[QUOTE=2cool_4school]>yet another amazing post deftoned.

"He must be some kind of ultra_TrOO_MaRkEtInG_CoNsUmA, who tells people what music they should stop "supporting" because of what he says"

>Yes and no. It’s my opinion (were you taught the difference between fact and opinion in school?) that fans of metal are too generous with their support of very untalented bands. I sited a few bands I felt were prime examples of this (again, my opinion) because I think they add nothing to metal. If I wanted to hear music similar to Mortician or Nile (meh) I’d listen to a band that performs similar music, but better. Hopefully you are starting to catch on, otherwise you are a dumb *** (this too, is an opinion.. though it’s beginning to look factual).[/QUOTE]
Nice double post, dumb åss. I understand exactly what you're saying, but I don't think it's true. Many people obviously believe Nile and Mortician are talented enough for them to buy their records, and I'm sure people get onto earlier bands through newer ones. Your principle of your argument is good, but the fact that you're bagging people out for liking bands and almost forcing them on other things is what is pissing me off. This is what I've tried to say the whole time.

[QUOTE=r00ster]The definition to me of alternative metal is obviously that it doesn't fit into any certain metal genre. So firstly I think nu-metal is basicly bands with the heavier drop-tuned sound. Not too much more than maybe it is more commercially acceptable, because it doesn't scare the little kiddies too much. So I would put the old Deftones under alternative metal when they still kept with the normal e tuning. And yes... System of a Down and Mudvayne, nevermind how good they are, still fits the nu-metal genre. Although I also would've liked those two personal favourites to be more accepted, because many people just write them off because they are nu-metal.

Now I saw many people mentioning some metal genre's are hugely influenced by punk of the old days. Could someone please clear this for me, because I don't know why Metalcore bands make use of an influenced punk sound. I mean punk in the old days was repetitive guitaring with repetitive lyrics, but at the end of the day had a meaning behind it all. The songs made use of fast riffs which I don't seem to find with the Metalcore sound. So even if it would lead you to explain to me what punk is, please tell me where you find the relation between punk and metal.

Lastly I think Opeth is more melodic and where would you put bands like Deicide and Dimmu Borgir which I thought was black, but they don't seem to "build any atmosphere".

thx[/QUOTE]
Sorry man, earlier Deftones is more nu-metal than newer Deftones (and this isn't a criticism, I like them alot), although not as polished, the music was more "agressive" and not as artistic as they are now (think White Pony). Deicide are blatantly satanic death, and Dimmu Borgir are 'uNtRoO black', because they have very good production on their album, yet can still make a dreary atmosphere at the same time.

I'd say Alternative Metal bands include: Fantomas, Peach, early Rollins Band (a bit of a funk and blues based - End of Silence; incredible album), Faith No More, Tomahawk, Tool etc..Bands that push the envelope, but aren't really in the vein of prog metal (Symphony X, Dream Theater etc). I would put White Pony forwards era Deftones as Alternative Metal, sorta.

[QUOTE=speedhitler]Anyone who can hack into what they're talking about, raise a hand.[/QUOTE]

Better yet, anyone who gives a flying f[B]u[/B]ck, raise your hand.

Anyway, I'm seriously starting to agree with the whole "mod delete these useless posts" thing. Maybe someone should start a cooresponding argument thread to go with this one. That way people would only post genre definitions in this thread. They could do their bickering and whining in the other. Anyone with me?

I'm not willing to argue with that guy anymore, does anyone else want any genres to be covered?

i heard a band described as "proto-metal-funk-core" once...made me laugh

what kind of metal do you think pantera are?

[QUOTE=deadpuppy]i heard a band described as "proto-metal-funk-core" once...made me laugh[/QUOTE]i heard that "no doubt" are "feminist music to the indie rock persuasion"
i laughed.

[QUOTE=Kaden]2cool_4school: [URL=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion]Click here to find out what you've been missing![/URL]

Final thing I'm gonna say to you: I can listen to what I want, and you can do the same. Stop trying to shove your opinions on everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Kaden has the right idea. 2cool4school should listen to him.

As deftoned said: If you like a band cool...if you don't like them, it doesn't mean they suck, so stop trying to shove your opinions down peoples throats.

I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.
Just a suggestion.

PS. I like "Crossover"

ok i get it there is no difference between music with a guitar in it its all the same thanx for clearing that up.

Very good list, hmm one thing i've noticed though is that numetal bands are almost always judged by guitarwork alone, some drummers are quite good (while not comparable to prog metal and tool or the such are still quite good) and numetals vocals often seem to be levels above many of the other metal genres. There is no way to get around growling and screaming to be just that. Thing of David Draiman of disturbed, he has an amazing voice that i can't think of anything comprable it pure tonal ability, and if SOAD is to be classified as Nu metal, regardless of whether you like them or not Serj's voice is unique and in my opinion better than most of his metal contemporaries. In death and black and other ultra aggresive variants metal the vocals tend to take a back seat to the technical abilties of the band. Opeth is a great example. while the singer when singing clean doesn't have a bad voice but he is most certainly not up to the standard of the rest of the band.

Are you kidding? Serj's voice has range, yeah, but it's hella annoying after a while. With this is mind, I still like SOAD a little bit. In Opeth, Mikael's voice is an incredible technical instrument, and if anything it takes a front seat, with his lead guitar work. Listen to something more. Oh and by the way, Draiman has got nothing on many singers, especially in 'tonal ability' (Mikael, Maynard, Patton, Greg Puciato, Bruce Dickinson, Halford for a few examples).

[QUOTE=ludz]I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.
Just a suggestion.

PS. I like "Crossover"[/QUOTE]

I don't. Crossover is the first two Corrosion of Conformity albums, SOD, Carnivore etc. Ie A mix of hardcore (old hardcore not metalcore bollocks) and thrash.

[QUOTE=Jondur]I don't. Crossover is the first two Corrosion of Conformity albums, SOD, Carnivore etc. Ie A mix of hardcore (old hardcore not metalcore bollocks) and thrash.[/QUOTE]
haha nothing like some SOD; racism with class :lol: haha metalcore bollocks; too true.

[QUOTE=ludz]I would like to suggest that in this forum we ban the term "Nu-Metal" and replace it with a term that makes a little more sense. I know everyone hates that term so we should try and put a stop to it's use if possible.[/QUOTE]
Why? I like the term "mallcore", which we already have. There is NOTHING inherently "crossover" in mallcore.

[QUOTE=g_dejesus]Very good list, hmm one thing i've noticed though is that numetal bands are almost always judged by guitarwork alone, some drummers are quite good (while not comparable to prog metal and tool or the such are still quite good) and numetals vocals often seem to be levels above many of the other metal genres. There is no way to get around growling and screaming to be just that. Thing of David Draiman of disturbed, he has an amazing voice that i can't think of anything comprable it pure tonal ability, and if SOAD is to be classified as Nu metal, regardless of whether you like them or not Serj's voice is unique and in my opinion better than most of his metal contemporaries. In death and black and other ultra aggresive variants metal the vocals tend to take a back seat to the technical abilties of the band. Opeth is a great example. while the singer when singing clean doesn't have a bad voice but he is most certainly not up to the standard of the rest of the band.[/QUOTE]
Try Helloween instead of Opeth.

[QUOTE=deftoned]Are you kidding? Serj's voice has range, yeah, but it's hella annoying after a while. With this is mind, I still like SOAD a little bit. In Opeth, Mikael's voice is an incredible technical instrument, and if anything it takes a front seat, with his lead guitar work. Listen to something more. Oh and by the way, Draiman has got nothing on many singers, especially in 'tonal ability' (Mikael, Maynard, Patton, Greg Puciato, Bruce Dickinson, Halford for a few examples).[/QUOTE]

I'll give you Maynard for tone and Patton for Range, but Dickinson? His voice is irritating as hell. I like Opeth but the vocals never impressed me. I'm unfamiliar with Puciato and Halford though

^^^ He can still have a range even if you think he's irriataing. I'm not much of a Maiden fan, although I'll occasionaly be in the mood for them...anyway, Dickinson's voice is really good.

Good list! The problem for me with all these metal genre...it takes me half an hour to explain to somebody that does'nt know our band, the style of music we play, so I say metal from the 80's or "maiden kind of" to explain heavy metal.But these days when you say metal a lot of people think about something more agressive than what we do.

[QUOTE=g_dejesus]I'll give you Maynard for tone and Patton for Range, but Dickinson? His voice is irritating as hell. I like Opeth but the vocals never impressed me. I'm unfamiliar with Puciato and Halford though[/QUOTE]
Listen to Dåmnation by Opeth if you want incredible clean vocals...Puciato is the fücked up Patton-esque voice behind the Dillinger Escape Plan. Rob Halford is the vocalist for Judas Priest.

I have always considered Tool to be verging into the progressive scene due to their drawn-out, and complex songs and of course, Carey's fantastic ability on the kit.

[QUOTE=ludz]Great List, But:

I think there should be definitions for the "cores". Hardcore, Metalcore etc.

I think, and many people will agree with me, that Nu-Metal should be called something else. I like Crossover. And System of a Down shouldn't be on that list. Not by a long shot. People only call them Nu-Metal because they came out the same time as all those other bands. Except for the down-tuned guitars they don't fit into that group.[/QUOTE]


Crossover works for me. I listen to a lot of different genres, and I also like the whole crossover thing. I agree that SOAD is not really at home in nu metal. And SOAD is just one example. But who cares, it's just a name to describe a sound. If you like it, just listen to it.

I dont think id consider SOAD nu-metal but all in all very good

korn would be in nu metal, right?

[QUOTE=the sock]korn would be in nu metal, right?[/QUOTE]
yes indeed.

[QUOTE=LegionsofMarduk]At the request of the mods, I'm making this thread to get stickied. Seeing as how there are numerous threads asking "What's the difference between genre X and genre Y?", hopefully this will curb some of those. NOTE: This is a very general guideline and not a definitive carved in stone definition. While I may put a band in with one genre, that doesn't mean that they might not fit into more than one sub-genre. I think most people here know my main area of interest is death and black metal so if you disagree with some of my opinions or band lists...fine.

[U]Traditional heavy Metal[/U]
This is kind of a "catch all". There are plenty of sub-genres, but there are lots of bands that don't fit any sub-genre and can't really be called anything except "heavy metal". This can be basically anything from the old school British heavy metal invation to the newer stuff coming out today (not to be confused with nu-metal). This is what most people think of when they hear "Power metal" or such terms. Lots of different styles can be considered traditional heavy metal. Some bands: Iron Maiden, Judas Preist, Iced Earth, Godsmack, Manowar, Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall etc etc etc etc.

[U]Thrash metal[/U]
Thrash really started to come into play in the early 1980's. It was in one way, an answer to the more popular "hair metal" bands of the time. Thrash grew out of older metal such as Black Sabbath combined with chunkier riffs, speed, agrresive vocals, and even some punk. Thrash metal is concentrated more heavily on speed and aggression than it's predacessors. Key bands: Metallica (old stuff), Slayer, Anthrax, Kreator, Sodom, Megadeth, Exodus, Overkill, Nuclear Assault, Sabbat (UK), Darkane etc etc.

[U]Doom Metal[/U]
Where thrash metal concentrates on being fast and aggressive, doom concentrates on being slower, lower and groovier. Many consider Black Sabbath to be the fathers of doom. Typically the music is slow and heavy. Guitars are tuned down and the vocals are usually clean, although growls do slip in on occasion. Also, while death and black metal are generally more aggressive lyrically, doom metal is very meloncholic, depressive and gives an extremly dark vibe. The music can range quite a bit from the extremely slloooooow all clean vocals, to the faster (but still relatively slow) doom/death bands. Check out [url]http://www.doom-metal.com[/url] for some good information and a pretty large list of bands. Key bands: Candlemass, St. Vitus, Unsilence, My Dying Bride, Katatonia, Paradise Lost etc etc.

[U]Death Metal[/U]
Death metal is the opposite end of the spectrum from doom metal. There are a few different schools of death metal. Generally speaking though, the music is fast, aggressive, low. The bass line is usually more pronounced than in other metal sub-genres. The vocal style is trademark to death metal. Usually vocals are growled or grunted. Blast beat drums are very prevalent. The most common misconception is that death metal is all about death and gore and killing and the likes. This is most certainly not the case. While many bands do sing about this type of thing, there are tons of great bands that do not limit themselves to lyrics like that. Lyrics can range to include religion, spirituality, fantasy and beyond. The music can range from the very aggressive and brutal (Aborted, Iniquity, Suffocation) to the more melodic (Ebony Tears, At The Gates) to the very technical (Atheist, Cynic). Key bands: Lykathea Aflame, Mithras, Morbid Angel, Behemoth (older stuff was black metal), Opeth, Immolation, Blood Red Throne, Entombed, Unleashed, Sinners Bleed.

[U]Melodic death metal[/U]
An obvious sub-genre to death metal, it's becoming popular enough that I think it deserves it's own little section. Basically, it incorporates more melody. What it lacks in brutallity, it more than makes up for in melodic grooves. The vocals are typically not as harsh, there may or may not be as many blast beats. Key Bands: At The Gates, In Flames, Ebony Tears, Carcass (Heartwork mainly), Aeternus, Amon Amarth, Kalmah, Norther.

[U]Black Metal[/U]
My own personaly favorite and particular area of expertise. Black metal and death metal are quite closely related. While death is focused on the shear brutallity, black metal is focused more on creating atmosphere. The music is typically higher pitched with less of a bass line. Some bands incorporate the use of keyboards or synthesizers. The production is quite often pretty bad giving it a raw or "trOO necro" quality. Tremelo picking abounds, blast beats are not as prevalent as in death metal but are still there quite often. The vocals are generally high pitched shreiked or screamed. The music can range from the "trOO necro" bands (Darkthrone) to the more melodic (Naglfar) to the very sophisticated orchestral atmospheric (Arcturus). A common misconception about black metal is that all the bands are Satanist and sing about Satan. While many bands are Satanic or anti-christian (note the distinct difference), that is not the case with all black metal bands. Lyrics can range from Satanic to fantasy to witchcraft to just about anything. Many black metal bands are very paganistic in ideology and see the christian church as an intruder in their native lands, leading to the very deep seeded hatred for christianity. Unfortunately, black metal also has a sub-genre known as NSBM. National Socialist Black Metal. While I do listen to quite a few of those bands because I like the music, lyrically many black metal bands are very racist against not only Blacks or Jews, but anyone of non-aryan decent. Key bands: Burzum, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Nargaroth, Emperor, Bathory, Immortal, Beherit, Graveland, Gorgoroth, Moonblood, Samael.

[U]Progressive metal[/U]
A newer genre (relatively speaking), prog metal incorporates the general aggression of heavy metal with the progressive rock sound of the late 70's. Generally speaking, the music has lots of different aspects including key and time changes, unique riffing and such. The level of musicianship is typically extremly high. Dream Theater is by far the most popular band in this genre. The music is generally quite technical. Key Bands: Dream Theater, Queensryche, Spiral Architect, Spastic Ink, Aghora, Gordian Knot, Racer X.

[U]Nu-metal[/U]
Nu-metal is the newest craze to hit mainstream rock radio. Without trying to bash it too much, generally speaking the music structure is very simplistic. Lyrics cover subjects that are close to todays teens (depression, abuse, drugs etc). There are very few guitar solos and the one's that are there are typically very simple and short. Vocals can range from the more metal influenced to a fusion of metal and rap. Guitars are often downtuned or drop tuned. This genre is generally not very popular among listeners of other metal music, but it is the newest craze and therefore very promoted and heavily played on the radio. Bands: Slipknot, Mudvayne, System Of A Down, Papa Roach, P.O.D., Linkin Park, Disturbed.


Again...this is NOT a definitive list. It not by any stretch of the imagination complete. I'm sure if we really wanted to we could come up with a good 20 or so more sub-genres. It is meant as a [i]general[/i] guideline for the noob who's just getting into metal that otherwise would have posted a "What's the difference" thread. Feel free to agree or disagree. With any genre, there are bands that cross over and blur the lines. Your best bet if you're new to any genre of metal is to go out find a list of bands in the genre you're interested in. Download a couple songs from a bunch of different bands and then make your own distinctions.[/QUOTE]
I HAVE TO AGRZEE TOTALL
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^^^ Cool, but did you have to quote the entire post?

Haha thats awesome man, good work. Thats actually very helpfull, as it can get confusing. Thanks for clearin that up! :thumb:

well done, I must say :)

[QUOTE=saturn-ascends]I have always considered Tool to be verging into the progressive scene due to their drawn-out, and complex songs and of course, Carey's fantastic ability on the kit.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Tool definitely push the boundaries, but I wouldn't really call them similar to Dream Theater or Symphony X, as they basically wank alot. Tool has more of an impact on the listener. I like Dream Theater alot, but its just musical wankery. With Tool you get alot of the music; it can inspire you artistically, spiritually, and just improve you look on life. :thumb:

Why are people so obsessed with labeling genres and sub-genres of music? why does a band have to fit into such a neat little package? This is one thing that has always bothered me about the music world.

Cool List But What about Power Groove How different is that to other metal?

nice list! great job there man. i was just wondering - where does black sabbath fit in on that list? i no u have them on there for something, but i'm not sure if that's were they fit in or what. thanks for the great list

Black Sabbath are heavy metal plain and simple. They are impossible to categorise as they were the first real heavy metal band. The closest musical style nowadays is doom.

pretty good list but i disagree with bands such as slipknot and mudvayne bein grouped with linkin park, p.o.d etc... theyre almost completly different

They're not almost completely different. I warrant Mudvayne are a little different, but they still tour with bands like Linkin Park, and their fanbases are very similar. Slipknot fans are almost always into Mudvayne. Slipknot aren't 'that' heavy, but they're the heaviest of nu-metal bands.

i primarily listen to **** like cradle of filth, opeth, cannibal corpse etc but i still really like mudvayne and slipknot. you cant say people who listen to slipknot and mudvayne and other nu-metal like korn etc also listen to crap like papa roach and linkin park, or even those christians from p.o.d. and since when did mudvayne tour with linkin park??

Nu-metal and Old Metal are the two main ones.
Nu-Metal is based entirely around rythem with no riffs e.g. Slipknot.
Old metal is guitar based Metal e.g. Ozzy.

[QUOTE=MAGGOT_951753]i primarily listen to **** like cradle of filth, opeth, cannibal corpse etc but i still really like mudvayne and slipknot. you cant say people who listen to slipknot and mudvayne and other nu-metal like korn etc also listen to crap like papa roach and linkin park, or even those christians from p.o.d. and since when did mudvayne tour with linkin park??[/QUOTE]
No, if you listen to some nu-metal bands that doesn't automatically mean you listen to all of them. This is what I mean when I say people take genres too seriously.

I try to avoid generes.
It's pointless, because people get bent out of shape if they change a bit.
And people judge everyone on what they call their music.
It's retarded.

[QUOTE=MAGGOT_951753]since when did mudvayne tour with linkin park??[/QUOTE]
Summer Sanitarium.