good pop music is still good music. too many people are snobby about music.

To put things into perspective:

Think of pop artists/bands/etc as a business. Like any business they are in it to make a profit. To make said profit, the music has to constrain to certain norms so that it will first be accepted by a radio programmer, and then the radio listener. And then hopefully it either sells records, or generates money in other ways (such as making it a big enough song to star in the next Apple advert). It needs to be almost perfectly in time, perfectly in tune, and hardly ever break the 4 minute mark. These are the simple facts of pop and what people now accept to be common practice. Whether it makes them legitimate as an artist or not is irrelevant, because their target market (see: general masses) do not give one flying fuck about their legitimacy as an artist. Hell they barely care about much past the lead vocal and the beat/groove.

Now, I don't know about you, but I can think of far worse business practices to make a profit than tuning a vocal, aligning drums to a grid and writing simply structured and predictable songs. Ya know, like dumping waste in a river/ocean/lake, aggressively preventing electric cars from being produced because there is too much money oil, animal testing, laying off 1000's of workers, extreme mark ups on the cost price, illegal business practice (see Telecom), lack of customer service...etcetcetc.

To get angry enough to actually post on a web forum that you dislike Auto-tune is kind of silly. If you don't like it, don't listen to it, don't talk about it, don't post about it, don't even think about it. It shouldn't worry you. Just go listen to the music you do like and leave it to the general masses to consume. It won't make you feel any better ranting about it on a almost defunct forum.

What will make you feel better is going and doing better in the music industry than these aforementioned pop artists. But wait, you probably can't, you don't have the talent/connections/personality to succeed, whether you wanted to or not.


/rant.

[quote=Convectuoso;18595821]To put things into perspective:

Think of pop artists/bands/etc as a business. Like any business they are in it to make a profit. To make said profit, the music has to constrain to certain norms so that it will first be accepted by a radio programmer, and then the radio listener. And then hopefully it either sells records, or generates money in other ways (such as making it a big enough song to star in the next Apple advert). It needs to be almost perfectly in time, perfectly in tune, and hardly ever break the 4 minute mark. These are the simple facts of pop and what people now accept to be common practice. Whether it makes them legitimate as an artist or not is irrelevant, because their target market (see: general masses) do not give one flying fuck about their legitimacy as an artist. Hell they barely care about much past the lead vocal and the beat/groove.

Now, I don't know about you, but I can think of far worse business practices to make a profit than tuning a vocal, aligning drums to a grid and writing simply structured and predictable songs. Ya know, like dumping waste in a river/ocean/lake, aggressively preventing electric cars from being produced because there is too much money oil, animal testing, laying off 1000's of workers, extreme mark ups on the cost price, illegal business practice (see Telecom), lack of customer service...etcetcetc.

To get angry enough to actually post on a web forum that you dislike Auto-tune is kind of silly. If you don't like it, don't listen to it, don't talk about it, don't post about it, don't even think about it. It shouldn't worry you. Just go listen to the music you do like and leave it to the general masses to consume. It won't make you feel any better ranting about it on a almost defunct forum.

What will make you feel better is going and doing better in the music industry than these aforementioned pop artists. But wait, you probably can't, you don't have the talent/connections/personality to succeed, whether you wanted to or not.


/rant.[/quote]

That being said, do you do any pitch correction on vocalists that you record?

I've tried using pitch correction on stuff. It's actually really hard to make a bad vocal sound good on it. And I'd say when you're using on a good singer who's just a little bit out on a couple of words, it would be more time effective and give a better result to get them to re-record the line. The use of it as a deliberate vocal effect is an entirely different matter.

Yeah, as a deliberate effect, it can be awesome.

Also, my soundcloud plays are up by 1100% this week. lolwut

[QUOTE=BenJammin;18595921]Also, my soundcloud plays are up by 1100% this week. lolwut[/QUOTE]
You had 11 more views than 0? Lol :p

[QUOTE=FunkMetalBass;18595855]That being said, do you do any pitch correction on vocalists that you record?[/QUOTE]
On a project I just worked on I had to. It was requested by the producer. We didn't flat line anything, just kinda evened it out. But my main thing I've got going on with this dude I'm not. Well, actually on one song I might have to. It comes down to more than just "re recording another take". What if you don't have access to the same mic you used on the original session? Then you have to go through the cluster fuck of gain matching and EQing the new take to sound like the old mic. Whilst doable, it's easier just to shift the note up, no harm, no foul.

As FB says, it's really hard to get a bad take to sound good without noticeable artifacts. You have to have the performance there (think in terms of it's hard to make a bass tone sound good at the mix if it aint there in the first place), and if it's all basically on, you can make the decision to make it 'perfectly' on. Usually that means shifting it like 1-10 cents up or down, and not even touching transitions to notes.

I dropped the cash on Melodyne Editor (with Direct Note Access) after working on this project. You can change a fucking minor chord to a major just by shifting one note!

[QUOTE=Convectuoso;18596317]You had 11 more views than 0? Lol :p[/QUOTE]

...not far from the truth. :(

I hear you man :(

I've had 78 plays this week. Out of my total of 358.

lmao

[IMG]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjkmVO-ShWzZKTxlRqzXtlqDy9WqrMT-BC1g8Lf_oLh7D3KZXgCw[/IMG]

[IMG]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHDmSOqLsCbtRskLhqhu4QO8w03eojf3S-XC38VVj7NsIPX1M[/IMG]

[IMG]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFyGovFxE3f-XGeJGV8kp1JhZ1EQpQdyOlEYPemFDYUWPSifEv[/IMG]

[IMG]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnm8V7qFL4_SCXGz8MKJAkIPOjrmRKvzcIpkQKS0Qv6ogmdTrU[/IMG] (The foam thing not the mic)


All coming my way very soon XD

[QUOTE=FunkMetalBass;18595639]"Pop" is an unfortunate category for music. It's purely popular music, but the general consensus is that pop music is soul-less profiteering, and that's not necessarily true.[/QUOTE]

See here's where I disagree, I think "pop" and popular music are completely different. By that definition, Offspring was pop, U2 is pop, etc... Anyway, I don't want to get bogged down in this, I hate unnecessary over-categorisation more than I hate pop. Eg. Nah man, that's not post-punk, that's more post-grunge because there's slightly more distortion on the guitars and the tempo is 5BPM slower on average.

[QUOTE=fatbandit;18595692]good pop music is still good music. too many people are snobby about music.[/QUOTE]

My problem is that too much pop music is just generic and derivative. See: Lady Gaga, the only reason she's anywhere is because Madonna's too old to appeal to Generation Y and she's won the competition of who can do the weirdest shit. Christina's latest album was blatantly in the vein of Gaga and it got shitcanned commercially.

[quote=Convectuoso;18596317]You had 11 more views than 0? Lol :p[/quote]

It would be 1 view last week, 12 this week. (11-0)/0 = infinite %. :thumb:

[quote=Convectuoso;18596323]On a project I just worked on I had to. It was requested by the producer. We didn't flat line anything, just kinda evened it out. But my main thing I've got going on with this dude I'm not. Well, actually on one song I might have to. It comes down to more than just "re recording another take". What if you don't have access to the same mic you used on the original session? Then you have to go through the cluster fuck of gain matching and EQing the new take to sound like the old mic. Whilst doable, it's easier just to shift the note up, no harm, no foul.

As FB says, it's really hard to get a bad take to sound good without noticeable artifacts. You have to have the performance there (think in terms of it's hard to make a bass tone sound good at the mix if it aint there in the first place), and if it's all basically on, you can make the decision to make it 'perfectly' on. Usually that means shifting it like 1-10 cents up or down, and not even touching transitions to notes.

I dropped the cash on Melodyne Editor (with Direct Note Access) after working on this project. You can change a fucking minor chord to a major just by shifting one note![/quote]

Oh, of course. Although the MythBusters disproved it, it coaligns with the old adage that you can't polish a turd. I was just curious if you thought it necessary to touch up a great singer's +/- 7 cents variance or not.

[quote=funkyhoney;18596593]See here's where I disagree, I think "pop" and popular music are completely different. By that definition, Offspring was pop, U2 is pop, etc... Anyway, I don't want to get bogged down in this, I hate unnecessary over-categorisation more than I hate pop. Eg. Nah man, that's not post-punk, that's more post-grunge because there's slightly more distortion on the guitars and the tempo is 5BPM slower on average.[/quote]

By definition, "pop" is (or used to mean) "popular", but in a sense, I think you're right that they are no longer one and the same. Genres are impossible for me to keep track of anymore.

[quote=funkyhoney;18596594]My problem is that too much pop music is just generic and derivative. See: Lady Gaga, the only reason she's anywhere is because Madonna's too old to appeal to Generation Y and she's won the competition of who can do the weirdest shit. Christina's latest album was blatantly in the vein of Gaga and it got shitcanned commercially.[/quote]

Iit's true. The first time I heard her, I thought it was a new Madonna single. Nobody cared about her back in the day when she was the cute and talented Stefani G.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM51qOpwcIM[/url]

[QUOTE=Convectuoso;18595821]To put things into perspective:

Think of pop artists/bands/etc as a business. Like any business they are in it to make a profit. To make said profit, the music has to constrain to certain norms so that it will first be accepted by a radio programmer, and then the radio listener. And then hopefully it either sells records, or generates money in other ways (such as making it a big enough song to star in the next Apple advert). It needs to be almost perfectly in time, perfectly in tune, and hardly ever break the 4 minute mark. These are the simple facts of pop and what people now accept to be common practice. Whether it makes them legitimate as an artist or not is irrelevant, because their target market (see: general masses) do not give one flying fuck about their legitimacy as an artist. Hell they barely care about much past the lead vocal and the beat/groove.

Now, I don't know about you, but I can think of far worse business practices to make a profit than tuning a vocal, aligning drums to a grid and writing simply structured and predictable songs. Ya know, like dumping waste in a river/ocean/lake, aggressively preventing electric cars from being produced because there is too much money oil, animal testing, laying off 1000's of workers, extreme mark ups on the cost price, illegal business practice (see Telecom), lack of customer service...etcetcetc.

To get angry enough to actually post on a web forum that you dislike Auto-tune is kind of silly. If you don't like it, don't listen to it, don't talk about it, don't post about it, don't even think about it. It shouldn't worry you. Just go listen to the music you do like and leave it to the general masses to consume. It won't make you feel any better ranting about it on a almost defunct forum.

What will make you feel better is going and doing better in the music industry than these aforementioned pop artists. But wait, you probably can't, you don't have the talent/connections/personality to succeed, whether you wanted to or not.


/rant.[/QUOTE]

Whilst I have my own grievances about autotune and music and purity and all those clichés, I can understand why pop music does it. What I can't understand is when the vast majority of mainstream music and "urban" music (don't even get me started on the racism that is "urban") tend to use autotune as an effect on every song. I understand it was a cool effect like when kraftwerk used it, but now it's just old and sounds truely horrible. I mean black eyed peas, victoria beckham, Ke$ha and all manner of other nonsense. I mean there's not even an attempt at a song, it's just autotuning flat vocals, often even rapping http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSD4vsh1zDA

Lady Gaga is awesome. I don't like her music very much but she understands exactly what you have to do to be hugely rich and famous - all the crazy outfits are what make her a success, and I can't think of anyone who works harder just to keep people talking.

Stefani Germanotta was never going to be that famous because when you're a really cute girl singing songs, so what? Everyone has seen that already. Her music is nothing particularly unique, it's just the same old kind of thing, but when you throw in all the weird outfits and media attention that generates - bam, superstar. That's what being a huge pop star is about these days: the most important thing is media attention, secondary to that is the video clip product, and third placed (if that) is the actual music.

She knew exactly how to play the game and did it, so I say, fair play to her. I don't think her music is terrible, the two songs I've heard I'm pretty down with.

Hottest chick going, love it.

Love the Dirty Loops cover of Just Dance too, those kids are tight.

Speaking of stupid music, I found a track I did a while back, but forgot to upload. It's full of dumb synths and arpeggiator abuse.

[url]http://soundcloud.com/ben-lesser/the-lost-shore[/url]

Selling some stuff

[url]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f213/fs-eventide-pitchfactor-%24300-cad-794858/[/url]

[url]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f213/creation-audio-labs-holy-fire-distortion-overdrive-%2470-cad-794854/[/url]

I'll knock another $10 off if anyone from here buys either one of those.

Holy Fire is already sold. :)

Pitchfactor still up for grabs.

I wish I had the money for the pitch factor. I lost my court case, though, and unfortunately owe $300 to the state. :upset:

woah, you're a criminal now?

[quote=fatbandit;18601793]woah, you're a criminal now?[/quote]

Sure am! Got caught by a highway camera doing 76 mph in a 65 mph zone at midnight (that stretch of freeway throws everyone off because the speed limit drops from 75 only a few miles back). Never got the original ticket in the mail because I'd recently moved and I was improperly served. Went to court to fight the service, and it was ruled a proper serving, but they did wave all the late fees, so I only have to pay the original ticket and court fees. It's still an Evantide Pitchfactor's worth, though. :upset:

Too bad. :-P

It's a sweet pedal, would like a good home for it.

[quote=BenJammin;18601985]Too bad. :-P

It's a sweet pedal, would like a good home for it.[/quote]

Although I can't justify buying another pedal, that home is probably my pedal board.

So, how should I tune my fretless 6 when I re-assemble it? My thoughts are:

B E A D G C
C# F# B E A D
E A D G C F (octave below standard 4-string)

c c c c c c

[quote=fatbandit;18602913]c c c c c c[/quote]

C00 - C0 - C1 - C2 - C3 - C3
0.254 - 0.124 - 0.61 - .029 - .014 - .014

Could be cool, but quite annoying for quick scale runs.

Amazingly, that would cost less than two of the sets I mentioned.

[QUOTE=FunkMetalBass;18602836]So, how should I tune my fretless 6 when I re-assemble it? My thoughts are:

B E A D G C
C# F# B E A D
E A D G C F (octave below standard 4-string)[/QUOTE]

So, basically your choices are a) standard, b) stupidly low, and c) incomprehensibly low?

Oh wow... how will I ever choose...

:thumb:

lol ryan

Sold my Pitchfactor, in other news! Not that I had any worries about that one. Pitchfactors hold their value well because they're such hot pedals. I will probably regret this in about 5 months when I start playing bass more actively again. :(