Allright, right here are some n00b questions, but Aes820 I'm sure you can answer them very well. Here's the situation:

My band just spent some money on an analog mixer. It's an Alesis MultiMix 8FX Compact 6-Channel Mixer The Specs Are: [url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/630157/[/url]

100 28-bit digital effects
6 channels
4 mic/line inputs
4 mic preamps with switchable 75Hz high-pass filters
2 stereo/line inputs
3-band EQ per channel

We bought two Kustom KSC15 2-Way 15" PA Speaker Cabinets with 55Hz-20kHz frequency response. 100Wrms/200W peak handling. 8 ohms. 93dB SPL.
[url]http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/600813/[/url]

What my band intends on doing (or intended, you'll find out soon enough) is to run two mics for vocals through it. The band consists of a 30 watt bass amp, a 65 watt guitar amp and drums.

So what we did, was we plugged in the mixer to the speakers, plugged a mic into the mixer and sung, or screamed, rather, our hearts out. And... with everything at its max levels, it... can't even compete with my sisters magic mic kareoke on the T.V. (it was really soft)

So here's the n00b questions
1) What is an analog mixer? And what's the difference between an analog, digital and powered mixer?
2) Why are the speakers so soft?
3) Are we missing an item to make the speakers functional?
4) What do we need to make the speakers functional?
5) What is a monitor?
6) What is a poweramp?
7) What does p.a. stand for?

Thank you, in advance.

Brian

1. i couldn't really give you sufficient detail, but analogue mixers work by good ol' means of pots and sliders, which are veriable resistors, whereas although digital may use this as an interface, but the entire thing is then sent to a computer chip inside the mixer to decide the sound. Powered mixers are mixers with inbuilt power amps.

You guys, to answer 2,3,4,6 have nothing powereiring your PA. You need a power amp. This is a peice of equiptment that makes the volume of what comes out of the mixer. Think of it this way- if the mixer "mixes" together all the different signals, and sends them out, this is still only a very low signal- not loud enough to power some speakers. A power amp takes this sound and makes it louder, without affecting the sound. You really need a power amp.

Monitors are onstage peices of equiptment that let the band hear what is coming out of the main PA speakers, so that the band can hear eachother.

PA stands for Public address, because thats what some PAs are used for- for example, at public speeches. Its just that bands and musicians sue them too.

Hope this helps until aes can give you the full downlow,

Moaner

Moaner has given good info.

1. Anologue mixers mix your signal using tradional anologue based circuitry. Digital mixers convert your signal into digital information (like a computer), mixes it, and then reverts this mixed digital info back into an audio signal.
Powered mixers are like a mixer and a poweramp combined into the one unit.

2 and 3 and 6. You'll need a poweramp. A poweramp is what 'adds the watts' and gets it up to a volume loud enough to power the speakers. Powered mixers have got built in poweramps, and powered speakers have got built in poweramps. Seeing as you've got just a regular mixer and regular speakers. You'll need a poweramp to go in between the two.

4. Your speakers are 100w at 8 ohms each. For them I would reccomend a 2x100 watt at 8 ohm poweramp. Or a 2x200watt at 4 ohm poweramp. Ebay is a good place to look for cheap poweramps.

5. Moaner is correct. A monitor is for the benefit of the band so they can hear them selves on stage. Monitors arn't always necessary and are usually only seen on Larger and more professional PA setups. Quite often, you can get away with playign gigs without the need of monitors.

7. Moaner is correct.

Okay, were just starting out, and i don't really know jack about PA's mics or whatever. So can you kind of explain PA's and why you have to hook amps up to them, and crap in a nutshell? thanks..

also, we need mics, but only 2. I was thinking a Shure becuase i hear they the best. I'm hoping we don't have to spend more than 300-400 on a pa, and speakers and stuff. can you guys give me some hints, or something? thanks.

PAs are used to get your sound out to your audience.
Depending on the size of the venue and how many people are there, your own amps and the sound of the drums may not be enough to fully get out to your audience. This is when you'll need a PA. To run your instruments through and get it loud enough to be heard.
Now, like I said, you dont always need a PA for the instruments. It depends on size the venue. Even some larger venues have their own in-house PAs.

But usually you would at least want to run your vocals through a PA.
And for that, you can get yourself a little 4 input powered mixer for perhaps a couple of hundred bucks. That'll do the job for some small to medium sized gigs.

Read back through this thread. Or look on Musicians friend under 'packaged PA setups' for some options on what other people use.

Thanks for the help. Quick question though: what would be a cheap affordable power amp. Because I'm searching ebay and am finding lots of really cheap power amps, is it too good to be true?

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64451&item=3751030869&rd=1[/url]

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=68247&item=3751135379&rd=1[/url]

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=294&item=5723843772&rd=1[/url]

P.S. my bassist thinks your god aes, sorry moaner, he's not familiar with you, yet :p

P.S.S. there's a lot of cheap DJ power amps, does that make a difference? Can we use a dj amp instead?

You'll basically be looking at a poweramp suitable for your speakers.

Either a 2x100 watt @ 8 ohms.. or a 2x200 watt @ 4 ohms.

None of those three you linked to would be really suitable. The first would be okay but probably underpowered for your needs. The second is too much power. And the third isn't exactally a poweramp.

A DJ poweramp should work. As long as it's rated power output matches those figures I mentioned above.

Something like this would be good:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64452&item=3751153903&rd=1[/url]
As would this:
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23787&item=3752426995&rd=1[/url]

i saw a kustom pa package for like $160. It has a 4 input mixer with 2 speakers. 80W i think it said the mixer was. Good? for playing in garages, and small venues. (forl ike no more than 50 people?)

and for mics...i saw a nady package with a mic, cable, and stand for like $20. any good? what are good mics to look at without spending a butt-load of cash on? thanks again, aes. Your good.

That kustom PA package would be okay for practising and playing gigs in garages and perhaps even house parties.
It may be struggeling to keep up at anything larger, tho.

Behringer is a good brand to look at for decent mics at a decent price.. I think they've got a package of 3 or 4 mics for 80 bucks or so. from memory.
Check out [url]www.behringer.com[/url]

could we add more speakers to it, or would the PA cab need to be more powerful? we only need 2 mics. and were going to run 2 guitars through it as well, as they have smaller amps.

whats the least I should spend to get good sound outside?

depends on how big the gig will be and how many channels you need, as well as your idea of "good"...

[QUOTE=TheBouncingSoul]could we add more speakers to it, or would the PA cab need to be more powerful? we only need 2 mics. and were going to run 2 guitars through it as well, as they have smaller amps.[/QUOTE]
You 'technically' can add on more speakers if you want. But I wouldnt really advise it. You'll have to worry about ohm loadings. And really, 80 watts isn't all that much headroom in the first place.
It may be better in the long run to invest in a PA with more wattage.
[QUOTE=The Spliggity Splot]whats the least I should spend to get good sound outside?[/QUOTE] Outdoors is tricky. Because you usually have to drasitically increase your expectations on wattage. Usually 10 fold, for a benchmark.
If 300 watts would be good for a small indoors gig. Then you'll be looking at 3000 for an outdoors gig.
And for improved efficiency, you'll then have to worry about bi/triamping. Then that involves differnt speaker cabinets, poweramps, crossovers.
It can really add up.

You can do 'backyard' sized gigs with an indoors PA, by all means.
And something like a 600 watter might be good for anything up to 500 people.
But if you are playing a larger gig. With perhaps an audience of 500 people or more. Then you'll want a setup that is a little more professional. And for that. It can get very expensive.

[QUOTE=Aes820]PAs are used to get your sound out to your audience.
Depending on the size of the venue and how many people are there, your own amps and the sound of the drums may not be enough to fully get out to your audience. This is when you'll need a PA. To run your instruments through and get it loud enough to be heard.
Now, like I said, you dont always need a PA for the instruments. It depends on size the venue. Even some larger venues have their own in-house PAs.

But usually you would at least want to run your vocals through a PA.
And for that, you can get yourself a little 4 input powered mixer for perhaps a couple of hundred bucks. That'll do the job for some small to medium sized gigs.

Read back through this thread. Or look on Musicians friend under 'packaged PA setups' for some options on what other people use.[/QUOTE]

wow dude thnx :thumb: , just wut i was gonna ask for. and could u tell me wut a power amp is for

Have a read back through this thread. I've already covered what a poweramp is in an earlier post.

But basically it is what 'adds the watts' to your sound. It amplifies your signal up loud enough so it can be reproduced at high volumes through your speakers.

Alot of equipment has got built in poweramps.
For example, a powered mixer is like a mixer and a poweramp all built in to the one unit.
This makes it much easier to buy and setup, no need to worry about poweramps because it is all built in.

re:
 

I've got a question. Our band is looking to buy a pa system, but we dont have much money (i'm the only one with a job) Would this Audio Choice C100 Portable PA System 100W package that you talk about for 179 get over our drummer. He plays pretty loud. I'm just not aware of how much 100w means on a pa.

Does the 100 watts mean it can only handle 100w or thats how loud it puts out or what? We arent using it for gigs or anything big at all yet. just practicing and fun. Would we need anything else for starting out than what it comes with?
also, if we mic'd a 120w amp, would a 100w pa system handle that. I just dont really understand that yet.
thanks
Hit By A Miss

The 100 watt PA means that the amps rated output is 100 watts. This means little to the overall loudness, however it is used as a benchmark.

100 watts will probably be okay for practising. But it depends on how loud the rest of your band is, including your drummer.
With guitar and bass amps, you can always turn them down to suit. But you cant turn down drums. And if your drummer is naturally a heavy hitter. Then you may need something that is more cabable to keep up.
But, like i said, it depends.

For one band, a 100 watter might be fine for practising and even some house party gigs. But for another band, it may not be enough at all.

But for a band that is just starting out. And not going to get into gigging for a while. I think that 100 watter should be fine.

is it possible to plug a guitar amp head directly into the PA... without any cab

No. Do not run anything other than a speaker load off the speaker output of an amp. Running the outputs of the amp into the input of a PA can quite easilly ruin both amps.
I thought that would be obvious.

You can use a dummy load (such as a power attenuator set to full load) And then run the head into the PA as if you are slaving it.
Although it may just be cheaper to buy a suitable speaker cabinet.

it might be obvious... but i am not too bright...

however, if the amp has a line out, its a slightly different issue.

hey, would this PA system be sutiable for practising and gigging with,
In the band there is:
2 guitarists
1 bassist
1 drummer
1 lead vocals + 2 backing vocals

all amps (2 guitar amps nd 1 bass amp) are 100watt...

also, would we need do buy anything extra to add this system

Note: the system is in australians dollars as i live in australia...

sorry i forgot to add the link...

here it is [url]http://www.venuemusic.com.au/Products.asp?ProdID=3300[/url]

[QUOTE=moaner]however, if the amp has a line out, its a slightly different issue.[/QUOTE]
You'll still need a speaker load on the first amp.

Los3r Kid:

I'm from Australia too. And this youth centre where my bands sometimes play have got an inhouse PA very similar to that one.

It is a very suitable setup. And should be fine for some gigs of perhaps up to a couple of hundred people. More than enough to play in pubs and Youth Centers.

With 100 watt guitar and bass amps. You probably wont need to run them through it. They should be loud enough on their own. If not. Just add on more speakers.

I also understand that that PA can be split for Monitoring. So that may also be an advantage if you ever intend to buy a couple of monitor wedges for it in the future.

cool thnx dude

[QUOTE=Aes820]You'll still need a speaker load on the first amp.[/QUOTE]

really?

<learns something important>

[QUOTE=moaner]however, if the amp has a line out, its a slightly different issue.[/QUOTE]

o yea? it would work if i did it threw the line out?

If the amp has a line out, you can run that into the PA.
But you still must have a speaker attached to the amp head.

o **** ok thanks

would this: [url]http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=3754354484&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW[/url]

work with this: [url]http://www.zzounds.com/item--NDYPFW12[/url]

?

Thats a monitor, not a PA speaker, in the 2nd link.

It would probably work, and be ok for practising.

Beofre you could gig with it you would really need to get yourself a pair of PA speakers.

Trying to cut corners rarely works in the world of music gear.

i know, i meant for practising, and for gigs we would use it to point towards us so that we could hear ourselves

Hey does anyone have any suggestions for a book about Live Sound, stuff like how to get a good sound and what kind of gear is appropriate for certain sized venues. And maybe something that explains triamping and other complicated stuff like that. Thanks

[QUOTE=KissMeIamSh*tFaced]i know, i meant for practising, and for gigs we would use it to point towards us so that we could hear ourselves[/QUOTE]
Yes. That would be good for jammign and practising. One of those speakers should be fine. But two of them would be better.

[QUOTE=BlinkRockr41] Hey does anyone have any suggestions for a book about Live Sound, stuff like how to get a good sound and what kind of gear is appropriate for certain sized venues. And maybe something that explains triamping and other complicated stuff like that. Thanks[/QUOTE]
Read some of the articles at this site:
[url]http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/[/url]
Particularly under the subheadings; Concepts/Definitions, Power amplifiers, Processors, Safety and Sound systems

ok two questions

1. A PA i am considering buying (mixer and power amp) only has one output for monitor, and one for main. Does this mean it will only take one monitor speaker and one main speaker?

2. A 300 watts PA with two outputs... Does this mean that it's 150 watts per output and that we can put two 150 watt speakers, one out of each output and they won't blow up?

1. This is incredibly unlikely, Could you link us this alleged power amp and mixer with only one speaker output? ohmage is the real issue here.

2. 300w is almost certaintly 2x150w, even if you don't get true stereo, you should still get 2 speakers run quite normally out of it.

You can usually run more than one speaker off of one amp, but it's a very tricky process of matching impedience. If you want to use a 4ohm speaker on an 8ohm amp, it will run louder, but it may over-work the amp in the process. The reverse will may be no healthier for your amp, but it will mean less power (with an 8ohm into a 4ohm). Now the tricky part is matching the speakers to your amp. As a quick sheet, two 4ohm speakers in parallel are 2ohms (WARNING: 2 OHMS WILL DAMAGE MOST AMPS) and two 8ohm speakers is 4ohms in parallel. I'd explain the math, but I'm not a math teacher, although I'm sure someone else can explain the formula.

As for the 300W into two outputs, read around the jacks, if you see the word "parallel" in the area, chance are you have one amp, just two places to plug in, so just think of it as the speakers being in parallel.

[url]http://i1.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/9a/0b/c1_1.JPG[/url]

theres a pic


And thanks for your help ey... i really apreciate it


EDIT: Wait i just saw a pic of the back for the first time, and i think i figured evrtyhing out


[url]http://i9.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/97/59/02_1.JPG[/url]

I think those outputs on the front of the amp are for line level connections.
So you can run the monitor output into a pair of headphone and the Main output into additonal amps, or recording equipment, or whatever.

Those two connections on the back of the amp are what you'll connect your speakers up to.

Diesel is spot on correct with his info about ohm loadings. As seeing as that amp of yours cant be used at less than 4 ohm. Running two 8 ohm speakers off both of those outputs will be your best bet. (two 8 ohm speakers in parrallel = 4 ohms total).