.

Okay, were just starting out, and i don't really know jack about PA's mics or whatever. So can you kind of explain PA's and why you have to hook amps up to them, and crap in a nutshell? thanks..

also, we need mics, but only 2. I was thinking a Shure becuase i hear they the best. I'm hoping we don't have to spend more than 300-400 on a pa, and speakers and stuff. can you guys give me some hints, or something? thanks.

PAs are used to get your sound out to your audience.
Depending on the size of the venue and how many people are there, your own amps and the sound of the drums may not be enough to fully get out to your audience. This is when you'll need a PA. To run your instruments through and get it loud enough to be heard.
Now, like I said, you dont always need a PA for the instruments. It depends on size the venue. Even some larger venues have their own in-house PAs.

But usually you would at least want to run your vocals through a PA.
And for that, you can get yourself a little 4 input powered mixer for perhaps a couple of hundred bucks. That'll do the job for some small to medium sized gigs.

Read back through this thread. Or look on Musicians friend under 'packaged PA setups' for some options on what other people use.

Thanks for the help. Quick question though: what would be a cheap affordable power amp. Because I'm searching ebay and am finding lots of really cheap power amps, is it too good to be true?

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64451&item=3751030869&rd=1[/url]

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=68247&item=3751135379&rd=1[/url]

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=294&item=5723843772&rd=1[/url]

P.S. my bassist thinks your god aes, sorry moaner, he's not familiar with you, yet :p

P.S.S. there's a lot of cheap DJ power amps, does that make a difference? Can we use a dj amp instead?

You'll basically be looking at a poweramp suitable for your speakers.

Either a 2x100 watt @ 8 ohms.. or a 2x200 watt @ 4 ohms.

None of those three you linked to would be really suitable. The first would be okay but probably underpowered for your needs. The second is too much power. And the third isn't exactally a poweramp.

A DJ poweramp should work. As long as it's rated power output matches those figures I mentioned above.

Something like this would be good:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64452&item=3751153903&rd=1[/url]
As would this:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23787&item=3752426995&rd=1[/url]

i saw a kustom pa package for like $160. It has a 4 input mixer with 2 speakers. 80W i think it said the mixer was. Good? for playing in garages, and small venues. (forl ike no more than 50 people?)

and for mics...i saw a nady package with a mic, cable, and stand for like $20. any good? what are good mics to look at without spending a butt-load of cash on? thanks again, aes. Your good.

That kustom PA package would be okay for practising and playing gigs in garages and perhaps even house parties.
It may be struggeling to keep up at anything larger, tho.

Behringer is a good brand to look at for decent mics at a decent price.. I think they've got a package of 3 or 4 mics for 80 bucks or so. from memory.
Check out [url]www.behringer.com[/url]

could we add more speakers to it, or would the PA cab need to be more powerful? we only need 2 mics. and were going to run 2 guitars through it as well, as they have smaller amps.

whats the least I should spend to get good sound outside?

depends on how big the gig will be and how many channels you need, as well as your idea of "good"...

[QUOTE=TheBouncingSoul]could we add more speakers to it, or would the PA cab need to be more powerful? we only need 2 mics. and were going to run 2 guitars through it as well, as they have smaller amps.[/QUOTE]
You 'technically' can add on more speakers if you want. But I wouldnt really advise it. You'll have to worry about ohm loadings. And really, 80 watts isn't all that much headroom in the first place.
It may be better in the long run to invest in a PA with more wattage.
[QUOTE=The Spliggity Splot]whats the least I should spend to get good sound outside?[/QUOTE] Outdoors is tricky. Because you usually have to drasitically increase your expectations on wattage. Usually 10 fold, for a benchmark.
If 300 watts would be good for a small indoors gig. Then you'll be looking at 3000 for an outdoors gig.
And for improved efficiency, you'll then have to worry about bi/triamping. Then that involves differnt speaker cabinets, poweramps, crossovers.
It can really add up.

You can do 'backyard' sized gigs with an indoors PA, by all means.
And something like a 600 watter might be good for anything up to 500 people.
But if you are playing a larger gig. With perhaps an audience of 500 people or more. Then you'll want a setup that is a little more professional. And for that. It can get very expensive.

[QUOTE=Aes820]PAs are used to get your sound out to your audience.
Depending on the size of the venue and how many people are there, your own amps and the sound of the drums may not be enough to fully get out to your audience. This is when you'll need a PA. To run your instruments through and get it loud enough to be heard.
Now, like I said, you dont always need a PA for the instruments. It depends on size the venue. Even some larger venues have their own in-house PAs.

But usually you would at least want to run your vocals through a PA.
And for that, you can get yourself a little 4 input powered mixer for perhaps a couple of hundred bucks. That'll do the job for some small to medium sized gigs.

Read back through this thread. Or look on Musicians friend under 'packaged PA setups' for some options on what other people use.[/QUOTE]

wow dude thnx :thumb: , just wut i was gonna ask for. and could u tell me wut a power amp is for

Have a read back through this thread. I've already covered what a poweramp is in an earlier post.

But basically it is what 'adds the watts' to your sound. It amplifies your signal up loud enough so it can be reproduced at high volumes through your speakers.

Alot of equipment has got built in poweramps.
For example, a powered mixer is like a mixer and a poweramp all built in to the one unit.
This makes it much easier to buy and setup, no need to worry about poweramps because it is all built in.

re:
 

I've got a question. Our band is looking to buy a pa system, but we dont have much money (i'm the only one with a job) Would this Audio Choice C100 Portable PA System 100W package that you talk about for 179 get over our drummer. He plays pretty loud. I'm just not aware of how much 100w means on a pa.

Does the 100 watts mean it can only handle 100w or thats how loud it puts out or what? We arent using it for gigs or anything big at all yet. just practicing and fun. Would we need anything else for starting out than what it comes with?
also, if we mic'd a 120w amp, would a 100w pa system handle that. I just dont really understand that yet.
thanks
Hit By A Miss

The 100 watt PA means that the amps rated output is 100 watts. This means little to the overall loudness, however it is used as a benchmark.

100 watts will probably be okay for practising. But it depends on how loud the rest of your band is, including your drummer.
With guitar and bass amps, you can always turn them down to suit. But you cant turn down drums. And if your drummer is naturally a heavy hitter. Then you may need something that is more cabable to keep up.
But, like i said, it depends.

For one band, a 100 watter might be fine for practising and even some house party gigs. But for another band, it may not be enough at all.

But for a band that is just starting out. And not going to get into gigging for a while. I think that 100 watter should be fine.

is it possible to plug a guitar amp head directly into the PA... without any cab

No. Do not run anything other than a speaker load off the speaker output of an amp. Running the outputs of the amp into the input of a PA can quite easilly ruin both amps.
I thought that would be obvious.

You can use a dummy load (such as a power attenuator set to full load) And then run the head into the PA as if you are slaving it.
Although it may just be cheaper to buy a suitable speaker cabinet.

it might be obvious... but i am not too bright...