[QUOTE=Happy]Interesting. I don't see why he's even bothering with American Idol though, surely he knows they wont accept him. I've seeen it done loads of times before.[/QUOTE]

Of course he knows it, the fact that they rejected him made him feel really hardcore and underground and I hope he runs into a sharp object soon.

[QUOTE=Superpeer]Of course he knows it, the fact that they rejected him made him feel really hardcore and underground and I hope he runs into a sharp object soon.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much.

Like I said, I think it would be funny if someone went on there with a singing style that definately wouldn't make it, and they were doing it not for the attention or to make some pretentious statement, but just for a laugh.

[QUOTE=Spat Out Plath]He's hardcore and underground; of course he'll be running into something sharp soon.[/QUOTE]

I doubt he'll run into something sharp and pointy anytime soon, but he'll probably be backing into something long and hard before the week's over.

[QUOTE=Superpeer]
As for atheism, I don't think it's the right state of mind, because even there is no adequate evidence for the existence of God, the same can be said about God (or a higher creature, if you wish) not existing. I suppose it's more logical to not believe in something that is not verifiable, but still, atheist is such a strong word. Why be against something that you don't believe to exist in the first place.

That's why not caring or not knowing is the best and the most rational thing to do, agnostic all the way.
[/QUOTE]
Agnosticism bothers me because I see it as the inability to just admit your choice. I mean, one way or the other you have to believe one way or the other. You lean towards one option. So why not just admit that rather than hide behind a film of ambiguity. Most everyone (except the most hardcore believers in god) admits there's no strong evidence to either side, so everyone realizes that, it's not some Agnostic revelation. But it's impossible to be entirely impartial and objective as Agnostics would have themselves believe. So *shrug* it just bothers me because it's pretending to be something you can't be, in my eyes.

But I'm going to class and will miss any responses to this for awhile.

when you speak of "evidence" as concrete...

In my experiences, there are things that I would completely consider "concrete", but its not like it would be admissable in a court room setting. I think its all about your interpretation of the event.

I normally use 'Pulp Fiction' as a good example with the divine intervention arguement between John Travolta and Samual L

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]Agnosticism bothers me because I see it as the inability to just admit your choice. I mean, one way or the other you have to believe one way or the other. You lean towards one option. So why not just admit that rather than hide behind a film of ambiguity. Most everyone (except the most hardcore believers in god) admits there's no strong evidence to either side, so everyone realizes that, it's not some Agnostic revelation. But it's impossible to be entirely impartial and objective as Agnostics would have themselves believe. So *shrug* it just bothers me because it's pretending to be something you can't be, in my eyes.

But I'm going to class and will miss any responses to this for awhile.[/QUOTE]

But, I think, to religious people agnostics seem atheists, because they don't believe in god. Atheist is just to strong of a word for something that you can't be sure about. Most atheists I know don't just not believe in God, they are quite, well, heh, religious about their beliefs. That's just too ironic for me. So I just play it safe. Sure, sometimes I lean towards this or that, but I can't really be sure.

I went to a catholic primary school, so yeah, it left a tad of mysticism in me. Religion can be a beautiful thing, but all too often it is abused. Although I'm not religious, the inside of a church is still impressive. These ambiguities reflect themselves perfectly in an ambiguous way of thinking.


[QUOTE]I normally use 'Pulp Fiction' as a good example with the divine intervention arguement between John Travolta and Samual L[/QUOTE]

That's exactly why you can't be sure and shouldn't use either extremity, atheist or religious.

What I can say is that Pulp Fiction is a divine film.

These conversations rule. The only problem is my opinion is moot because anything I would have liked to add has already been said, and I don't want to reiterate obvious things.

[QUOTE]These conversations rule. The only problem is my opinion is moot because anything I would have liked to add has already been said, and I don't want to reiterate obvious things.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the quality of this thread has been high, the last days. A lot of good discussions, whether it be girls or evolution. Bravo!

[QUOTE]I don't see it like that, at least I differ in some aspects. I'm bothered by atheists who announce there's no god with the kind of conviction that could only come with concrete evidence, when there really isn't any. Just because you lean towards atheism or theism, it doesn't mean you're ruling the other out. That's where agnostics and even a lot of theists are coming from.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Some people go much too far in atheism.


[QUOTE]Yo, me too. All of it :h5:[/QUOTE]

:h5:

NP: Queens of the Stone age - Little Sister
WP: In Flames - Satellites and Astronauts

I do applaud this thread for being able to hold a conversation about religion, and not having it turn into a petty arguement about whos right or wrong.


i normally abstain from these types of conversations for that reason

Jeez, I hope I didn't miss out on the whole religion talk

I always get the "Itis" after eating at my dining hall :-(

My tapping sucks.

Gingivitis? Meningitis? What are you talking about?

[QUOTE=Happy]My tapping sucks.[/QUOTE]



just use a metronome. Takes all the guess work out of it

[QUOTE=Eggo]I always get the "Itis" after eating at my dining hall :-([/QUOTE]

I had that yesterday. Mmmmmmmmm tacos.


On another note, I failed my Sociology exam and expect the same for my Biology. :(

What the hell is the Itis?

oh, it's hepatitis. I think.

hes saying his cafe is gross, and hes worried about contracting an STD while eating there

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]Most everyone (except the most hardcore believers in god) admits there's no strong evidence to either side, so everyone realizes that, it's not some Agnostic revelation.[/QUOTE]

And an agnostic (with a little intelligence) wouldn't argue that it is. There's a difference between acknowledging that we can never know for certain one way or the other, and then saying that the world is one way or the other anyway, and electing not to 'choose' one way or the other at all. Agnosticism is a perfectly tenable and consistent position.

[QUOTE=Illmatic]What the hell is the Itis?

oh, it's hepatitis. I think.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I had hepatitis yesterday :p

It's from the newest Boondocks episode.

Today i saw my guitar teacher leaving school in the most ghetto van I've ever seen. I couldn't help but laugh, it doesn't suite him at all. No wonder he's never mentioned his car.

You have lost me entirely. That episode was on like two weeks ago.

i saw boondocks twice, and thought it was retarded...

then i find out on a preview that theres friggin ninja swords and sh!t. Man, was i ever disappointed

Hey, metal guitar, I'm listening to those Piano Sonatas you sent me a while ago, it's great.

Glad to hear it, it's nice to hear some feedback :)
I seem to remember they were Beethoven sonatas, but remind me which numbers the ones I sent you are..

NP:Beethoven-Sonata14 in c#, Op 27-2 'Moonlight' - 3.PrestoAgitato

[QUOTE=Bartender]And an agnostic (with a little intelligence) wouldn't argue that it is. There's a difference between acknowledging that we can never know for certain one way or the other, and then saying that the world is one way or the other anyway, and electing not to 'choose' one way or the other at all. Agnosticism is a perfectly tenable and consistent position.[/QUOTE]
agnostics unite....


anyways we discussed repression today in psychology, its quite an interesting and scary function of the human brain.

Man I wish we studied Psychology at GCSE.

whats GCSE?

NP AoS - Mr. M., Man of Muzak.

it appears i might be dropping from my new band already fellas...



that lasted a whole 13 days :lol:

[QUOTE=guitrguy]whats GCSE?

NP AoS - Mr. M., Man of Muzak.[/QUOTE]
Um GCSEs are kinda like your finals in high school I believe. We spend 2 years studying for them and a lot of Coursework is done which contributes to your final grade.

[QUOTE=Happy]Um GCSEs are kinda like your finals in high school I believe. We spend 2 years studying for them and a lot of Coursework is done which contributes to your final grade.[/QUOTE]
Well that sucks, I;m glad I didnt have to do that.

I <3 being American.

NP: Arcturus - Wintry Grey

[QUOTE=Superpeer]But, I think, to religious people agnostics seem atheists, because they don't believe in god. Atheist is just to strong of a word for something that you can't be sure about. Most atheists I know don't just not believe in God, they are quite, well, heh, religious about their beliefs. That's just too ironic for me. So I just play it safe. Sure, sometimes I lean towards this or that, but I can't really be sure.

I went to a catholic primary school, so yeah, it left a tad of mysticism in me. Religion can be a beautiful thing, but all too often it is abused. Although I'm not religious, the inside of a church is still impressive. These ambiguities reflect themselves perfectly in an ambiguous way of thinking.
[/QUOTE]
Well, it's all down to perception. I see Atheism simply as the statement of my belief. I don't believe there is a higher being. I'm not trying to be militant about it or fore my belief of it on others, it's just the way I see the world. I know there are a lot of Atheists who are more...emphatic...about their beliefs, but hey, every extremist gives a bad name to their religion. If we judged people based on the most extreme or fundamental of their practitioners, Islamists would all be suicide bombers, Christians would all be Evangelists, and Jews would all be stingy :p

I was raised Christian too, and I mean, yeah, Europe has some awe inspiring churches, but tell me how that proves the existence of god? They're man made objects. Than man can create such art doesn't inspire me to believe there's some god who enabled that, it just makes me more aware of the range of human abilities. I mean I'm not saying you're one hundred pecent sure of whether or not you believe in god. But if I ask "do you believe in god?" you're not totally lost, you have a rough idea of yes or no. People who say they aren't sure aren't telling the whole truth.
[QUOTE=Spat Out Plath]I don't see it like that, at least I differ in some aspects. I'm bothered by atheists who announce there's no god with the kind of conviction that could only come with concrete evidence, when there really isn't any. Just because you lean towards atheism or theism, it doesn't mean you're ruling the other out. That's where agnostics and even a lot of theists are coming from.
[/QUOTE]
But see, that's just a bad perception. And, actually, some of it comes from the fact that in a world where there are so many Theists who proclaim their beliefs as fact, there has to be a counterbalance. I mean, if all Atheists simply said they didn't believe in god just because, and then Theists did the same, there'd be no real points of contention because you can't change someone's belief. But when one group tries hard to, the other group has to try hard to do so as well just to maintain the balance. The fact is most people don't care that much on either side. As an Atheist, I'm not saying I'm right, and I'm not discounting the possibility of god's existence. I'm simply stating I don't believe he exists. And by definition that's what an Atheist is. And when it comes down to it, in my mind, everyone is a Theist or Atheist in their mind, if not outwardly. No one has no belief either way.
[QUOTE=Bartender]And an agnostic (with a little intelligence) wouldn't argue that it is. There's a difference between acknowledging that we can never know for certain one way or the other, and then saying that the world is one way or the other anyway, and electing not to 'choose' one way or the other at all. Agnosticism is a perfectly tenable and consistent position.[/QUOTE]
Most Agnostics I know seem to think they are a million times better by not choosing a side because it makes them so objective. I don't see it as a tenable position because it's impossible to be objective and once you have an opinion, that's where your true beliefs lie. You don't believe in the idea that there might be a god, you believe there probably is or probably isn't, at the least. Humans are, by nature, opinionated.