[quote]Not to mention the fact that the lyrics to one of the sections is terrible (sailing on the seven seize the day tripper, etc.). Petrucci is the only member of the band that can actually write decent lyrics and he really should be the only one writing lyrics.[/quote]

That part is just a giant homage to rock, mostly progressive rock from the 60's and 70's.

Even though Petrucci has written great lyrics in the past(see: Scarred), he has been getting progressively worse. The best two lyricists the band ever had were Myung and Moore. Myung stopped submitting lyrics to the band because they put a stipulation on lyrics that they had to be in a structured form or they would not use them at all, so Myung stopped submitting his abstract poetry, and well we all know what happened to Kevin Moore. Portnoy pulls some great lyrics out every now and then (ACOS, TGP/TDS/TROAE), but a lot of his stuff isn't that great. They really need to take a step back and look at the lyrics of then and now.

Yeah, the maturity level has really gone down... its like they're 13 years old again.

[QUOTE=Tails]That part is just a giant homage to rock, mostly progressive rock from the 60's and 70's.

[/QUOTE]

So? You don't put lyrics like that in a serious song and than expect it to be taken seriously. It doesn't fit the song and it drags the song down a bit from where it could have been. It's still a great song IMO.

I saw them yesterday, they rocked.

from the new cd they played:
the root of all evil
and
Panic Attack

:D

No 8vm? No These Walls?

[QUOTE=Otherside]I was really annoyed by Petrucci's lyrics in Sacrificed Sons. I don't need politics in [U]my[/U] Dream Theater.[/QUOTE]
So they need your approval when they write lyrics?

The thing is, their lyrics have never been that great. Myung wrote "Learning to Live", and that's it as far as I know, and that song is amazing both instrumentally and lyrically. Petrucci writes decent lyrics, but it's all average out-of-your-*** crap. Portnoy writes more edgy stuff, which I like. What really pisses me off is LaBrie's lack of a serious lyrical contribution to the band. He is the singer, right? He didn't even write all the lyrics to his solo album (Elements of Persuasion). I'm thinking: what the hell does this guy do other than what they tell him to? He's a good singer, but he sucks at writing.

Jordan Ruddess isn't a great lyricist, either. Listen to his last solo album (Rhythm of Time). There are a couple of songs with singing, he wrote the lyrics; somewhat similar to Petrucci's stuff.

My point is: I agree with everyone saying they really need to fix up their lyrics. But honestly, I never find the time to pay attention to lyrics anyway and analyze hidden messages or anything. I just listen to the vocal melody, and they're getting that part right, at least. But honestly, they really have to step it up. The lyrics have gotten progressively worse. The reason the title track of "Octavarium" disappointed me so much is because I was expecting an abstract story such as we saw on ACOS, which was basically the story of somebody's life in perspective. Those were amazing lyrics. But "Octavarium" didn't even tell a **** story. It was just random crap like "I don't want to be like him, and now I do" (????). And then that jibberish "sailing on the seven sieze the day tripper diem" thing, which could have been catchy, but it didn't belong in an epic song like "Octavarium", and LaBrie sang it totally wrong. He should've rapped it. What do you guys think?

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Well, the comparisons are inevitable it seems, but DT's musical talent instrumentally is no excuse for subpar lyrics. You pay attention to what you do, I guess, but take a band like Tool, which manages to be insanely interesting on both levels. Dream Theater takes enough criticism for being too instrument-focused, and they can't afford to not bust their asses on every aspect of composition. You can tell when a musician is half-assing something, even if it's better than most other artists' best. It's still half-assing.

Let's face it: I'll need another album to be sure, but DT has been together for a decade plus, running on two. Very few bands have it together compositionally for such a long time. My opinion, they peaked with 6 Degrees. They have few places left to go, it seems. They'll be met with criticism no matter what modifications they make to their sound. That's what you get when a band sets such uncompromising standards for itself from the outset: a band that writes itself into a corner and has nowhere left to go by the end.

Look at a band like Rush. That band, it can be argued, has been tired at a lot of points in its career, most notably in the late '80s. But the difference is, they changed anyway, against the tides of their fans, and certainly against the tides of mainstream influence, from their shifts from 70s hard rock/proto-prog-metal to 80s synth-pop/Andy-Summers-type rock, and then to their 90s sound. That's why they're one of the best progressive bands: their sound changed, and they had no issues as a three piece with challenging each other musically.

But now later fans can look back and see that they've truly progressed and that's why so many of their eras provide literally 30-something albums of enjoyment. The same can hardly be said for Dream Theater: after about 9 or 10 albums, a few flaws in their sound have remained depressingly constant with little effort made to change them The instrumental prowess displays are among them. They're boring by now, but on the other hand Dream Theater as we know it would cease to exist if they were not there. Classic case of a band writing itself into a corner.

When you have five monster instrumentalists all vying for a piece of the composition, and a singer that doesn't do a thing except sing and leave when the rest of the boys play by themselves, and with very rigid roles for each bandmate, original-sounding composition becomes difficult. And a TON of Dream Theater songs are very derivitive, although that isn't immediately apparent because of the sheer skill on display. There have been more complaints about that lack of originality lately, but even back in IAW days it was like a good combination of Queensryche and Rush with more chops. I don't know, I just think they're pretty done. We'll see with the next album, like I said, but this is a band that could be close to spent creatively.

[QUOTE=Cain]Well, the comparisons are inevitable it seems, but DT's musical talent instrumentally is no excuse for subpar lyrics. You pay attention to what you do, I guess, but take a band like Tool, which manages to be insanely interesting on both levels. Dream Theater takes enough criticism for being too instrument-focused, and they can't afford to not bust their asses on every aspect of composition. You can tell when a musician is half-assing something, even if it's better than most other artists' best. It's still half-assing.

Let's face it: I'll need another album to be sure, but DT has been together for a decade plus, running on two. Very few bands have it together compositionally for such a long time. My opinion, they peaked with 6 Degrees. They have few places left to go, it seems. They'll be met with criticism no matter what modifications they make to their sound. That's what you get when a band sets such uncompromising standards for itself from the outset: a band that writes itself into a corner and has nowhere left to go by the end.

Look at a band like Rush. That band, it can be argued, has been tired at a lot of points in its career, most notably in the late '80s. But the difference is, they changed anyway, against the tides of their fans, and certainly against the tides of mainstream influence, from their shifts from 70s hard rock/proto-prog-metal to 80s synth-pop/Andy-Summers-type rock, and then to their 90s sound. That's why they're one of the best progressive bands: their sound changed, and they had no issues as a three piece with challenging each other musically.

But now later fans can look back and see that they've truly progressed and that's why so many of their eras provide literally 30-something albums of enjoyment. The same can hardly be said for Dream Theater: after about 9 or 10 albums, a few flaws in their sound have remained depressingly constant with little effort made to change them The instrumental prowess displays are among them. They're boring by now, but on the other hand Dream Theater as we know it would cease to exist if they were not there. Classic case of a band writing itself into a corner.

When you have five monster instrumentalists all vying for a piece of the composition, and a singer that doesn't do a thing except sing and leave when the rest of the boys play by themselves, and with very rigid roles for each bandmate, original-sounding composition becomes difficult. And a TON of Dream Theater songs are very derivitive, although that isn't immediately apparent because of the sheer skill on display. There have been more complaints about that lack of originality lately, but even back in IAW days it was like a good combination of Queensryche and Rush with more chops. I don't know, I just think they're pretty done. We'll see with the next album, like I said, but this is a band that could be close to spent creatively.[/QUOTE]

Yeh I see what you mean.

[QUOTE=Cain]

Look at a band like Rush. That band, it can be argued, has been tired at a lot of points in its career, most notably in the late '80s. But the difference is, they changed anyway, against the tides of their fans, and certainly against the tides of mainstream influence, from their shifts from 70s hard rock/proto-prog-metal to 80s synth-pop/Andy-Summers-type rock, and then to their 90s sound. That's why they're one of the best progressive bands: their sound changed, and they had no issues as a three piece with challenging each other musically.

But now later fans can look back and see that they've truly progressed and that's why so many of their eras provide literally 30-something albums of enjoyment. The same can hardly be said for Dream Theater: after about 9 or 10 albums, a few flaws in their sound have remained depressingly constant with little effort made to change them The instrumental prowess displays are among them. They're boring by now, but on the other hand Dream Theater as we know it would cease to exist if they were not there. Classic case of a band writing itself into a corner.

When you have five monster instrumentalists all vying for a piece of the composition, and a singer that doesn't do a thing except sing and leave when the rest of the boys play by themselves, and with very rigid roles for each bandmate, original-sounding composition becomes difficult. And a TON of Dream Theater songs are very derivitive, although that isn't immediately apparent because of the sheer skill on display. There have been more complaints about that lack of originality lately, but even back in IAW days it was like a good combination of Queensryche and Rush with more chops. I don't know, I just think they're pretty done. We'll see with the next album, like I said, but this is a band that could be close to spent creatively.[/QUOTE]

123

[QUOTE=Cain]Well, the comparisons are inevitable it seems, but DT's musical talent instrumentally is no excuse for subpar lyrics. You pay attention to what you do, I guess, but take a band like Tool, which manages to be insanely interesting on both levels. Dream Theater takes enough criticism for being too instrument-focused, and they can't afford to not bust their asses on every aspect of composition. You can tell when a musician is half-assing something, even if it's better than most other artists' best. It's still half-assing.

Let's face it: I'll need another album to be sure, but DT has been together for a decade plus, running on two. Very few bands have it together compositionally for such a long time. My opinion, they peaked with 6 Degrees. They have few places left to go, it seems. They'll be met with criticism no matter what modifications they make to their sound. That's what you get when a band sets such uncompromising standards for itself from the outset: a band that writes itself into a corner and has nowhere left to go by the end.

Look at a band like Rush. That band, it can be argued, has been tired at a lot of points in its career, most notably in the late '80s. But the difference is, they changed anyway, against the tides of their fans, and certainly against the tides of mainstream influence, from their shifts from 70s hard rock/proto-prog-metal to 80s synth-pop/Andy-Summers-type rock, and then to their 90s sound. That's why they're one of the best progressive bands: their sound changed, and they had no issues as a three piece with challenging each other musically.

But now later fans can look back and see that they've truly progressed and that's why so many of their eras provide literally 30-something albums of enjoyment. The same can hardly be said for Dream Theater: after about 9 or 10 albums, a few flaws in their sound have remained depressingly constant with little effort made to change them The instrumental prowess displays are among them. They're boring by now, but on the other hand Dream Theater as we know it would cease to exist if they were not there. Classic case of a band writing itself into a corner.

When you have five monster instrumentalists all vying for a piece of the composition, and a singer that doesn't do a thing except sing and leave when the rest of the boys play by themselves, and with very rigid roles for each bandmate, original-sounding composition becomes difficult. And a TON of Dream Theater songs are very derivitive, although that isn't immediately apparent because of the sheer skill on display. There have been more complaints about that lack of originality lately, but even back in IAW days it was like a good combination of Queensryche and Rush with more chops. I don't know, I just think they're pretty done. We'll see with the next album, like I said, but this is a band that could be close to spent creatively.[/QUOTE]

Overall, I can see what you're saying. The Dream Theater camp is going to be pretty static for the next few years. There was some tiny variations on "Octavarium", such as "Never Enough", but other than that they're just repeating themselves. Although it's a good and enjoyable album, one of my favorites they've released, one think I've noticed is the blandness of the solos. They've become somewhat predictable and far less memorable than solos such as the one for "Lines in the Sand" or "Fatal Tragedy", or "Stream of Consciousness", or even "Metropolis pt 1".

If you guys pay attention, Dream Theater has been an episode type band. They had Metropolis, then they made Metropolis pt. 2. The new "episode" thing is "The Glass Prison/This Dying Soul/The Root of All Evil" series. Whereas I've liked all 3 songs, they need to do something more epic. I don't give a **** about alcoholics. They really need to rekindle some of those old candles, get back on the epic side of things.

[quote]He should've rapped it. [/quote]
No, Labrie should never rap anything again.

[QUOTE=MAthiAS]No, Labrie should never rap anything again.[/QUOTE]

He raps every now and then like on TDS and a bit on his solo album. I like it. It's original, at least.

[QUOTE=MAthiAS]No, Labrie should never rap anything again.[/QUOTE]
lol

[QUOTE=MAthiAS]No 8vm? No These Walls?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, seriously. They could atleast play those two.

[quote]He raps every now and then like on TDS and a bit on his solo album. I like it. It's original, at least.[/quote]
Just because its different doesn't mean its good. He's Canadian, we can't rap.

[QUOTE=MAthiAS]Just because its different doesn't mean its good. He's Canadian, we can't rap.[/QUOTE]

That's true. Who could forget the brilliance of Snow and his breathtaking hit single "Informer"?

[QUOTE=the2stranger]I saw them yesterday, they rocked.

from the new cd they played:
the root of all evil
and
Panic Attack

:D[/QUOTE]

How long was their set? I would expect them to play a lot more from the new album, and I'm sure in their headlining shows they will do.

well I for one agree that KM and Myung were the best lyric writers in the band. Take a look at OSI. Those lryics are ****ing amazing. And Learning to live is one of the best lryical songs DT has ever made. even though i can't stand labries vocal style, i would still be listening to them right now if the lryics were worth half a sh1t.

And no Labrie should be banned from rapping. It makes DT sound ****ing gay.

OSI? What?

They need to bring Kevin Moore back, and Portnoy and Petrucci need to regrow their hair. Maybe hanging with Mustaine all summer will make them cool again...

For the Labrie haters... who would you bring in to replace him? Stratovarius' singer?

[QUOTE=MAthiAS]OSI? What?

They need to bring Kevin Moore back, and Portnoy and Petrucci need to regrow their hair. Maybe hanging with Mustaine all summer will make them cool again...

For the Labrie haters... who would you bring in to replace him? Stratovarius' singer?[/QUOTE]

Last Tribe's singer. I'll upload tracks if anyone needs a sample, since I don't believe they are quite well-known. But he'd be my pick. He's got all the power of Labrie but a more pleasent tone and much better breath support, power, and intonation. I bet on quiet songs he doesn't shiver the note all to cheezy hell like LaBrie does.

Feh, sorry. I sound like such a DT hater now. :( But anyway, yeah, Last Tribe's singer would be my pick. He's the only power metal vocalist with a real, true voice that I've heard.

[QUOTE=MAthiAS]Maybe hanging with Mustaine all summer will make them cool again...[/QUOTE]
is this implying Mustaine's cool? :p

[QUOTE=slappindabass]Overall, I can see what you're saying. The Dream Theater camp is going to be pretty static for the next few years. There was some tiny variations on "Octavarium", such as "Never Enough", but other than that they're just repeating themselves. Although it's a good and enjoyable album, one of my favorites they've released, one think I've noticed is the blandness of the solos. They've become somewhat predictable and far less memorable than solos such as the one for "Lines in the Sand" or "Fatal Tragedy", or "Stream of Consciousness", or even "Metropolis pt 1".

If you guys pay attention, Dream Theater has been an episode type band. They had Metropolis, then they made Metropolis pt. 2. The new "episode" thing is "The Glass Prison/This Dying Soul/The Root of All Evil" series. Whereas I've liked all 3 songs, they need to do something more epic. I don't give a **** about alcoholics. They really need to rekindle some of those old candles, get back on the epic side of things.[/QUOTE]

I really liked The Glass Prison "series" of songs...they are some of my favorite DT songs. I think the band put a LOT more effort into these than some of their other songs...they are chock full of some of the most talented riffs that DT has ever wrote. The solos are excellent...the vocals are more decent than others, save for the bit of rapping in TDS. The lyrics are forgiveable...there are better lyrics, but there are also worse lyrics.

However, yes, DT is starting to show its age. Octavarium, while it had a few good songs, i did NOT like at all. It seemed way too poppy for me...DT should do more of their ACOS or 6DOIT styled music than this new style...

Somebody said Portnoy and Petrucci should regrow their hair...doesn't Portnoy still have long hair? He had a mullet-type style on the Live at Budokan DVD at least...Petrucci I agree on, he looks...homosexual with that short and dyed hair he has. (Again, Live at Budokan, he looks like his hair is dyed blonde in the front)

[QUOTE=vashts80]Somebody said Portnoy and Petrucci should regrow their hair...doesn't Portnoy still have long hair? He had a mullet-type style on the Live at Budokan DVD at least...Petrucci I agree on, he looks...homosexual with that short and dyed hair he has. (Again, Live at Budokan, he looks like his hair is dyed blonde in the front)[/QUOTE]

??? Why? Are you going to jerk off to their hair? It's all about the music, buddy. Get your priorities straight.

[QUOTE=slappindabass]??? Why? Are you going to jerk off to their hair? It's all about the music, buddy. Get your priorities straight.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. These people have been pis[B][I][/I][/B]sing me off for a while. That is, people that criticize Metallica and DT and whoever else for cutting their hair.

"Their music sucks now because they have short hair. They need to grow it back so they can rock again."

This is ignorant. Length of hair has absolutely nothing to do with magnitude of rock. So get over it.

the as i am solo is savage

[quote]??? Why? Are you going to jerk off to their hair? It's all about the music, buddy. Get your priorities straight.[/quote]
And the music sucks, and we have to blame something.
[quote]"Their music sucks now because they have short hair. They need to grow it back so they can rock again."[/quote]
I highly doubt anyone ever says that with much seriousness.
[quote]This is ignorant. Length of hair has absolutely nothing to do with magnitude of rock. So get over it.[/quote]
Again...
[quote]the as i am solo is savage[/quote]
Savage wankage...

[QUOTE=juggalotricksta] Length of hair has absolutely nothing to do with magnitude of rock.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Some of you people have a hard time understanding what music is. If I braid my pubic hairs, does that suddenly mean that the style of music I am going to be performing in the future will be different than the status quo? No. Maybe hair matters with some bands, but in regards to Dream Theater, if you're going to see them at a show to see Myung rock his hair, or Portnoy do a backflip while he's drumming, or Petrucci smash his guitar, or Rudess play his piano with his back facing it, or LaBrie jumping into the crowd, you're at the wrong **** show. Dream Theater is all about the music. They're not trying to be Nirvana.

Stop ****ing attacking me you dickhead, it's a simple god****ed statement. In my opinion, Petrucci doesn't look right with short hair, just like I wouldn't look right with hair like LaBrie's.

[QUOTE=slappindabass]Exactly.

Some of you people have a hard time understanding what music is. If I braid my pubic hairs, does that suddenly mean that the style of music I am going to be performing in the future will be different than the status quo? No. Maybe hair matters with some bands, but in regards to Dream Theater, if you're going to see them at a show to see Myung rock his hair, or Portnoy do a backflip while he's drumming, or Petrucci smash his guitar, or Rudess play his piano with his back facing it, or LaBrie jumping into the crowd, you're at the wrong **** show. Dream Theater is all about the music. They're not trying to be Nirvana.[/QUOTE]
I would pay to see Myung just wave his hair around.. Although, I think he cut it a bit shorter?

Edit: If you honestly believe people are serious when they say "Petrucci/Portnoy should re-grow their hair" then you're just being silly. Think about it...

[quote]Edit: If you honestly believe people are serious when they say "Petrucci/Portnoy should re-grow their hair" then you're just being silly. Think about it...[/quote]
Exactly. Seriously, you're wasting your time writing that bro.

Myung has ****ing awseome hair, but altogether, hes quite boring on stage. hes an amazing player ythough, which counts.

The song Vacant...what is it based around? i was told it had something to do with La bries expiriences, wold this be correct?

^
it's one of the few songs he has written the lyrics for, so I guess, it's personal stuff.

but so is Portnoy's stuff, sometimes i feel like he should stop revealing his fücked up live to the world via his lyrics.
I mean I respect Portnoy very much, and feel sorry for him having gone through so much trouble, but no the entire world needs to know.

and the hair issue: length of hair has nothing to do with what music you play, but I think it does suit them better.
but that's just a mteer of taste ( i have long hair myself too), and has nothing to do with the way they write songs.

and before I end this post.
what do you guys think of the production of the albums?
I would like to see someone else produce their albums, Mike and Petrucci, produced the last 3, which were good production wise, but I would just like to hear what they would sound like, if someone else would produce.
opinions on this one?

[QUOTE=the2stranger]^
and before I end this post.
what do you guys think of the production of the albums?
I would like to see someone else produce their albums, Mike and Petrucci, produced the last 3, which were good production wise, but I would just like to hear what they would sound like, if someone else would produce.
opinions on this one?[/QUOTE]

When Portnoy and Petrucci produce the DT albums, the guitar always sounds really thick and heavy, the bass is in the background, hardly noticeable, the keyboards always surprise every now and then, and the drums are always there. Vocals are there. Overall I think it sounds good, they just have to fix up the bass and keyboard a bit.

Jordan Rudess produced his solo album "Rhythm of Time" and it sounds pretty **** good for 14 days of writing/mixing/producing. The bass, unlike in DT, is loud and clear, but not too loud, just the right mix. The guitar, however, isn't. But in regards to this album it sounds good. The keyboards, of course is loud and clear. The drums: good enough for me. Vocals: loud and clear.

James LaBrie produced his solo album "Elements of Persuasion". Honestly, on this album everything sounds muddy, especially the guitars. You can't even hear the keyboards (except for when they're under the clean piano effect), and the drums and bass are either nearly inaudible or muddy. The vocals sound okay, similar to DT except lesser quality effects on them.

All that is really left is Myung and honestly there is no way we can tell what he would do, but he's an amazing musician, an amazing poet, and an amazing visionary. We just have to wait and see.

But either way, I think Petrucci and Portnoy should stick to production.

I have a feeling theres so much more to Myung than anybody knows. He contributes little compared to MP & JP as far as the band goes...imagine if he was up front like they are. Its like hes a musical iceberg and we've only seen the tip.

[QUOTE=Chu]I would pay to see Myung just wave his hair around.[/QUOTE]

You've obviously never seen I&W Live in Tokyo ;)

Never seen a DT Video, well except for them doing Master of Puppets.

Should I get a DVD? :p

I just got Live At Budokan, and in the break in Beyond This Life around 37 minutes where Jordan does that amazing keyboard thing then goes right back into the solo is completely orgasmic...

I have:

- Live from Tokyo
- 5 years in a LiveTime
- Scenes from New York
- Live at Budokan

They are all worth it. Especially Live at Tokyo. Watching them perform the Ytse Jam............. is it even possible to play like that???

Grab at least a couple.

Yeh Myung is definatley a musical genius, and you're right we've only seen like 2% of his capacity. They need to let him just go crazy one day.