Here's kind of a quick question. How long should a "screaming" session be? It seems like I can only scream for about 20 minutes before I start to lose my voice. I don't fully lose it, I mean I can still talk but it gets to the point where I can't scream anymore, but I'm always able to scream and practice the next day. Maybe it's the type of screams I'm doing? My screams arent very metal, the best way to desribe them is kind of screamo, they're high pitch, almost like a girl screaming but they're also raspy and dark at the same time, I love the way it sounds, the only thing is I have to be singing REALLY loud in order for it to sound the way I want it to. Anytime I try to do it any lower it kind of turns to ****, and also I like to switch from sing/scream kind of thing, I've noticed going quickly from singing to a scream the first note is extremely high and my voice is almost cracked, any techs for this?

Thanks.. kinda longer than I anticipated.

Well If I scream with too much of a push for 20 minutes I start to lose mine too. If i know I'm gonna have alot time in the day for singing I will do some screamy stuff but I wont push all that much. I like to do more true singing early on. But the key is to get the sound you want with less push and effort which takes strengthening. Screaming stamina is an iffy thing. I can only state the usual. Be sure to warm up, and to practice singing. Most people dont want to or cant make the time to do....say an hour of aggressive true voice singing. But it really builds stamina for the apparatti. If youre doing mostly screaming for 20 minutes then you really need to make sure you warm up and warm down. You could see if, over time, you get more longevity by just continued screaming, but I would say try to not push so much, and natural singing really helps you with this because it helps you keep the cords vibrating at higher push, which means you can later get the same sounds with less work. In any case your screams should come from as much of a normal singing approach as possible. This is what helps with overall tone and ease of the sound.

With cracking it could be a combination of a few things. If it only seems to happen later on in the set then it may be from your cords being a bit swollen and fatigued which makes them harder to change shape and thickness. And it can also bring in a break into an unwanted whistle note due to the cords being swollen and air shooting through this swollen area....you dont want that. Theres not really a technique other than working around this area where you break at. It could be right at one of your register bridges which makes it harder. Practice the area in aggresive singing voice instead of screaming and you can help figure out which voice you need to use. Theres not really a magic pill for this. Screaming is really taxing on the cords and singing is the best and safest way to strengthen them. See what happens.

Merkaba, since you seem to be the voice guru around here I will direct this question to you.

I have recently decided to sing some of the music I have been writing with a friend of mine. I don't know if you have ever heard of Mark Lanegan, but I have a lower voice-type like his and when I hear my music in my head I hear a voice similar to his. If you have heard him, I was wondering if you could give me any tips on pushing my voice in that direction. Perhaps on singing melody lines in that style. Also, what are some specific exercises I can do to increase my range a bit. I start cracking when I get too high.

Thank you for your time and I apologize if you have already covered something like this.

Could you post a sample of Mark? I cant recall his voice right off hand. I'm off to work but I'll try to reply more when I get home...in twelve hours!

ick.


As far as working on range its about 50% technique. Alot of people have notes waiting on them just around the corner but they dont know it because they have been equating raising the pitch with raising the throat. But the vocal folds are horizontal...so you dont need or want the the laryx to rise up because this is just creating unneeded tension and blocks airflow. In my voicehelp hotline I talk about this alot. It helped me a ton when I actually first was reminded of this. I just pictured my cords and tried to feel what muscles should do in order to pull horizontally instead of some other way.

But once you get technique down then I would say the other 50% is that you have to actually work the area just like any other area you want to grow. What youre actually wanting is the ability for your cords to remain closed, thick enough to vibrate properly and strong enough to stay that way while being stretched for pitch, while strengthing the muscles that are responsible for this stretching. kinda like a guitar string. You can tune the high e to a G but it will not hold up for long unless you thicken it....and you can tune it down to c but it just starts to lose its clarity and resonance. So you want to be able to do both and thats the advantage of being animate. The cords are almost like a stringed/wind instrument.

I would say to work on finding your registers first and getting to know where you break and if/when you can stay in head voice. Being able to get into a good head voice really helps because it helps you to get the feeling of releasing tension in the throat area. More thorough stuff is in here....[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

sup thread

i'm a begginner to singing (well i sing when i play guitar but don't we all)

what i want to know is

someone sayed my voice was ok and i'd like to develop it

any websites/tips/info would be greatly appericated

i think this may help... if u havent figured it out
 

ok this is what i did to tell u the truth i dont kno if it helped but.. just listen... ok first of all u gotta work on ur falsetto voice which is like ur really high pitched voice... like u kno that voice when ur on helium... well its like that, see what i did was i kept singin in that voice, like well screamin day after day just drinkin tons of water... and i powered it up alot... and i mean u cant just slack of on it... u gotta push urself.. and then like start raising ur voice like if u were arguin with some1 like u gotta like let it out just everythin... like all u got... just like if u were havin a tempertantrum lol... its really weird but thats how i did it... like i worked on the falsetto voice adn then i startin workin on raising my normal voice higher and higher until it finally broke loose... adn now i can scream like zao... underoath as i lay dyin throwdown...i cant really explain it... but just keep drinkin water while workin on the falsetto and it has to be warm water... so i dont kno try it like that... see what happens it worked for me...

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Could you post a sample of Mark? I cant recall his voice right off hand. I'm off to work but I'll try to reply more when I get home...in twelve hours!

ick.


As far as working on range its about 50% technique. Alot of people have notes waiting on them just around the corner but they dont know it because they have been equating raising the pitch with raising the throat. But the vocal folds are horizontal...so you dont need or want the the laryx to rise up because this is just creating unneeded tension and blocks airflow. In my voicehelp hotline I talk about this alot. It helped me a ton when I actually first was reminded of this. I just pictured my cords and tried to feel what muscles should do in order to pull horizontally instead of some other way.

But once you get technique down then I would say the other 50% is that you have to actually work the area just like any other area you want to grow. What youre actually wanting is the ability for your cords to remain closed, thick enough to vibrate properly and strong enough to stay that way while being stretched for pitch, while strengthing the muscles that are responsible for this stretching. kinda like a guitar string. You can tune the high e to a G but it will not hold up for long unless you thicken it....and you can tune it down to c but it just starts to lose its clarity and resonance. So you want to be able to do both and thats the advantage of being animate. The cords are almost like a stringed/wind instrument.

I would say to work on finding your registers first and getting to know where you break and if/when you can stay in head voice. Being able to get into a good head voice really helps because it helps you to get the feeling of releasing tension in the throat area. More thorough stuff is in here....[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url][/QUOTE]

Thanks man.

I will try to get some Mark up as soon as I am able to. I recommend him to anyone.

Mark is indeed a great singer :)

Hey Merkaba, about that larynx not moving up thing.. What do I do if I just can't stop it from moving up? Do I just keep doing the excersizes, and keep trying, untill it finally clicks?
I guess I have a really big relaxation problem, always tensing up and singing from the throat

Merkaba, possibly a Tool fan I am guessing. I am just wondering if you could give me any tips on how to do the death metal growl, like Opeth? Thanks, any tips would be helpful.

[QUOTE=appreciate_it]Hey, im the singer in my band, and my drummer is really into Hardcore/emo. He always wants to do Rise against songs etc. Im really Iron Maiden/metallica/classical singer but you know, i try and do the best i can. i did "No Reason" by sum41 which i think is the hardest song i've ever sung, but i find things like where eagles dare, (maiden) easier which some people say is harder!?!? anyway, im trying to learn how to sing like Tim McIlrath (Rise Against) or that powerful growly voice, any pointers would be SO greatly appreciated.
Thanks.[/QUOTE]

i dont think rise against is either hardcore nor emo...

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]Mark is indeed a great singer :)

Hey Merkaba, about that larynx not moving up thing.. What do I do if I just can't stop it from moving up? Do I just keep doing the excersizes, and keep trying, untill it finally clicks?
I guess I have a really big relaxation problem, always tensing up and singing from the throat[/QUOTE]
It will move up a tad, but you really dont want it slamming up like when you swallow. But practice doing glisses in full voice up through head voice( which is still full voice) and trying to keep the larynx down. A key for me was to remember that cords are being pulled horizontally, and you should maybe try to feel this a bit. If you always let the throat rise you will kinda feel that your cords are going up as well. But try to feel it going back and maybe a bit up, like twenty degrees if you were picturing it. But it just feels that way because as you go up in pitch and reach head voice the resonance moves from the chest up to your throat and head and kinda gives the impression that the cords are going up a bit. And practice singing lightly in full voice. Its harder to keep relaxed in falsetto.

[QUOTE=SickoKid]Merkaba, possibly a Tool fan I am guessing. I am just wondering if you could give me any tips on how to do the death metal growl, like Opeth? Thanks, any tips would be helpful.[/QUOTE]

Again....anything scream or growl you want to work on I say start with normal singing first in order to get the muscles memory intact. That way you can automatically do more technical things that would otherwise get jumbled together with all kinds of other things that youre trying. If youre doing low growls you have to keep the chin loose and be sure it can drop if you need it to, which you should with low notes. For mid gutteral screams/growls its just like everything else. You have to be able to keep good singing shape while using the false cords to get the rasp. The same area you use to do the Annnnk sound for a wrong answer buzzer. Or as Kristina says, try to gargle the note....but uh, dont tilt your head back like a gargle of course.

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]Mark is indeed a great singer :)

Hey Merkaba, about that larynx not moving up thing.. What do I do if I just can't stop it from moving up? Do I just keep doing the excersizes, and keep trying, untill it finally clicks?
I guess I have a really big relaxation problem, always tensing up and singing from the throat[/QUOTE]

Okay, take a depth breath into your diaphram, fill it up. Tense your stomach muscles and suck your arse in. When you sing centre yourself somewhere in your diaphram and as you sing higher think lower. Open your mouth right up iff you cant fight four fingers in their your mouth isn't wide enough. The wider your mouth, the more room for your vocal chords to stretch horizontally. And think down in your diaphram, sing from your diaphram.

Its quite common for excessive mouth movement to increase tension in the throat...this is why you use the blank face non movement exercises to help isolate the cords from the throat and mouth. If youre squeezing up the larynxe when youre trying all of this it will not matter what your do. So be sure youre not squeezing anything if you are opening up your mouth alot. Telling someone who's having trouble with vocals to tense the stomach and suck in the but is really not gonna do anything except tense the person up more.

[QUOTE=BetweenTheEchoes][url]http://www.soundclick.com/vocalsandstuff[/url]

Those are my screams. I sing for a metal band. Merkaba or anyone else with experience on this I would like some tips on what I'm doing right/wrong. Also, I feel no pain in the throat while doing this, but I do have a hard time doing it consistently without running out of breath. Any good exercises?[/QUOTE]

I totally envy you, dude. :angry:

Yeah.. I am a singer, with a strong voice and good range (especially the highs), but my bassist has been doing all of the growling for my band. He sucks, so I really need to learn how to do it to replace him. I've been reading this thread, and mostly you guys just say "sing really hard". Well for me at least this doesn't equate to a scream at all, just loud singing. Not to sound like a dick, but could someone sort of clarify in layman's terms?

I want to learn to sing as high as Circa Survive/ Saosins singer. Anyway I can increase my range and get better falsetto?

[QUOTE=toaster135]Yeah.. I am a singer, with a strong voice and good range (especially the highs), but my bassist has been doing all of the growling for my band. He sucks, so I really need to learn how to do it to replace him. I've been reading this thread, and mostly you guys just say "sing really hard". Well for me at least this doesn't equate to a scream at all, just loud singing. Not to sound like a dick, but could someone sort of clarify in layman's terms?[/QUOTE]

I don't think that we've been saying "sing really hard". Pushing your cords more then you need too is going to damage your voice, and anyone who's simply said "just let it go" has quickly been put in their place. I'm not that much of a growler (just don't understand it yet, let alone know the sound I'm supposed to be getting) so I can't really help you at the moment.

But, just remember that simply pushing hard and giving 100% of everything you've got - will NOT give you a healthy, proper growl. Have a wait around for others to give you some tips, but just know that:

Technique>Power/Push

You will get volume from technique, so when you read people saying "just shout loudly", ignore them. Good Luck with it all though :thumb:

Sup' Merk, got a question about Isolating those da[I]m[/I]n cords. :evil:

When I finally decided to read your articles (as opposed to skimming through the content), I finally got a little grip on Isolation. My voice became stronger, and started sounding better then I've ever heard it. So, first off, thanks for pointing all that out. :thumb:

Question is though, I remember you mentioning somewhere that controlling and keeping the Adams Apple down is another factor of Isolation. I tried going through my range (singing range, not screaming) and working the throat area to keep it down. But, as I get into that head section, it'll start moving up. After tucking my chin down, the only difference it made was cutting off range. I've done the 'emotionless' isolation excersises, but it still slowly tucks in under my chin as I hit my higher notes.

How important is it, whats the deal with it? I just want to know why it would affect your voice. The only reason I could guess is that it puts tension in the throat area, which would make sense. But, how would you go about controlling the Adams Apple?

Thankyou :D

[QUOTE=SoleFactionBassist]Okay, take a depth breath into your diaphram, fill it up. Tense your stomach muscles and suck your arse in. When you sing centre yourself somewhere in your diaphram and as you sing higher think lower. Open your mouth right up iff you cant fight four fingers in their your mouth isn't wide enough. The wider your mouth, the more room for your vocal chords to stretch horizontally. And think down in your diaphram, sing from your diaphram.[/QUOTE]

:amaze:

...

I really doubt thats going to be off any help. If he's trying to relax his body while hitting notes, how would suggesting to "suck his arse in" be helpful? Don't know, I might be wrong.

Oh man, now you've made me all concious of my a[I]s[/I]s when singing. Gah! :evil:

[QUOTE=Rushki Smushki]Sup' Merk, got a question about Isolating those da[I]m[/I]n cords. :evil:

When I finally decided to read your articles (as opposed to skimming through the content), I finally got a little grip on Isolation. My voice became stronger, and started sounding better then I've ever heard it. So, first off, thanks for pointing all that out. :thumb:

Question is though, I remember you mentioning somewhere that controlling and keeping the Adams Apple down is another factor of Isolation. I tried going through my range (singing range, not screaming) and working the throat area to keep it down. But, as I get into that head section, it'll start moving up. After tucking my chin down, the only difference it made was cutting off range. I've done the 'emotionless' isolation excersises, but it still slowly tucks in under my chin as I hit my higher notes.

How important is it, whats the deal with it? I just want to know why it would affect your voice. The only reason I could guess is that it puts tension in the throat area, which would make sense. But, how would you go about controlling the Adams Apple?

Thankyou :D[/QUOTE]
Just keep practicing. Its the feel you want. The feel that youre not clamping anything up. The apple will rise a slight bit. After a while you will realize what it is to sing with a high larynx because your stamina will dwindle. That is if youre singing alot. The flip side is that you dont want to be trying to hold it down...you just want to be able to forget about it. But I would say practice glisses and try to feel the throat opening a bit as you go up in range....like you were trying to stuff a dam football down it.

Gotta get to work.....see ya

Thanks merkaba. your doing a real service here.

Okay from the other thread...

"
I wanna scream like the lead singer of Avenged Sevenfold.What category does that fall under?How do i do it?"

[QUOTE=Merkaba-1]Just keep practicing. Its the feel you want. The feel that youre not clamping anything up. The apple will rise a slight bit. After a while you will realize what it is to sing with a high larynx because your stamina will dwindle. That is if youre singing alot. The flip side is that you dont want to be trying to hold it down...you just want to be able to forget about it. But I would say practice glisses and try to feel the throat opening a bit as you go up in range....like you were trying to stuff a dam football down it.

Gotta get to work.....see ya[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I see what you're saying. When I get up to my *almost* highest notes, I can feel the throat being open (a little of a tad open). I'm guessing that I'm isolating proplerly because its isn't draining my stamina, or causing pain...but giving me more control of the note.

Guess its workin' out, thanks for all the help. :thumb:

[QUOTE=JukeBoxHero]Thanks merkaba. your doing a real service here.

Okay from the other thread...

"
I wanna scream like the lead singer of Avenged Sevenfold.What category does that fall under?How do i do it?"[/QUOTE]
??? There arent any categories of screams. Thats some nonsense that last, obviously uneducated threadstarter came up with, with all of his dangerous and rediculous personal emotional methods to gain them.

I dont know avenged right off the bat. But its either raspy....which most ideas of scream are....or its just a really high note maybe with a bit of slight straining rasp. The rasp is gained only one way and thats by pushing extra air up past the cords and against the area above them....namely the false cords...the same area you use if you were barking or growling like a dog or maing the "annnnk" wrong answer buzzer sound. But using this area while holding a note is a bit different and you'll need to practice it if you cant do it "naturally". After that its just a matter of safely building strength and flexibility so you can add more tone or less, and shape the throat and get various sounding styles while staying in form. Again...grab a drink and a snack and read up if you havent. ---> [url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911[/url]

I'm a complete nublet at this singing phenomena:

I like to sing, at times, very nassaly (Oasis, Beatles, Thom Yorkish), but after reading about Gallagher of Oasis, how can I prevent damage to my cords and larynax and preserve that nassale sound (if possible)?

[QUOTE=Tsuruka]I'm a complete nublet at this singing phenomena:

I like to sing, at times, very nassaly (Oasis, Beatles, Thom Yorkish), but after reading about Gallagher of Oasis, how can I prevent damage to my cords and larynax and preserve that nassale sound (if possible)?[/QUOTE]

just try opening up your throat more, like merkaba said. if you can't change it, it's OK to have a nasal sound. that just might be how your voice sounds. the singer from avenged sevenfold has a nasal sound ever since he had surgery and he has great technique. and his voice kicks a[b][i][/b][/i]ss.

[QUOTE=S P A C E M A N]just try opening up your throat more, like merkaba said. if you can't change it, it's OK to have a nasal sound. that just might be how your voice sounds. the singer from avenged sevenfold has a nasal sound ever since he had surgery and he has great technique. and his voice kicks a[b][i][/b][/i]ss.[/QUOTE]

Thanks yee.

Also, I've been noticing I've been coughing up a lot more mucus than usual (also, I've been sick for a bit). Could my singing have anything to do with that?

[QUOTE=Tsuruka]Thanks yee.

Also, I've been noticing I've been coughing up a lot more mucus than usual (also, I've been sick for a bit). Could my singing have anything to do with that?[/QUOTE]


i don't know if singing is causing it, but mucus does mean that something is wrong. just don't sing when you're sick.

You've been sick. Nothing to worry about. Drink alot of water, stay hydrated, and never push more then you need to - Mucus makes you think you have too push harder because its blocking cord vibration. You have to realise when this is happening.

Normally, after eating food, the mucus thats generated to absorb...um...stuff, hangs around for a few hours. Your voice will become dull and lose its brightness. Again, drinking water tends to solve this problem at times - Just don't drown yourself if it isn't working out. :thumb:

actually, it is something to worry about. singing when you're sick may just make it worse and cause more problems in the long run.

If you've been sick its still ok to sing but you should warm up more. And be a little more careful. UNLESS you have laryngitis. Sometimes you'll have laryngitis with an upper respiratory infection in general. So if youre not sure you dont have larry then dont sing until afterwards. If your throat hurts any then you know its time to zip it up. If you're sick and your speaking voice isnt affected(the morning is ok because most people have more mucus in the morning) and if there's no pain, then sing. But again....I'm not a doctor.