Lateralus would be right, IF 2cool_4school's grammer wasn't worse than Deftoned's, AND if he knew the difference between a genre and an opinion.

[QUOTE=h00t_h00t]Lateralus would be right, IF 2cool_4school's grammer wasn't worse than Deftoned's, AND if he knew the difference between a genre and an opinion.[/QUOTE]
My grammar is fine. I know the difference between the genre and an opinion, but 2cool_4school doesn't. He seems to think that putting bands in a genre makes them 'good' or 'bad' (eg 2cool_4school: "thats why I'm against melodic metal, it's all ****, therefore Nile shouldn't be classed as death" etc). Where did all these noobs enter the argument?

[QUOTE=Lateralus23462]I find it funny that when someone (2cool_4school) makes an intelligent post, people whom he has offended (deftoned) try to defend themselves by making an obvious attempt to try to sound intelligent. These posts usually have some of the most indecipherable grammar and sentence structure I have ever read. Don't make idiotic attempts to defend your opinions when you can't match the other person's argument.[/QUOTE]
Wow, way to suck a dîck, noob. The guy doesn't really make an intelligent point, he attacks other's opinions, and acts as though he is law, and thinks he can tell people what they "can't" listen to. You are obviously blind, read the whole thread, buddy. This guy acts as though he knows my whole taste, but he doesn't. He accuses me of being a "dOOd" and the like, and he knows nothing. He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says..

fact and opinion
 

[QUOTE=deftoned]Wow, way to suck a dîck, noob. The guy doesn't really make an intelligent point, he attacks other's opinions, and acts as though he is law, and thinks he can tell people what they "can't" listen to. You are obviously blind, read the whole thread, buddy. This guy acts as though he knows my whole taste, but he doesn't. He accuses me of being a "dOOd" and the like, and he knows nothing. He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says..[/QUOTE]

>yet another amazing post deftoned.

"He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says"

>Yes and no. It’s my opinion (were you taught the difference between fact and opinion in school?) that fans of metal are too generous with their support of very untalented bands. I sited a few bands I felt were prime examples of this (again, my opinion) because I think they add nothing to metal. If I wanted to hear music similar to Mortician or Nile (meh) I’d listen to a band that performs similar music, but better. Hopefully you are starting to catch on, otherwise you are a dumb *** (this too, is an opinion.. though it’s beginning to look factual).

fact and opinion
 

[QUOTE=deftoned]Wow, way to suck a dîck, noob. The guy doesn't really make an intelligent point, he attacks other's opinions, and acts as though he is law, and thinks he can tell people what they "can't" listen to. You are obviously blind, read the whole thread, buddy. This guy acts as though he knows my whole taste, but he doesn't. He accuses me of being a "dOOd" and the like, and he knows nothing. He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says..[/QUOTE]

>yet another amazing post deftoned.

"He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says"

>Yes and no. It’s my opinion (were you taught the difference between fact and opinion in school?) that fans of metal are too generous with their support of very untalented bands. I sited a few bands I felt were prime examples of this (again, my opinion) because I think they add nothing to metal. If I wanted to hear music similar to Mortician or Nile (meh) I’d listen to a band that performs similar music, but better. Hopefully you are starting to catch on, otherwise you are a dumb *** (this too, is an opinion.. though it’s beginning to look factual).

Anyone who can hack into what they're talking about, raise a hand.

2cool_4school: [URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion]Click here to find out what you've been missing![/URL]

Final thing I'm gonna say to you: I can listen to what I want, and you can do the same. Stop trying to shove your opinions on everyone else.

[QUOTE=Kaden]2cool_4school: [URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion]Click here to find out what you've been missing![/URL]

Final thing I'm gonna say to you: I can listen to what I want, and you can do the same. Stop trying to shove your opinions on everyone else.[/QUOTE]

>haha nice link and good luck with that (listening to what you want).

The definition to me of alternative metal is obviously that it doesn't fit into any certain metal genre. So firstly I think nu-metal is basicly bands with the heavier drop-tuned sound. Not too much more than maybe it is more commercially acceptable, because it doesn't scare the little kiddies too much. So I would put the old Deftones under alternative metal when they still kept with the normal e tuning. And yes... System of a Down and Mudvayne, nevermind how good they are, still fits the nu-metal genre. Although I also would've liked those two personal favourites to be more accepted, because many people just write them off because they are nu-metal.

Now I saw many people mentioning some metal genre's are hugely influenced by punk of the old days. Could someone please clear this for me, because I don't know why Metalcore bands make use of an influenced punk sound. I mean punk in the old days was repetitive guitaring with repetitive lyrics, but at the end of the day had a meaning behind it all. The songs made use of fast riffs which I don't seem to find with the Metalcore sound. So even if it would lead you to explain to me what punk is, please tell me where you find the relation between punk and metal.

Lastly I think Opeth is more melodic and where would you put bands like Deicide and Dimmu Borgir which I thought was black, but they don't seem to "build any atmosphere".

thx

[QUOTE=r00ster]
Now I saw many people mentioning some metal genre's are hugely influenced by punk of the old days. Could someone please clear this for me, because I don't know why Metalcore bands make use of an influenced punk sound. I mean punk in the old days was repetitive guitaring with repetitive lyrics, but at the end of the day had a meaning behind it all. The songs made use of fast riffs which I don't seem to find with the Metalcore sound. So even if it would lead you to explain to me what punk is, please tell me where you find the relation between punk and metal.
thx[/QUOTE]


Well, that's because a lot of music that gets labeled as metalcore is really just melodic death with breakdowns (a crucial element of [I]modern[/I] hardcore). But, the metalheads refuse to acknowledge it as metal, and the hardcore crowd refuses to pack it in with hardcore, so it just kinda gets slapped with the metalcore label, when it in fact has very little hardcore to it. Now, you take a band like Walls of Jericho, who could actually be considered metalcore, and you will see the elements of Black Flag in the music, as well as a Slayer influence.

[QUOTE=2cool_4school]>yet another amazing post deftoned.

"He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says"

>Yes and no. It’s my opinion (were you taught the difference between fact and opinion in school?) that fans of metal are too generous with their support of very untalented bands. I sited a few bands I felt were prime examples of this (again, my opinion) because I think they add nothing to metal. If I wanted to hear music similar to Mortician or Nile (meh) I’d listen to a band that performs similar music, but better. Hopefully you are starting to catch on, otherwise you are a dumb *** (this too, is an opinion.. though it’s beginning to look factual).[/QUOTE]
Nice double post, dumb åss. I understand exactly what you're saying, but I don't think it's true. Many people obviously believe Nile and Mortician are talented enough for them to buy their records, and I'm sure people get onto earlier bands through newer ones. Your principle of your argument is good, but the fact that you're bagging people out for liking bands and almost forcing them on other things is what is pissing me off. This is what I've tried to say the whole time.

[QUOTE=r00ster]The definition to me of alternative metal is obviously that it doesn't fit into any certain metal genre. So firstly I think nu-metal is basicly bands with the heavier drop-tuned sound. Not too much more than maybe it is more commercially acceptable, because it doesn't scare the little kiddies too much. So I would put the old Deftones under alternative metal when they still kept with the normal e tuning. And yes... System of a Down and Mudvayne, nevermind how good they are, still fits the nu-metal genre. Although I also would've liked those two personal favourites to be more accepted, because many people just write them off because they are nu-metal.

Now I saw many people mentioning some metal genre's are hugely influenced by punk of the old days. Could someone please clear this for me, because I don't know why Metalcore bands make use of an influenced punk sound. I mean punk in the old days was repetitive guitaring with repetitive lyrics, but at the end of the day had a meaning behind it all. The songs made use of fast riffs which I don't seem to find with the Metalcore sound. So even if it would lead you to explain to me what punk is, please tell me where you find the relation between punk and metal.

Lastly I think Opeth is more melodic and where would you put bands like Deicide and Dimmu Borgir which I thought was black, but they don't seem to "build any atmosphere".

thx[/QUOTE]
Sorry man, earlier Deftones is more nu-metal than newer Deftones (and this isn't a criticism, I like them alot), although not as polished, the music was more "agressive" and not as artistic as they are now (think White Pony). Deicide are blatantly satanic death, and Dimmu Borgir are 'uNtRoO black', because they have very good production on their album, yet can still make a dreary atmosphere at the same time.

I'd say Alternative Metal bands include: Fantomas, Peach, early Rollins Band (a bit of a funk and blues based - End of Silence; incredible album), Faith No More, Tomahawk, Tool etc..Bands that push the envelope, but aren't really in the vein of prog metal (Symphony X, Dream Theater etc). I would put White Pony forwards era Deftones as Alternative Metal, sorta.

[QUOTE=speedhitler]Anyone who can hack into what they're talking about, raise a hand.[/QUOTE]

Better yet, anyone who gives a flying f[B]u[/B]ck, raise your hand.

Anyway, I'm seriously starting to agree with the whole "mod delete these useless posts" thing. Maybe someone should start a cooresponding argument thread to go with this one. That way people would only post genre definitions in this thread. They could do their bickering and whining in the other. Anyone with me?

I'm not willing to argue with that guy anymore, does anyone else want any genres to be covered?

i heard a band described as "proto-metal-funk-core" once...made me laugh

what kind of metal do you think pantera are?

[QUOTE=deadpuppy]i heard a band described as "proto-metal-funk-core" once...made me laugh[/QUOTE]i heard that "no doubt" are "feminist music to the indie rock persuasion"
i laughed.

[QUOTE=Kaden]2cool_4school: [URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion]Click here to find out what you've been missing![/URL]

Final thing I'm gonna say to you: I can listen to what I want, and you can do the same. Stop trying to shove your opinions on everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Kaden has the right idea. 2cool4school should listen to him.

As deftoned said: If you like a band cool...if you don't like them, it doesn't mean they suck, so stop trying to shove your opinions down peoples throats.

I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.
Just a suggestion.

PS. I like "Crossover"

ok i get it there is no difference between music with a guitar in it its all the same thanx for clearing that up.

Very good list, hmm one thing i've noticed though is that numetal bands are almost always judged by guitarwork alone, some drummers are quite good (while not comparable to prog metal and tool or the such are still quite good) and numetals vocals often seem to be levels above many of the other metal genres. There is no way to get around growling and screaming to be just that. Thing of David Draiman of disturbed, he has an amazing voice that i can't think of anything comprable it pure tonal ability, and if SOAD is to be classified as Nu metal, regardless of whether you like them or not Serj's voice is unique and in my opinion better than most of his metal contemporaries. In death and black and other ultra aggresive variants metal the vocals tend to take a back seat to the technical abilties of the band. Opeth is a great example. while the singer when singing clean doesn't have a bad voice but he is most certainly not up to the standard of the rest of the band.

Are you kidding? Serj's voice has range, yeah, but it's hella annoying after a while. With this is mind, I still like SOAD a little bit. In Opeth, Mikael's voice is an incredible technical instrument, and if anything it takes a front seat, with his lead guitar work. Listen to something more. Oh and by the way, Draiman has got nothing on many singers, especially in 'tonal ability' (Mikael, Maynard, Patton, Greg Puciato, Bruce Dickinson, Halford for a few examples).

[QUOTE=ludz]I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.
Just a suggestion.

PS. I like "Crossover"[/QUOTE]

I don't. Crossover is the first two Corrosion of Conformity albums, SOD, Carnivore etc. Ie A mix of hardcore (old hardcore not metalcore bollocks) and thrash.

[QUOTE=Jondur]I don't. Crossover is the first two Corrosion of Conformity albums, SOD, Carnivore etc. Ie A mix of hardcore (old hardcore not metalcore bollocks) and thrash.[/QUOTE]
haha nothing like some SOD; racism with class :lol: haha metalcore bollocks; too true.

[QUOTE=ludz]I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.[/QUOTE]
Why? I like the term "mallcore", which we already have. There is NOTHING inherently "crossover" in mallcore.

[QUOTE=g_dejesus]Very good list, hmm one thing i've noticed though is that numetal bands are almost always judged by guitarwork alone, some drummers are quite good (while not comparable to prog metal and tool or the such are still quite good) and numetals vocals often seem to be levels above many of the other metal genres. There is no way to get around growling and screaming to be just that. Thing of David Draiman of disturbed, he has an amazing voice that i can't think of anything comprable it pure tonal ability, and if SOAD is to be classified as Nu metal, regardless of whether you like them or not Serj's voice is unique and in my opinion better than most of his metal contemporaries. In death and black and other ultra aggresive variants metal the vocals tend to take a back seat to the technical abilties of the band. Opeth is a great example. while the singer when singing clean doesn't have a bad voice but he is most certainly not up to the standard of the rest of the band.[/QUOTE]
Try Helloween instead of Opeth.

[QUOTE=deftoned]Are you kidding? Serj's voice has range, yeah, but it's hella annoying after a while. With this is mind, I still like SOAD a little bit. In Opeth, Mikael's voice is an incredible technical instrument, and if anything it takes a front seat, with his lead guitar work. Listen to something more. Oh and by the way, Draiman has got nothing on many singers, especially in 'tonal ability' (Mikael, Maynard, Patton, Greg Puciato, Bruce Dickinson, Halford for a few examples).[/QUOTE]

I'll give you Maynard for tone and Patton for Range, but Dickinson? His voice is irritating as hell. I like Opeth but the vocals never impressed me. I'm unfamiliar with Puciato and Halford though

^^^ He can still have a range even if you think he's irriataing. I'm not much of a Maiden fan, although I'll occasionaly be in the mood for them...anyway, Dickinson's voice is really good.

Good list! The problem for me with all these metal genre...it takes me half an hour to explain to somebody that does'nt know our band, the style of music we play, so I say metal from the 80's or "maiden kind of" to explain heavy metal.But these days when you say metal a lot of people think about something more agressive than what we do.

[QUOTE=g_dejesus]I'll give you Maynard for tone and Patton for Range, but Dickinson? His voice is irritating as hell. I like Opeth but the vocals never impressed me. I'm unfamiliar with Puciato and Halford though[/QUOTE]
Listen to Dåmnation by Opeth if you want incredible clean vocals...Puciato is the fücked up Patton-esque voice behind the Dillinger Escape Plan. Rob Halford is the vocalist for Judas Priest.

I have always considered Tool to be verging into the progressive scene due to their drawn-out, and complex songs and of course, Carey's fantastic ability on the kit.