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[QUOTE=Cain]
EDIT: Astoroth's sigil is one of the few I've seen that actually look like the Sigil of Baphomet, Bartender's avatar. The Baphomet is not Lucifer's actual sigil but for some reason it is most commonly associated with alternative magic and Satanism in much the same way the six-pointed Star of David is also associated with Solomon.[/QUOTE]

The Baphomet was actually a holy symbol associated with the Knights Templar. When the corrupt King Philip the III (I think) conspired with the iniquitine Pope Clement something (again I think), they spread the rumour it was a foul symbol, to further discredit the order...

The symbol's association with the Peacock Angel is the work of stupid goth emo fags.
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[i]From my friend's textbook[/i]

[b]Baphomet:The Pentagram Connection[/b]

As we examined on another page, it was the nineteenth century Occultist, Eliphas Lévi who is falsely credited for first differentiated between the good and evil aspects of the five-pointed star or pentagram. Lévi envisioned two points down, as being magical in a good way, while one point down was indicative of the opposite magical reaction. Whether inverted or straight up, today's society views and perhaps wrongly so the pentagram as a symbol of evil. Let's look at some of the history of the pentagram to understand where along the way it changed from an inherently good thing to a perception of wrong.

[b]The Pentagram: Origins And Historical Usage[/b]

The pentagram at left is the traditional pentagram with the five points of the star, one up two down enclosed inside a circle. This style of pentagram has existed for countless thousands of years, first dating back to around 3500 BC where it was used in Ancient Mesopotamia, at least latterly, by rulers as a symbol indicating that their power breadth the four corners of the known world.

The early Greeks called the pentagram the Pentalpha. Pent for the number five and Alpha being the first letter of the Greek alphabet. The Pythagoreans considered its geometric qualities to be symbolic, both mathematically and metaphysically, of absolute perfection.

To the Hebrews the five points of the pentagram were tied to the Pentateuch which is the first five books of the bible and represented as a whole the concept of truth. Although occasionally referred to as the Seal of Solomon, it is important to note that this is incorrect and that the Star of David or double triangle is the true Seal of Solomon.

[b]The Pentagram As A Christian Symbol[/b]

Perhaps most curious is the pentagram as it relates to early Christianity. Up until medieval times, the five points of the pentagram represented the five wounds of Christ on the Cross. During these times the pentagram, so criticized by modern Fundamentalist Christians, carried no evil implications at all and in fact, in a lesser way than the cross, was symbolic of the Savior.

Constantine the Roman Emperor who converted to Christianity, and whose mother Helena discovered the religious relic known as the True Cross, chose to use the pentagram on his seal and amulet. In the ensuing church that grew from Constantine's takeover of the Roman Empire, the cross became the chosen symbol of Christianity rather than the pentagram. Perhaps ironic, that by a mere choice of iconography, the pentagram could have been hanging around the necks of millions of Christians worldwide.

[b]The Pentagram As A Symbol Of Evil[/b]

Beginning with the destruction of the Knights Templar by the combined treachery of King Philip IV and Pope Clement V, the inquisition of the church moved into full swing starting with the Templars, who fell partly under accusations of worshipping an idol called Baphomet. It is highly unlikely that the Baphomet of the Templars, if it existed at all, resembled anything like Lévi's Baphomet, which we examined on another page.

Still the order was squashed by torture, death and Papal dissolution by 1314. Like the torture of the Albigensian Cathari, and the aforementioned Templar order, the church began to destroy all that opposed the rule of the Holy See. Alleged heretics, Pagans witches all met with the same fate of conversion or death.

It was at this time that the horned gods still worshipped by the peasants and folk peoples of Europe, such as Pan became the accepted imagery for the Devil by the Christian Church. Therefore in the eyes of the church if the peasants worshipped false, evil gods, then the Pentagram symbol, used by those people as a symbol of security, must therefore be evil as well.

[b]The Nineteenth Century And The Birth Of The Baphomet Sigil[/b]

Eliphas Lévi, was the first to adapt the inverted pentagram shown right as symbolic of evil. In the Middle Ages the upright pentagram represented summer, while the inverted or points down pentagram was a representation of winter. It is rumored that Lévi formed two illustrations of the pentagram. The first, his good orientation, featured the five points of a man within the points of the Pentagram. This is called the microcosmic man and represents the four elements, earth, wind, fire and water represented as the man's limbs with his head representing the spirit.

Next to the Microcosmic Man, he is alleged to have drawn the inverted pentagram as the goat's head or Baphomet. In so doing, he formed for the first time, a differentiation between good and evil symbolized by the pentagram.

The Baphomet sigil or simply Baphomet has become the official symbol of The Church Of Satan, which was started by Anton Szandor La Vey [b][La Vey was a dumbarse - Ed.][/b] in 1966. Satanists and pseudo-Satanists have used this sigil all over the world. The illustration below shows the two sketches attributed to Lévi. While this illustration has been connected to Lévi, our research shows the earliest use of this image was in "A Pictorial History of Magic and the Supernatural" by Maurice Bessy originally published in French in 1961 and making its first English translation in 1964, many years after the death of Lévi.

[b]Conclusions And Observations[/b]

Napoleon Bonaparte once said, "What is history, but a fable agreed upon?" As I've shown the Pentagram has devolved from a one-time symbol of faith and knowledge to today being representative of all that is evil. We have also seen how the artwork of one man, Eliphas Lévi became associated with the evil aspect of the pentagram and an accepted image of the Christian Devil through his androgynous illustration of the Baphomet.

It is highly unlikely that the Templar Knights worshipped a demonic entity in the image of the goat, but due to the chain of events shown in these pages, it has come to be an accepted belief or to quote Napoleon, "a fable agreed upon" by many Fundamentalist Christians.

In 8th grade I attempted to read Dante's Inferno, but I couldn't really understand what I was reading, I only read maybe the first 20 pages something about a lion or something blocking this dude's pathway over a hill. I think I'm going to try and read it again soon. I haven't read in a while.

Rather like the pagan gods I mentioned being relegated to mere demons in Hell as a way to explain away the existance of those religions, and thus the idea that pagan religions are synonymous with Satanism, even though there's no relation.

Very interesting Jason, and I love the Napolean quote especially. He balances wisdom with humor and insolence.

"Give me enough medals and I'll win you any war."

:)

Well, if you have ever read some of Eddings fantasy novels, he has a rather clever way of dealing with multiple religions. Basically, all the gods exist, and are aware of each other, and it is mankind's perversions that give rise to the need to have only one kind of God.

I mean, some people are really stupid. Christians and Muslims worship the same God, for crying out loud.

Lucas: We should make a mythology thread. I've always been interested in the mythologies of various cultures, myself. I've read a lot of the classic fiction works, such as Homer's Illiad and Odyssey, Grendel, and The Bible.

So it looks like a hurricane is gonna hit my area. If the hurricane keeps going in the same path, I have to evacuate Saturday morning. Oh Joy!

[QUOTE=Gilmour]So it looks like a hurricane is gonna hit my area. If the hurricane keeps going in the same path, I have to evacuate Saturday morning. Oh Joy![/QUOTE]

That sucks man, back when California had those giant wild fires I almost had to evacuate. The sky was so black. It was scary.

[QUOTE=Gilmour]So it looks like a hurricane is gonna hit my area. If the hurricane keeps going in the same path, I have to evacuate Saturday morning. Oh Joy![/QUOTE]

Pfft... my town gets cyclones every year, most of the time they die down when they come within thirty kms of the coastline.

[QUOTE=HeavyRiva]Pfft... my town gets cyclones every year, most of the time they die down when they come within thirty kms of the coastline.[/QUOTE]

Meh, my parents are paranoid + we will all kill each other if we go a few days without electricity.

Oh well, at least I get some time off (Too bad I dont get paid for any of it :upset: )

[QUOTE=HeavyRiva]Well, if you have ever read some of Eddings fantasy novels, he has a rather clever way of dealing with multiple religions. Basically, all the gods exist, and are aware of each other, and it is mankind's perversions that give rise to the need to have only one kind of God.

I mean, some people are really stupid. Christians and Muslims worship the same God, for crying out loud.

Lucas: We should make a mythology thread. I've always been interested in the mythologies of various cultures, myself. I've read a lot of the classic fiction works, such as Homer's Illiad and Odyssey, Grendel, and The Bible.[/QUOTE]

Grendel is BRILLIANT. Best depiction of a dragon I've ever seen. And my tastes run towards folklore. The British "Black Dog" tales that inspired Hound of the Baskervilles are my favorites.

Bedtime. Work tomorrow. Good night.

Sorry for interrupting any conversation that's going on, but I want to fake-gloat about baseball.

Two-for-two with an RBI, only one of the game. Final score: 1-0.

It was a real barnburner, or whatever the catchphrase is. Heh.

I've been really trying to focus on taking the ball opposite way. First at bat, single to right-center. Third at bat, double to right center to score the runner. :cool:

I should probably clarify that I bat right-handed, heh.

And I caught the whole game. Pitcher threw a two-hitter, and rarely shook me off. It was great.

And it doesn't seem like much, but I needed a game like this, so hopefully the season will finish alright.

/end fake-arrogant gloating

Anyway. Hello, all.

Hi guys. CCR was fun. What's going on in here?

Hey, who knows what banned user* I am.

*loser, you should see the post I made

[QUOTE=the thing that should never be]123. A mythology thread would be most excellent.[/QUOTE]

I know a bit about mythology, mostly ROman and Norse. I would definitley post in something like that

[QUOTE=Dark_Horse_335]I know a bit about mythology, mostly ROman and Norse. I would definitley post in something like that[/QUOTE]
Yeah me too. Its a subject that interests me.

The book Grendel, does it have anything to do with the Grendel in Beowulf?

[QUOTE=Lucas]Too bad Ray is gone. He has the perfect opportunity to **** ALL over zerokewl/Trilemma/Non Sequitur with this perfect moron of a thread. [/QUOTE]

What the hell is he trying to prove? He's so stupid he makes my head hurt. How the hell does this guy become a mod? I'm mystified.

[QUOTE=Hrothgar]The book Grendel, does it have anything to do with the Grendel in Beowulf?[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure it's the same Grendel.

In addition to taking a class on it this past year, I've always been interested in Greek mythology. Like a lot. A myth thread would be cool.

Should I make it here, or Politics? I'm thinking of writing a short article about the Baphomet, or something, which could tie it into R&M, what with all the folk metal, etc, we have. What do you guys think?

All I know is that I felt like a mental midget after reading that...

[QUOTE=Illmatic]What the hell is he trying to prove? He's so stupid he makes my head hurt. How the hell does this guy become a mod? I'm mystified.[/QUOTE]

I am as well. I hardly ever see him mod anyways, just argue with everyone.

In answer to all questions about why im on mx, i got back from the pub, i wasn't getting drunk here, and i went on my computer to talk to my girlfriend, and this thread is my homepage. So i posted first, and the post translates into :

'Man, im so happy. We went into a pub and Trivium were playing, so we stayed and put Avenged Sevenfold and Iron Maiden on.'

I take it you guys are talking about Zerokewl? And yes, he is a dumbass. Chill out, he uses his modding abilities to prove a point in the pit, so what?

/You guys are just jealous that i can get hammered and you can't, you Americans with your dumb drinking laws.

[QUOTE=HeavyRiva]Should I make it here, or Politics? I'm thinking of writing a short article about the Baphomet, or something, which could tie it into R&M, what with all the folk metal, etc, we have. What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]
I would make it in politics if I was you :thumb:

[QUOTE=Joe]/You guys are just jealous that i can get hammered and you can't, you Americans with your dumb drinking laws.[/QUOTE]

:lol:

don't delude yourself, pal. We may not be able to go to bars but we can drink practically whenever we want.

Not to mention I can get drinks in pubs, clubs and bottle shops here in Australia... :)

[QUOTE=Illmatic]:lol:

don't delude yourself, pal. We may not be able to go to bars but we can drink practically whenever we want.[/QUOTE]

Ahh, but bars!!!! No bars for you young man. :upset:

But yah, i promise not to come on here after being drunk. My typing was made worse by several of my friends falling onto/over me.

the myth thread would be very interesting and the knights templar association is correct to my knowlege, the baphomet was an early symbol of christianity, so instead of the cross, the christian faith could just as easily have had the baphomet as it's symbol
so I re-edit my post back to baphomet because Jason said I was originally correct-

Again- Josh= teh fayle

[QUOTE=Lord Abortion]the myth thread would be very interesting and the knights templar association is correct to my knowlege, the [B]baphomet[/B] was an early symbol of christianity, so instead of the cross, the christian faith could just as easily have had the [B]baphomet[/B] as it's symbol[/QUOTE]
i think you mean pentagram not baphomet, as the baphomet is the satanic one. but yeh, i see what you're getting at.

Beowulf / Grendel is one of the most awesome stories ever, Homer's Iliad and Odessey are great as well, i have a version that was translated in the '30s.

EDIT: dammit Ollie, you edited.

[QUOTE=sack-man]i think you mean pentagram not baphomet, as the baphomet is the satanic one. but yeh, i see what you're getting at.

Beowulf / Grendel is one of the most awesome stories ever, Homer's Iliad and Odessey are great as well, i have a version that was translated in the '30s.

EDIT: dammit Ollie, you edited.[/QUOTE]
I have Beowulf somewhere, I haven't read it for ages though- I got paradise lost, which is excellent...

and also- Josh= fayles

[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362635[/url]

Okay guys, here is the mythology thread.

[QUOTE=sack-man]i think you mean pentagram not baphomet, as the baphomet is the satanic one. but yeh, i see what you're getting at.

Beowulf / Grendel is one of the most awesome stories ever, Homer's Iliad and Odessey are great as well, i have a version that was translated in the '30s.

EDIT: dammit Ollie, you edited.[/QUOTE]

Actually, Ollie was in the right.

bleh, i just prepacked all of my stuff for when i move back home to the states in two weeks, and im going to need to send like 4 or 5 more packages home to ensure i get everything there, and the last package i sent cost me €50 for shipping, and it was rather light, most of the stuff i have to send now are books :upset:

So much for me trying to get to switzerland before i leave, i wont be able to afford it

[QUOTE=HeavyRiva][url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362635[/url]

Okay guys, here is the mythology thread.

Actually, Ollie was in the right.[/QUOTE]
/is confused.
in your long post, you said that the baphomet was the satanic symbol, the inverted pentagram, while the regular pentagram was a symbol of christianity, which means that christians wouldn't use a baphomet as their symbol, doesn't it?

Riva, I couldn't find your story. Can you link it to me?

[QUOTE=sack-man]/is confused.
in your long post, you said that the baphomet was the satanic symbol, the inverted pentagram, while the regular pentagram was a symbol of christianity, which means that christians wouldn't use a baphomet as their symbol, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]
No because they would have a normal pentagram which isn't a baphomet

[QUOTE=Steerpike]Riva, I couldn't find your story. Can you link it
to me?[/QUOTE]
Seeing that you are a ninja pirate can I be a cyber pirate?

[QUOTE=Steerpike]Riva, I couldn't find your story. Can you link it to me?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8575704&postcount=19847[/url]

Hopefully that's what he means.

[QUOTE=Illmatic]
Also, I'm still mystified as to why we have the 2008 Olympics in ****ing China. WTF?[/QUOTE]

I'm actually looking forward to that. Should be hilarious.

[QUOTE=Bartender][url]http://www.musicianforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8575704&postcount=19847[/url]

Hopefully that's what he means.

I'm actually looking forward to that. Should be hilarious.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's the story he meant I think

:lol:

In other news, never work in an estate agents. I am now for work experience and it is so boring :upset:

I never did any work experience. Not entirely sure how I managed to get out of it, but I did. My sister is in Sweden at the moment, but when she gets back she's starting her work experience in a hotel's kitchen.

I did work experience in an office, I spent most of the time playing table football and drinking tea in the cafeteria...