So...I just watched a 2 hour PBS presentation on slavery. Such politically correct BS, it's heavily weighted against colonials making them seem like such bad people in general...why can't anything be presented objectively anymore? :(

[QUOTE=BoboTheRagingHobo]Hes going to make a kiddy pron site! With all the molested kids hes touched over the years. :eek:[/QUOTE]

o noes!

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]So...I just watched a 2 hour PBS presentation on slavery. Such politically correct BS, it's heavily weighted against colonials making them seem like such bad people in general...why can't anything be presented objectively anymore? :([/QUOTE]

I would talk with you about this, but since I got three hours of it during my "politics of race in music" class today, I'll spare you the dissertation. This is believe it or not the short version of what I'm learning. The basic problem is that people do not realize that racism of today is different from what it was before slavery ended, in the same way that anti-Semitism pre-Holocaust is totally, fundamentally different from anti-Semitism post-Holocaust and that the common stereotypes of slaveowners as terrible, etc. of today are flawed because they see slavery exclusively through the eyeglass of history from OUR present day, rather than examining the attitudes of the time as a product of THEIR present day. True understanding can only occur when political correctness is put aside and we understand these terrible things for what they actually were, as opposed to the admittedly over-demonized version of them we have created. It does not make what happened any less evil to admit that it really was not the Satan incarnate it's supposed to be. This is what your PBS documentary does not understand and it's what makes it just as propogandist as a documentary that tried to pass slavery off as a good thing.

This also is in line with the argument that the racial stereotypes and slurs such as the N-word and the "shucking Sambo" image of blackface minstrelsy need to be destigmatized, and that white people should no longer feel as though they need permission to laugh at them. They are, after all ridiculous, untrue, and thus absurd and funny stereotypes.

EDIT: Perhaps this was a post I put too much thought into, but hey, I was thinking about it anyway, so...sorry... :upset: Hopefully my point is nevertheless taken. :)

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]So...I just watched a 2 hour PBS presentation on slavery. Such politically correct BS, it's heavily weighted against colonials making them seem like such bad people in general...why can't anything be presented objectively anymore? :([/QUOTE]

Because the media is run by bleeding heart liberals who care nothing for their own country.

[QUOTE=cjborton]Because the media is run by bleeding heart liberals who care nothing for their own country.[/QUOTE]

Well...Fox News is run by obsessively hypocritical and stiff-necked conservative preachers that care nothing for their own country. It works both ways, just like the government itself.

I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can here. Most of the media leans strongly left, you can't deny that. Fox News is not strongly right wing, it is simply fair, but relative to everything else they seem conservative.

[QUOTE=Ripper22]Lots of words[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I see your point, and I do pretty well understand why it happens. It's just annoying because I took AP European and AP US History and both presented more balanced views on slavery in America, and didn't demonize it so much. There was so much focus on some of the punishments slaves faced and such, and so much about the hypocrisies of the Declaration of Independence...etc... But it sort of bypassed the fact that non-slaves almost all died out due to the lack of jobs you could do to support yourself and though slave life was tough, it did at least keep you alive. I don't know...I wanted to punch the producers in the faces as I watched the propaganda my teacher is forcing us to write a report on :-/

[QUOTE=cjborton]I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can here. Most of the media leans strongly left, you can't deny that. Fox News is not strongly right wing, it is simply fair, but relative to everything else they seem conservative.[/QUOTE]

Well...I'm just not in line with your views. You're in the miltary, and I'm going to the most liberal college in the USA (self-proclaimed). I guess we may have to disagree on this and leave it there. I don't deny what you're saying, but keep in mind, conversatism has traditionally been the side resistant to the kind of change seen by us today as ultimately very positive, such as the abolition of slavery and subsequent civil rights issues, women's right to vote, the end of isolationism and with it the attitude that the U.S. is independent from the rest of the world with the start of WWII, etc. The kind of liberals you're talking about are hated equally by me, mostly because they feel as though the mere fact that they are liberal and on the side of right gives them liscense to open their mouths to spout their opinions that are just as propogandist as the ones they condemn. This, as we know, is not the case: nobody knows everything, and few people are as self-righteous as your average liberal. I am not this way, and I understand what you're saying and agree with some, but not all.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Yeah, I see your point, and I do pretty well understand why it happens. It's just annoying because I took AP European and AP US History and both presented more balanced views on slavery in America, and didn't demonize it so much. There was so much focus on some of the punishments slaves faced and such, and so much about the hypocrisies of the Declaration of Independence...etc... But it sort of bypassed the fact that non-slaves almost all died out due to the lack of jobs you could do to support yourself and though slave life was tough, it did at least keep you alive. I don't know...I wanted to punch the producers in the faces as I watched the propaganda my teacher is forcing us to write a report on :-/[/QUOTE]

Include these views in your report. If he's a truly good professor, he'll think it's a great paper. If he doesn't then you have a reason to raise a good stink with her.

EDIT: revised quotes are fun!

I'm too tired to think throuroughly enough to participate in this conversation, so I'm out for the night.

Later.
:wave:

[QUOTE=TheChoSenOnes]I'm too tired to think throuroughly enough to participate in this conversation, so I'm out for the night.

Later.
:wave:[/QUOTE]

Good night. I probably killed it anyway though. :-/

[QUOTE=Ripper22]Include these views in your report. If he's a truly good professor, he'll think it's a great paper. If he doesn't then you have a reason to raise a good stink with her.

EDIT: revised quotes are fun![/QUOTE]
Yeah, she's fairly liberal, uber-feminist, all that good stuff, so I think it's safer not to, but as liberal as I am, I just hate to be presented such biased views and be forced to spit them back out, but since the paper is supposed to be solely about the movie, there would be plausible grounds to take off for mentioning that other stuff.

(BTW, repped both of you for giving responses and allowing us to have a good conversation, no spam :thumb: )

[QUOTE=Ripper22]Well...I'm just not in line with your views. You're in the miltary, and I'm going to the most liberal college in the USA (self-proclaimed). I guess we may have to disagree on this and leave it there. I don't deny what you're saying, but keep in mind, conversatism has traditionally been the side resistant to the kind of change seen by us today as ultimately very positive, such as the abolition of slavery and subsequent civil rights issues, women's right to vote, the end of isolationism and with it the attitude that the U.S. is independent from the rest of the world with the start of WWII, etc. The kind of liberals you're talking about are hated equally by me, mostly because they feel as though the mere fact that they are liberal and on the side of right gives them liscense to open their mouths to spout their opinions that are just as propogandist as the ones they condemn. This, as we know, is not the case: nobody knows everything, and few people are as self-righteous as your average liberal. I am not this way, and I understand what you're saying and agree with some, but not all.[/QUOTE]

Agreed sir.

[QUOTE=cjborton]Agreed sir.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Rep++ :thumb:

And some for zepfan too. :)

EDIT: Dam you both! Need to spread it around. Sorry, I'll get back to you.

[QUOTE=Ripper22]Thanks. Rep++ :thumb:

And some for zepfan too. :)

EDIT: Dam you both! Need to spread it around. Sorry, I'll get back to you.[/QUOTE]
Oh, sad day...I'm still trying to get the last 40 to hit 10k :-/

All cool though, it's worth it regardless just to get some good thoughtful conversations going in here :)

On a tangent, Yes' album Talk is awesome, I recommend listening to it at some point :)

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Yeah, she's fairly liberal, uber-feminist, all that good stuff, so I think it's safer not to, but as liberal as I am, I just hate to be presented such biased views and be forced to spit them back out, but since the paper is supposed to be solely about the movie, there would be plausible grounds to take off for mentioning that other stuff.
[/QUOTE]

Ick. Uber-feminists piss me off. At any rate, bias of any kind, even the ones that tip in your favor, are still flawed and you should do your best to look at it from an objective viewpoint. If it were me, that's what I'd do regardless of what the teacher would say. If she gave me a bad grade for attempting to simply follow my own thoughts rather than hers, then she's a terrible professor and doesn't deserve her job. Racism cannot be understood or cured by obsessively avoiding the facts of it like the plague and pushing it under the rug of political correctness.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Oh, sad day...I'm still trying to get the last 40 to hit 10k :-/

All cool though, it's worth it regardless just to get some good thoughtful conversations going in here :)

On a tangent, Yes' album Talk is awesome, I recommend listening to it at some point :)[/QUOTE]

Christ, you have 10k...what well do you get your rep from? I'm still at a little less than half that. You're the first rep I've recieved in about a week, with the exception of a small one that happened today.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Oh, sad day...I'm still trying to get the last 40 to hit 10k :-/

All cool though, it's worth it regardless just to get some good thoughtful conversations going in here :)

On a tangent, Yes' album Talk is awesome, I recommend listening to it at some point :)[/QUOTE]

Check it again, I just repped you.

[QUOTE=Ripper22]Christ, you have 10k...what well do you get your rep from? I'm still at a little less than half that. You're the first rep I've recieved in about a week, with the exception of a small one that happened today.[/QUOTE]
To your other post: We'll see how the class discussion tilts the scale I think...wait and see I guess.

To this: Rep parties in here (:upset: ), Mod reps, I make enough posts that there are bound to be some good ones in there :)

My rep is worth a bit though, should have helped. It's not that important, but it's cool I guess. I feel better when I get well deserved reps, but at the same time I get negged a lot for my opinion, which is lame, so there is some balance there.

EDIT: 12 short :(

Another tangent (I would in honesty like to continue this talk if anybody still feels inclined to do so), but I just noticed that I think I have the lowest postcount of anybody on the first two pages on the rep list. Kind of weird...

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]To your other post: We'll see how the class discussion tilts the scale I think...wait and see I guess.

To this: Rep parties in here (:upset: ), Mod reps, I make enough posts that there are bound to be some good ones in there :)

My rep is worth a bit though, should have helped. It's not that important, but it's cool I guess. I feel better when I get well deserved reps, but at the same time I get negged a lot for my opinion, which is lame, so there is some balance there.

EDIT: 12 short :([/QUOTE]

I tried, I guess mine still ain't worth much yet...I have 1400pts, thought I could a least get you 40.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]To your other post: We'll see how the class discussion tilts the scale I think...wait and see I guess.

To this: Rep parties in here (:upset: ), Mod reps, I make enough posts that there are bound to be some good ones in there :)

My rep is worth a bit though, should have helped. It's not that important, but it's cool I guess. I feel better when I get well deserved reps, but at the same time I get negged a lot for my opinion, which is lame, so there is some balance there.

EDIT: 12 short :([/QUOTE]

I'll tell YOU when a rep is well-deserved, god-dammit.

:p Obviously the negs don't do much. But that's ok. I like rep, personally. It's just more of an incentive to not post like a spam robot to increase my postcount.

I definitely hear you on that note, though. Being repped for my sense of humor barely makes up at all for the posts I put a lot of thought into that don't see the light of an MX day. For instance, I wrote a really good post in the recent thread on genocide in the Politics thread, and while sivachair and the Tway debated their butts off no one even replied to it, much less repped it. I was disappointed...

[QUOTE=Ripper22]Another tangent (I would in honesty like to continue this talk if anybody still feels inclined to do so), but I just noticed that I think I have the lowest postcount of anybody on the first two pages on the rep list. Kind of weird...[/QUOTE]
Discuss my tangent first! :p

Yeah, well, just means you're a good poster when you do post, bravo :)

1400/50=rep you give=28

[QUOTE=Ripper22]I'll tell YOU when a rep is well-deserved, god-dammit.

:p Obviously the negs don't do much. But that's ok. I like rep, personally. It's just more of an incentive to not post like a spam robot to increase my postcount.[/QUOTE]
Oh no, I spam a ridiculous amount...it's crazy :)

Now I'm listening to the ladder, another fine Yes album (Yes fanboy :upset: )

[QUOTE=Ripper22]

I definitely hear you on that note, though. Being repped for my sense of humor barely makes up at all for the posts I put a lot of thought into that don't see the light of an MX day. For instance, I wrote a really good post in the recent thread on genocide in the Politics thread, and while sivachair and the Tway debated their butts off no one even replied to it, much less repped it. I was disappointed...[/QUOTE]

Quoted so you can see...

Anyway, I only have the Yes album and Fragile. They keep me happy, though.

Well Ripper, to continue the discussion...I liked what you said in the last post because I agree that the government NEEDS a balance of both sides. Despite how I may have come off earlier I'm not completely anti-liberal, I just despise the radicals as you so described in your post. Without the liberal influence I admit this country would pretty piss.


(But not as piss as if the liberals took over.. :lol: )



Edit: Sorry, looks like I was a little late getting this in....Yes is a good band.

[QUOTE=Ripper22]Quoted so you can see...

Anyway, I only have the Yes album and Fragile. They keep me happy, though.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, Politics got boring to me because unless I was supremely controversial I got few responses because the arguments there are so formulaic and between the same people every time :(

Both are good albums, you should look into close to the edge as well though :)

[QUOTE=cjborton]Well Ripper, to continue the discussion...I liked what you said in the last post because I agree that the government NEEDS a balance of both sides. Despite how I may have come off earlier I'm not completely anti-liberal, I just despise the radicals as you so described in your post. Without the liberal influence I admit this country would pretty piss.


(But not as piss as if the liberals took over.. :lol: )[/QUOTE]

:lol: A nation of "womyn" and other such perversions, no doubt!

Yeah, I hear you on that one. Radicals of any kind piss me off because they are universally operating under either one obvious delusion or the other, and this applies to both liberals and conservatives. I mean, politically I'm such a liberal. I feel the way I do simply because that I feel that it's the right way for me to think about things, and I try to incorporate as many viewpoints as I can into my own ultimate opinion. Too many people are not guilty of even the effort it takes to try and look at things that way.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]Ah yes, Politics got boring to me because unless I was supremely controversial I got few responses because the arguments there are so formulaic and between the same people every time :(

Both are good albums, you should look into close to the edge as well though :)[/QUOTE]

True, and will do. What about "Tales from Topographic Oceans?"

Likin' the politics/Yes parallel universe convo we've got going here.

[QUOTE=Ripper22]True, and will do. What about "Tales from Topographic Oceans?"

Likin' the politics/Yes parallel universe convo we've got going here.[/QUOTE]

I enjoy Relayer and Close to the Edge the most, but I never really heard any that I didn't like.

[QUOTE=Ripper22]True, and will do. What about "Tales from Topographic Oceans?"

Likin' the politics/Yes parallel universe convo we've got going here.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I have no doubt heard it, as I was raised on Yes, but I don't have it, so I can't recommend it, but CTTE, Fragile and Yes Album all were successive releases (reverse order I listed them) and were definitely when Yes was at the top of the game, TFTO was a later release and not released during one of their better periods, but I feel you can't really go wrong with Yes.
Yeah...but Yes>Politics ;)...we could always mix it and discuss Yes' political lyrics :lol:

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]To be honest, I have no doubt heard it, as I was raised on Yes, but I don't have it, so I can't recommend it, but CTTE, Fragile and Yes Album all were successive releases (reverse order I listed them) and were definitely when Yes was at the top of the game, TFTO was a later release and not released during one of their better periods, but I feel you can't really go wrong with Yes.
Yeah...but Yes>Politics ;)...we could always mix it and discuss Yes' political lyrics :lol:[/QUOTE]

I forgot about Fragile too. Roundabout was the first Yes song I heard being that its the most radio played of their songs it seems.Yes album was also decent, Clap and Venture were good tunes.

Ok, you guys, I'm real sleepy so I'm gonna go to bed soon.

But first...where's Jason(Riva)? I haven't been on much lately, so maybe I've just missed him, but he's usually on at this time, yes?

He hasn't spoken to me since I had to go to bed two weeks ago and he said I abandoned him. :upset:


...perhaps...it would be...better...if we never talked again!
/cries



Did I mention I was sleepy?

[QUOTE=cjborton]I forgot about Fragile too. Roundabout was the first Yes song I heard being that its the most radio played of their songs it seems.Yes album was also decent, Clap and Venture were good tunes.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, their older stuff was very solid, but I also like the poppier stuff like 90125.

I'm tired too, I'll be off in a min or two no doubt...

All right, I'm out. Good night.

Me too. Night :wave:

See you guys later.

Anyone still around? Jason, I saw you lurking in a thread...

I'm here.

Ahh, Hows it going? Is that Kiera Knightly in your avatar? Yeah, I'm on the last level of Call of Duty SP, so I reckon I'll be checking out MP later this week.