[QUOTE=Damien Rhodes]So Merkaba-1... I have read many of your lessons throughout the time I've been here. Now, I have practiced for about three months now, and I still suck horribly at singing. I am probably doing something wrong. I am more interested in harsh vocals though, and I can pull off a black metalish or Zao-style sound pretty well. But I want to go deeper and harsher. I dream about sounding like this guy: [url]http://www.myspace.com/styg[/url]

What could I do to train my voice better than just simple scales? I seriously can't hold a note if my life depended on it, and I have really practiced to the point that my throat feels like it's buzzing. Perhaps there is some special technique or excercise to get this exact style of vocals.

Thanks and sorry if this is a dumb question, which I'm sure it is.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Al Strzelecki]I think I figured out whats wrong with me. I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. is there any way i can help myself.[/QUOTE]

Lets not forget that we are on the net. If practicing is getting uncomfortable or if consistent practice doesnt seem to get you anywhere it might be time to seek some one on one. All I can do is keep trying to repeat what I've said in various ways to make it easier to understand. If none of what I've posted around here works for you then you might need something a little more personal.

Alright Merkaba - I bet you've answered this a thousand times but I'm having trouble finding it. How do I warm my voice up to scream? I'm in a grind band so I do a bunch of it. I'm a back up vocalist, like the rest of my band. Sometimes though, my throat hurts afterwards for a while. I never warm up and would rather do that than change my style because I like the way it sounds. Of course, if warming up doesn't help, I'll have to stop, but I'd rather try this first.

[QUOTE=Dancin' Man]Alright Merkaba - I bet you've answered this a thousand times but I'm having trouble finding it. How do I warm my voice up to scream? I'm in a grind band so I do a bunch of it. I'm a back up vocalist, like the rest of my band. Sometimes though, my throat hurts afterwards for a while. I never warm up and would rather do that than change my style because I like the way it sounds. Of course, if warming up doesn't help, I'll have to stop, but I'd rather try this first.[/QUOTE]

Hotline [url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Lets not forget that we are on the net. If practicing is getting uncomfortable or if consistent practice doesnt seem to get you anywhere it might be time to seek some one on one. All I can do is keep trying to repeat what I've said in various ways to make it easier to understand. If none of what I've posted around here works for you then you might need something a little more personal.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that I only know one voice instructor in my area. I live in a small town. :-(

This one teacher is very hard headed and rligious, and only teaches gospel. If you even suggest other forms of music to her, she starts subtly degrading your music tastes. My little cousin takes voice lessons from her. :-/

I think I will look around for more of your posts. So far, I haven't seen much info about how to get that deep voiced growl going, but I will do some more searching. If you remember any posts you made about this particular style, please post 'em.

ok i have a problem....
i want to be able to sing (decently) ...but the thing is my voice doesnt sound musical...even though i can diferrentiate between different notes..and melodies...when i record myself...i m not happy with the sound.....its not at all musical and sounds really...dry...(tryed drinking water) ...

i cant go high since i used to play alot of Counterstrike and use to yell alot...so my high vocie doesnt even come out....just air comes out..i m trying to fix that by huming and holding notes....though the mid and bass is fine....

(2) if i'm playing a D chord on the guitar ....should i be singing a D note too or should i be singing A note ..like in a harmony?

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You just need to practice and do glisses....holding a vowel from your low or mid up to your highest with one continuous sweep. It will help you keep the cords in vibration. If you cant hold them together as you thin them out(up in pitch) then they wont vibrate. And be sure youre not overpushing, especially if youre talking about falsetto high notes.

Many people dont like their voices. Saying that is doesnt sound musical doesnt really give us any information. Your voice might be nice as far as other people are concerned. Maybe post a sample if you can. Be sure youre not tensing up or squeezing the layrnx(voicebox, adams apple). Have you been in the hotline thread?

yea i ve read ure ...hotline thread..screaming,warmups, went to ure soundclick thread to....btw your doing everyone a big favor...by taking out your own time and helping em....
THANKS......
sampleeeeeeee ....hmm lemme see

can i mail u the mp3?
email?

Anyone think it would be a good idea to make a ...."Vocal Testimony" thread, or something like that? Where vocalists tell us how they got where they are today....and where they plan on going/doing. Or should I just do that in here. Or should....i just not do that at all. Its like late...im weird now. I really want help tho.

1.That 'rasp' wasn't really....rasp, I don't think.
1.Anyway, I tried singing the notes, but i have touble with that. How do i sing them? they arent sung, and its ...really kind of monotone (that's what im hearing anyway).

It's I dunno, 94 Hours by As I Lay Dying. Look for it on [url]www.Launch.com[/url] if you dont know how to find it. I can sure yell loud, and...I'm not the greatest singer, but I could do basic stuff. It just doesn't sound like I could 'sing'(as opposed to screaming) any of this.

I'm gonna go read over the hotline again...

[QUOTE=Shreddererer]Anyone think it would be a good idea to make a ...."Vocal Testimony" thread, or something like that? Where vocalists tell us how they got where they are today....and where they plan on going/doing. Or should I just do that in here. Or should....i just not do that at all. Its like late...im weird now. I really want help tho.

1.That 'rasp' wasn't really....rasp, I don't think.
1.Anyway, I tried singing the notes, but i have touble with that. How do i sing them? they arent sung, and its ...really kind of monotone (that's what im hearing anyway).

It's I dunno, 94 Hours by As I Lay Dying. Look for it on [url]www.Launch.com[/url] if you dont know how to find it. I can sure yell loud, and...I'm not the greatest singer, but I could do basic stuff. It just doesn't sound like I could 'sing'(as opposed to screaming) any of this.

I'm gonna go read over the hotline again...[/QUOTE]
It has good intentions, but it would just get spammed up by people who aren't posting their stories and goals. :-(

Anyone know some other sites I could check for vocal instruction? Perhaps another forum? I can't find any help around here about the specific style I want, which is a deep-voiced growl similar to [url=http://www.hxcmp3.com/bands/13129/index.php]this[/url].

Its all the same. What would you expect anyone to say as far as advice goes, if you really stop and think about it? There are no magic tricks. You have to practice. If you want a deep growl you have to be able to sing and hold the note first. All rasp takes place in the back of the throat where we always stress. You have to be able to seperate the larynx muscles from the vocal cord muscles so that you can hold the pitch(note) and add/manipulate the rest of the throat to get a rasp affect, if you cant just do it naturally. Deep, low, mid or high notes are made by vibrating the cords at different thicknesses and speeds. Thats what makes sound. The raspy/growl affect comes from the glottal region of the throat, or the part you use to get a dog bark or the ANNNK wrong answer sound. And you can try to "Gargle" the note to get in touch with this area of the throat.

The problem is, I can't get my voice to go very low. What can I do to work on that? I mainly checked around these boards about screaming, not so much about normal vocals.

Trust your instincts: If you cant sing it you cant scream it. Thats only logical. You do the same thing to scream and sing....except to scream you do it harder with more pressure from the half blocked off throat which kinda acts like a thumb on the water hose, it creates a jet of higher pressure....this can be good and/or bad.

getting your voice lower is harder than getting it higher. To lower pitch your cords have to thicken and still keep shape to vibrate. All you can do that I know of is to just sing low stuff and keep trying to sing lower. I would start off slower lighter to make sure you have proper technique. Plus you have to work it enough to make your body want to change and not think its a fluke of living that it doesnt need to cater too. So that means everyday you should be doing some work.

Sounds good. Thanks. :-)

[QUOTE]It has good intentions, but it would just get spammed up by people who aren't posting their stories and goals. :-([/QUOTE]
true...well if anyone has anything like this to post in here, feel free. That one guy that posted his voice at the end of page 4 in here sounded really great, imo....

Okay well I read over some stuff, and listened to all 5 samples of yours (merkeba) and recorded me again. Merkeba, you do only have 5 voice samples correct?

Well anyway heres me making a fool out of myself again.


[url]http://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34VHB0327HWBA22LLNBRK5G43I[/url]


I hear the same thing...it sounds like im making the same mistake. I dunno. I tried to let my voice ring out though, rather than just sorta making grunts, and my throat is kinda sore. I felt the rasp, it felt like it came from the very top of my throat, like kinda behind my head haha. That's where its sore though...

Anyone have any comments?

I'm not an expert or anything. Hell, I don't actually have any clue what I'm talking about when it comes to vocals, but your voice seems to be lacking power. Put more of a shout and "oompf!" into it, if you know what I mean.

I checked the guys back on page four and he can basically do the same style I want to, but his settings seem a bit weird. There is a strange crackling sound in his mic at points.

[QUOTE=Shreddererer]true...well if anyone has anything like this to post in here, feel free. That one guy that posted his voice at the end of page 4 in here sounded really great, imo....

Okay well I read over some stuff, and listened to all 5 samples of yours (merkeba) and recorded me again. Merkeba, you do only have 5 voice samples correct?

Well anyway heres me making a fool out of myself again.


[url]http://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34VHB0327HWBA22LLNBRK5G43I[/url]


I hear the same thing...it sounds like im making the same mistake. I dunno. I tried to let my voice ring out though, rather than just sorta making grunts, and my throat is kinda sore. I felt the rasp, it felt like it came from the very top of my throat, like kinda behind my head haha. That's where its sore though...

Anyone have any comments?[/QUOTE]


You dont sound like youre having a good time. Doesnt sound like youre relaxed. Doesnt sound like something you would want to do everynight on tour.

However, It [B]Does[/B] sound like you have an idea of where to get the rasp. I dont know how hard youre pushing because it seems like youre coming from a really closed off throat like youre trying to grunt the note. Now I remember in the lessons saying that this is the same area to get the rasp but only as an idea of feeling where and the muscles to use.

Sounds like you need to take a step back and do what I usually consider the biggest help lately. Sing. You sound like youre trying to rasp up the note so much youre not paying attention to how youre forming the note. And youre grunting the note before you even complete it. Do you feel like youre singing? I'm sure you dont. You should be coming from a place of normal singing like you were doing opera. Practice singing the part youre trying to scream, in a technical classroom way. I would like to hear a post of that. And hold on to notes where there is space to, so we can know if youre supporting your air properly.

Sing.
You have to walk before you can run.
Sing, relaxed, with a loose jaw and open throat like youre trying out for an opera.

lol i dont sing, but okay ill try. I mean like i dont sing at all, I dont know anything, and i havnt had lessons. should i atleast sing for a year or two, and have lots of vocal training and experience before i attempt this? Or attempt it along the way, and expect this much(real screaming) out of myself [I]after [/I] several years of singing etc.? I guess the answer would be yes...

btw i didnt see screaming as running, and singing as walking....but if it really is like that i guess i should set this screaming stuff down for a while.
I posted something earlier...
[QUOTE]
1.That 'rasp' wasn't really....rasp, I don't think.
1.Anyway, I tried singing the notes, but i have touble with that. How do i sing them? they arent sung, and its ...really kind of monotone (that's what im hearing anyway).
[/QUOTE]

This time it was a different song by the same band, but its the same thing; the same tone(s). Mostly monotone.more on this 2 paragraphs down...


[QUOTE=Damien Rhodes]
I'm not an expert or anything. Hell, I don't actually have any clue what I'm talking about when it comes to vocals, but your voice seems to be lacking power. Put more of a shout and "oompf!" into it, if you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]
hmm..yes, I know exactly what you mean, but I dunno if 'd want to do that...

It seemed like I was already overdoing it. Just....not "singing" it. I understand that this is (most likely) just a suggestion, but I don't think im gonna sing harder too much until I figure out how hard im really pushing. Merkeba had a point when he said he couldnt tell how hard I was pushing...










ok so umm...I guess I can hear the pitches this guy is doing....Ill try to sing it, but it wont really be like...normal singing i guess, it will be very very simple....it sounds like thats the way it should be sung(as opposed to screamed) anyway...do you think this is so?


[url]http://music.yahoo.com/ar-305518-videos--As-I-Lay-Dying[/url]

this is it...^^ Song-(94 Hours)


and also, another question....I dont kow if its been answered before or if its in a thread somewhere... How loud should this scream be, without a mic? I dunno if you can give me a general idea....I guess its just as loud as singing it, right? part of the problem( in my eyes) when i scream is i dont know how hard to push. I could push harder, but I dont know if its too hard.


Well thank you Merkeba, and Damien. Im being helped immensely again.... I feel like I need to give out guitar tips now or something.



I might keep going with this(screaming), but most likely I'll do what I typed in the top of this post....and try it again when I have more vocal experience overall.

[QUOTE=Shreddererer]lol i dont sing, but okay ill try. I mean like i dont sing at all, I dont know anything, and i havnt had lessons. should i atleast sing for a year or two, and have lots of vocal training and experience before i attempt this? Or attempt it along the way, and expect this much(real screaming) out of myself [I]after [/I] several years of singing etc.? I guess the answer would be yes...

btw i didnt see screaming as running, and singing as walking....but if it really is like that i guess i should set this screaming stuff down for a while.
I posted something earlier...


This time it was a different song by the same band, but its the same thing; the same tone(s). Mostly monotone.more on this 2 paragraphs down...



hmm..yes, I know exactly what you mean, but I dunno if 'd want to do that...

It seemed like I was already overdoing it. Just....not "singing" it. I understand that this is (most likely) just a suggestion, but I don't think im gonna sing harder too much until I figure out how hard im really pushing. Merkeba had a point when he said he couldnt tell how hard I was pushing...










ok so umm...I guess I can hear the pitches this guy is doing....Ill try to sing it, but it wont really be like...normal singing i guess, it will be very very simple....it sounds like thats the way it should be sung(as opposed to screamed) anyway...do you think this is so?


[url]http://music.yahoo.com/ar-305518-videos--As-I-Lay-Dying[/url]

this is it...^^ Song-(94 Hours)


and also, another question....I dont kow if its been answered before or if its in a thread somewhere... How loud should this scream be, without a mic? I dunno if you can give me a general idea....I guess its just as loud as singing it, right? part of the problem( in my eyes) when i scream is i dont know how hard to push. I could push harder, but I dont know if its too hard.


Well thank you Merkeba, and Damien. Im being helped immensely again.... I feel like I need to give out guitar tips now or something.



I might keep going with this(screaming), but most likely I'll do what I typed in the top of this post....and try it again when I have more vocal experience overall.[/QUOTE]
Notice I edited my last reply. I meant to say that you DO seem to have good idea of where to get the rasp. Thats half the battle.

Well really, do you think you were really "screaming"?? You know you werent. So that's how loud it should be. Some people can just get louder, some cant, but if its generated in a good way it wont matter, the tone will be there and the mic does the rest.

Yes when it comes to proper technique it is like walking and running. You answered why you're having some trouble: You said you dont sing. Because when you can relax the throat enough to let the cords move with equal breath pressure and not tense, then you will be able to sing louder and actually work yourself out for more strength instead of potentiall partially damaging yourself. If you can sing properly its easier to scream because all you do is push a bit harder and close the back of the throat a little. I havent seen too many screamers that couldnt carry at least a decent tune. But its not all that hard if you work and practice. I wouldnt just give up on screams by any thought. But you should practice conventional singing. You really need to be able to flip into head voice. Once you can work your head voice it automatically helps you relase some tension in the voice box. I just did a recent post on Finding The Head Voice in the [URL="http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911"]Voicehelp Hotline[/URL].

I have to leave to take ACTs right now, but I will come back later and check out your recording.

I don't really know how to describe that "oompf" sound to you, but I will try to record myself, because I can get it out, but it sounds like crap in my ears. I also want to get you guy's opinions on what I sound like, because only one person has ever heard me try to scream, and he was high at the time. So of course he loved it! :p

But I'll try to record so you can can compare yours to mine. I can only scream in short burst, because I can only practice while people are away at work and school in my house. They'd probably think I was dying if I practiced while they were hear. :lol:

I'm half asleep still, sorry if this post sounds a little off or something.

Someone says that I'm a baritone/tenor. What does that mean?

something to do with your range

[QUOTE]I have to leave to take ACTs right now, but I will come back later and check out your recording.

I don't really know how to describe that "oompf" sound to you, but I will try to record myself, because I can get it out, but it sounds like crap in my ears. I also want to get you guy's opinions on what I sound like, because only one person has ever heard me try to scream, and he was high at the time. So of course he loved it!

But I'll try to record so you can can compare yours to mine. I can only scream in short burst, because I can only practice while people are away at work and school in my house. They'd probably think I was dying if I practiced while they were hear.

[B]I'm half asleep still, sorry if this post sounds a little off or something[/B].
[/QUOTE]
nah, im alwyas half asleep when i type stuff...i hope it doesnt come out weird either haha. but nah i understood.


Merkeba thanks for the help again> I didn't mean I'd completely give up on the screaming, just try to get my singing down first.

I reorced this acousti song on my computer,and like i tryed making vocals to it,and it sounds like im talking sometimes,and when i try going high it goes really weak my voice,and like once in a while theres this part i do i really like,but i can never achieve it again, but i have a little chours of me singing with my band,im 14 years old by the way here it is,what do you tink i should improve,ill put up my acoustic one soon

[url]www.myspace.com/searchpartyrock[/url] i no this is advertisting,but this is the only way to hear my song

[QUOTE=Calimethar]Someone says that I'm a baritone/tenor. What does that mean?[/QUOTE]
It means you've got kinda a high pitched voice.

But baritone and tenor is a designation of your unstrained natural true voice range technically. It is used in technical and classical music and is where you get the term alto and soprano from.

Usually its like this...
Males: Bass, baritone,tenor
Females: alto, mezzo-soprano, soprano

its just too technical a thing nowadays to worry about if you sing rock or anything other than opera. In my opinion. Go here if you want: [url]http://www.aria-database.com/help.html[/url]

Just when you thought we were finished here...

BWAHA

Question 1.

I've been into System of a Down for a while now, and one of the aspects in Serjs voice (besides, the overall awesomeness) is his low pitch deathish screams. He uses them a fair bit throughout all the cd's, but I just want to know what they are technically called.

Whenever I try them, it feels like it's just a shift from head-voice-screams into low low low gut-voice-screams. But, they aren't growls, and I don't think they are "screams". What are they technically?

Question 2.

I saw a Live Video of 'Needles' and noticed the technique both Daron and Serj use to pull them off. Firstly, they make their lips into a kind of fish shape mouth, but Serj also [I]cups[/I] his hands over the microphone.

Now, my attempts at getting the sound have been pretty good so far, but it's missing alot of body that should be there. Everything feels "right", but how important is the microphone and hand position in this case? Anyone have any ideas?

If you need samples, point me in the direction of a place to upload them too, and I'll sort something out.

Just being curious....Again. Thankyou :thumb:

1. Technically its called whatever you want to call it. Its up to us to name these things because classical musical approaches give us the other techanical names we use like head and falsetto, and rightfully so there is no classical name for a note that is pushed harder and partially blocked off because, technique wise, there is no difference. Really, its nothing but a note that is sung harder and partially blocked by the throat.

2. If you havent read my isolation thread in the voicehelp hotline then do so, because:
2b. Joe Blow can get the same sound by moving his lips in the opposite way and holding the mic differently.

If youre missing body, youre not isolating properly or youre just not strong enough to keep the cords in optimal vibrational thickness and shape for the given force youre pushing.

For anyone interested, be sure to check out [url]WWW.THEVOICECONNECTION.COM[/url] for some help with rock/metal singing. It has a lot of lessons, interviews, and my favorite, clips of the owner of the site shattering wine goblets with his voice!

Very nice find! :D

I can't find the videos of the guy shattering wine glasses though. What section is it under?

[url]http://www.thevoiceconnection.com/videosonjv.html[/url]

hey. I'm a bass and I'm trying to get A) More range and B)good at mordents and stuff like that. Could somebody link me to some exercises or give me any advice that would be good for this?
Also, how do I do vibrato? I know how it works, I just can't do it, very frustrating.
thanks

hmm. i also have a question, if you dont mind..

i'm 15 years old, about to turn 16 in a month or so, and ive never really had much vocal training or anything of that sort. i have noticed that whenever i goof around and record myself singing, or i'm just listening to myself, it sounds very monotone and only varies by a tad bit. and i jhave trouble with higher notes, because whenever i sing even simple stuff, such as blink 182 (the guy with the high annoying voice if you didnt know), i cant do it. it sounds very plain. when i actually try and sing my [B]best [/B]after a good hour or two of singing, my voice almost sounds irish.
so my questions are
1. how can i improve my range? i cant afford lessons right now.
2. do you have any suggestions on how to sing with more emotion and variation?
3. last one, why does my voice sound irish/british when i actually try my hardest to sing? is it because i may be putting strain on my voice or something?

thankyou very much if you choose to reply

anybody can tell me a good software vocals help??

[QUOTE=sickstring]hey. I'm a bass and I'm trying to get A) More range and B)good at mordents and stuff like that. Could somebody link me to some exercises or give me any advice that would be good for this?
Also, how do I do vibrato? I know how it works, I just can't do it, very frustrating.
thanks[/QUOTE]
Expanding range is a time consuming process.

You need a relaxed larynx to get nice vibrato. Vibrato comes in different forms and mixes. You can do it with your vocal pressure which results in a volume type of vibrato, and/or you can do it with your cords by going up and down in pitch(while staying in key of course). Vibrato comes more naturally if youre singing properly. By properly I mean without tension in the throat/layrnx.
[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

[QUOTE=slimjimrhythm]hmm. i also have a question, if you dont mind..

i'm 15 years old, about to turn 16 in a month or so, and ive never really had much vocal training or anything of that sort. i have noticed that whenever i goof around and record myself singing, or i'm just listening to myself, it sounds very monotone and only varies by a tad bit. and i jhave trouble with higher notes, because whenever i sing even simple stuff, such as blink 182 (the guy with the high annoying voice if you didnt know), i cant do it. it sounds very plain. when i actually try and sing my [B]best [/B]after a good hour or two of singing, my voice almost sounds irish.
so my questions are
1. how can i improve my range? i cant afford lessons right now.
2. do you have any suggestions on how to sing with more emotion and variation?
3. last one, why does my voice sound irish/british when i actually try my hardest to sing? is it because i may be putting strain on my voice or something?

thankyou very much if you choose to reply[/QUOTE]

Your voice probably sounds irish or british if youre tensing up your throat and larynx. Dont squeeze anything.

[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

Hey [I]Merkaba-1,[/I]

[I]Well, [/I]

uhhh.. sorry... anyways... i'm not any good at singing at all and i would like to know how. Also i would like to know how to scream.... Or sing and scream kind of like the guy from The Used does... and i'm not good at that either... at all. If you could maybe help me out or send me an email or something that might help that would be great. My email is [EMAIL="phye@mchsi.com"]phye@mchsi.com[/EMAIL]..... so thanks!

Have you read the [URL="http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911"]Voicehelp hotline ?[/URL]

Yeah, i've tried... i'm not sure why but i have trouble understanding some of it......

what parts? Most of it is about the principals. If you dont know what head and falsetto and all that is then thats easily addressed.