Scream demon, this summer I mentioned i'm doing lessons with Mark Baxter or Jaime Vendera. Which one would be better to go with? You said you have been with both.

Baxter is better known. Vendera, I have his book and am doing his exercises, but i'd have to do webcam and i'm not sure how good that is.

Mainly what I want to accomplish with the lessons is just make sure i'm not singing badly, but the big thing I want to learn is rasp/screaming techniques.

For a while i've tried a bunch of different ways to do it, and now its at the point where I have no idea whats right or wrong after seeing so many articles/lessons on it. Recently I tried Jaimes way of describing rasp. And to me, what I was doing, was doing a less intense version of the melissa cross scream.

It seems like a subtle switch. I havent recorded it yet, but it doesnt sound too amazing yet. But the melissa cross scream is weak sounding and a lot of bands I like PROBALLY dont use it, so i'm wondering if what i'm doing is right or wrong. Also there are many types of screams, and I want to be able to do as many as I can.

So who is better for screaming? Baxter, or Vendera?

Tough question for me to answer because I work with them both and they are both great teachers. Honestly, go with Baxter. No ones going to teach you how to scream exactly. They will give you vague exercises, and you figure it out yourself based on those and tips. Baxter will teach you a huge variety of things and get you exactly where you need to be, and will help you get the screaming down but will focus a lot on other more important things too that you HAVE to have in line if your gonna be screaming. The fact that it will be in person is even better. I've been doing video lessons with Bax for 5 years now, and talk to him all the time and get help, and plan to work as an associate under him in a few years so its definitely the thing to do.

That said, I am also planning on working under Jaime too and his technique has a lot to offer. But, since you have the book, you also have the audio files and video lessons to go off of, and hes not going to teach you anything much different from what you already have since there is already so much stuff available to you as soon as you buy RYV2.

Just to add another thing, thats my point exactly about the Melissa Cross scream. What she does is weak and quiet. It can be made to sound more powerful with effects and cupping the mic for a boomier sound, but its still pretty weak at its core. Her students in the videos are a lot more powerful all the time. They have each done their own thing. I can almost guarantee each of them started by doing it the 100% wrong way through experimentation. Once they got the sound finally just from copying other people, they started a career. Eventually, their voice started to fail them so they went to her for training. She was able to teach them correct vocal habits (non screaming related) that they can then apply to everything they sing and they are fine now. Thats why its important to not focus just on taking "screaming lessons".

Be like them in a way. Keep copying until you get the sound you want. Dont be stupid about it and lose your voice or bring on a lot of pain, but at the same time dont hold back and be scared of pushing a little. Once you get the sound you want, start working on applying the things you'll learn with Mark in lessons to your regular singing and your screaming, and you'll never have issues again.

Theres no exercise really thats going to get you exactly the sound you want. You have to make that first, and then you can make it safe.

Thanks for the reply!
The only bad thing with Baxter is that its 120 an hour instead of 75 an hour, but I guess in person is probally way better. And I know screaming can't really be legitimately tought, but he'd be able to tell if I was doing anything wrong, so eventually i'd get it right. Plus i'm sure he knows some ways to push the path along. Singing wise I think i'm set. Back before I knew good technique at all, I did a 3 hour set and didn't lose my voice. The only time I lose it now is from yelling all day from being at a show, or drinking coffee and yelling all day for w/e reason.

But singing wise, the RYV exercises work great. I went from being able to hit an A under high C with difficulty. To being able to hit B under high C with no difficulty. And this happened after 2 weeks of doing sirens. I have gotten to C#, but it wasn't that great sounding so I dont count that.

His price is like 120 an hour, and i'll probally do it this summer for only like 4 lessons. I'm assuming he's used to having to teach a lot in a small amount of time, most people can't afford that.

Thanks

--
Andrew

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz;16292094]Absolutely a baritone, but like I said it doesnt matter.

On the slide, your carrying up a little bit too much weight (pulling chest). So, your pushing a bit too much air/using excess muscles. Its fine until it gets distorted though; its just more of a tonality choice than anything. However, you got a little bit of distortiong, then immediately flipped into a falsetto/head voice mixed raspy scream. So, your not completely connected right now. When I have someone do that in a lesson and hear that, I would start off with simple scales on AH, and make sure that they just let it crack, let it go into falsetto, let it sound bad, whatever. Then, once its smooth, we would work on exercises to focus the sound for a better tonal quality. Thats exactly what you need to do, because right now your working well with what you've got, but your not near your potential. You need to lay a basic boring sounding foundation (dont add any rasp or any nasality or anything to make it sound better). Only after you have the ability to sing throughout your entire current range with a clean and clear tone can you change it up and start working on coloring the tone.[/QUOTE]

Excellent! Thank you so much for your help :) it's people like you who restore my faith in humanity :)

also if it's not too much trouble, did i have support when i sang? i have tried for a long time to sing from my gut but never fully understood whether i was doing it right...

Is there any way to make your head voice thicker/richer? Going into head voice makes high notes a piece of cake, but the tone becomes very thin. Also you start to sound more girly/like a kid with the thinness and nasality

It all comes with training. The best way to approach it is to strengthen what is at this point your falsetto. I do this with people by working on exercises that strengthen the vocalis muscle, which is the muscle that controls the thickness of your cords. The thicker your cords, the fuller the sound when paired with resonance.

Resonance is the other part of it. You've got to learn how to and where to place your sound. If you just sing without the sound going anywhere but straight out of your mouth, your going to sound is going to be dull.

I have a performance coming up on saturday, and i came down with a slight fever but a very sore throat. Any tips for me?

Leading up to it (today and Friday), you can use sprays like Chloraseptic if you aren't going to be singing, but don't use it if you are. Things like Throat Coat Tea will help, as well as Sinus rinses (you can buy the NeilMed Sinus Rinse kit at pretty much any drug store.

Gargle with warm salt water (just put salt in water, you dont have to make a trip to the ocean haha). This helps to release and bring up all the excess mucus that has been created.

Sleep with a humidifier on if you have one. Don't quit talking to save your voice because the swelling will just get worse from the inactivity, but do pay attention to make sure your not shouting or straining your voice while you do talk.

No caffeine at all until its over, only stick with water and the tea if you have it. Ice water is fine (might even help to reduce some of the swelling in your pharynx area thats causing the sore throat), but drink room temperature water at the performance.


All of that and a long warm up (however long it takes to sound like normal, could be a couple of hours) and you should be good. You can pick and choose things to try, you dont have to do it all but it would be very beneficial if you did.

[QUOTE=kdash;16359647]I have a performance coming up on saturday, and i came down with a slight fever but a very sore throat. Any tips for me?[/QUOTE]


You can sing perfectly fine with anything, as long as its not a vocal cord area problem like laryngitis.

get a humidifier for your room.
get more sleep
drink more every day
eat better
i'm pretty sure zinc and vitamin C are good when your sick

before the show, drink a lot of water that day. Breathe in steam. Warm up really good.

my throat basically feels swollen, it hurts when i swallow, and it doesn't feel clear like i need to cough something up. Right now i barely talk, but when i do it is very soft and quiet, though i know i could be loud if i want. you think it is going to affect my vocals?

Your pharynx is whats swollen and what hurts, your vocal cords dont have any feeling so its all about controlling that. The messed up sound is because the cords are swollen and have extra mucus. You can still sing, but like I said it will require a long warm up to get to sounding normal. You first have to get rid of that excess mucus, then you have to thin out the cords enough to stretch and adduct properly for singing. If you do a good long thorough warm up, you'll be fine. You may still feel the pain, but if you absolutely have to sing, it will be fine. Like kidthatplaysguitar said, you can sing safely with anything but laryngitis. Laryngitis effects the vocal cords. They would be swollen so much you wouldnt be able to speak at all. If you push incorrectly and dont warm up you could wind up with laryngitis though, so use a lot of caution as you warm up and perform. I've got an early morning performance tomorrow and im a little sore and hoarse right now, so i'll have to get up at at least 5:30 tomorrow morning to get my voice going. You may wind up having to warm up throughout the entire day too.

I will be having rehearsals around 1, then the performance is later at 7. Do you think i should be working my voice from the rehearsal till then? What i'm scared is i would tire out my voice, since the first piece i'll be performing is the kind of song that normally I can do it once perfectly, but if you tell me to do it again right after, it won't be as gd, since it is a fastish song with not much room for taking a breath.

As soon as you wake up (should be 9 or 10 am since your rehearsal is at 1), drink a glass of water and start doing lip trills. Drink another glass of water,then take a short. Do lip trills and humming in the shower. When you get out of the shower, do a full warm up routine with lip trills, hums, open voweled scales, and staccato patterns on "HE". Then run through an easy song to see how your voice is doing. It will probably still be a little stiff sounding/feeling trying to navigate around your range. Drink another glass of water and relax for a bit, then go right back to do whatever exercises seem to help you the most. After the rehearsal you can rest for a bit (but continue to drink pleanty of water). Around 5, do your full warm up routine and another shower to clear you out if you still feel like you've got too much excess mucus. By showtime you should be fine. Don't worry about wearing out because none of these exercises will do that unless your not paying attention to your breathing/support.

thanks, there is only one more problem i have that needs to be addressed. It is when i am breathing/taking in air, i have this sensation to cough, which makes me afraid the worst will happen once the performance comes.......

Just drink a lot of water and that will eventually go away. Its because your entire throat area is basically raw and completely dry from the swelling, so the more water you drink, the more that will begin to go away. If you still have that feeling tomorrow by 4, you could use some throat spray to help numb the area if absolutely necessary, but it could possible just get worse unless you keep using it over and over again so don't do that unless the pain tomorrow and coughing sensation makes it impossible to sing.

Finally got through it. Thanks a lot for the tips, was a great help. Now I'm gonna try to recover, since I feel like I am literally dying after -.-

Do a lot of the same things to recover, only take it really easy and slow, and dont worry about how you sound. You just want to keep your cords somewhat active in a healthy way so they don get too swollen, or else it will take forever to recover.

Screamin Demon, I think I remember seeing that you live in Ohio. I live in the Cinci/Dayton area. I'm still working on my singing every day and have been seeing some good improvements. Do you recommend lessons and if so do you know of any that I can take around this area? I'm looking to eventually join a cover band as a singer in the rock/alternative genre.

I do lessons, but I am about 2 and a half hours from you. If you are interested, I do online lessons as well, you can read about the lesson types on my blog site.

Other than that, Jaime Vendera is a few hours from you as well but im not sure if he is taking on new people at the moment, his schedule tends to be pretty booked. Other than him, theres really no one around that isn't a classical coach thats going to tell you your throat is about to be ripped to shreds if you scream or do anything non classical at all.

it's been awhile since i've been on, but I need real help methinks.


I finally got the courage up to record with my buddy and uhhh, i sound terrible.

I don't know exactly what i'm doing wrong, which is what i'm trying to find out.

any help would be appreciated greatly.


here's the recording.


[url]http://www.supload.com/listen?s=268BGCJ614LG[/url]


Disclaimer: May severely bruise ears.

You need work on the same thing most people new to singing (serious singing at least) need. You need a exercise routine that addresses pitch, tone, placement, and breathing issues.

Once the foundation is set, you need to start incorporating some style, which can be taught and or learned. This could be something like screaming, changing up your tone, doing vocal runs, etc.

You need to get a coach either in person or online, or buy a singing program and work hard with it.

I have been singing quite a bit for the past week, probably about 5-6 hours a day, sometimes up to 8. Over the past 2 days after my initial warmup my voice has been very raspy in chest voice and I can't hit a lot of notes in headvoice. When I go into headvoice I feel a sharp sort of pain in the lower part of my neck close to where the collar bone is. It doesn't hurt but I can definitely feel it.

Are my vocal cords irritated or has a nodule formed? If so what should I do about it?

I don't have any idea where to get voice lessons.

I think my voice is doing ok, it's just fatigued since I have been singing so much lately.

I was able to put this clip together without it hurting at all, any feedback would be appreciated. I've been watching Melissa Cross' DVD's and am starting to get the fry screaming down. I'm working on improving my enunciation when in fry screaming so I know I need to work on that, J-Mann (the part I am doing) does his fry very fast so that is part of the reason.

The song is Sun Doesn't Rise by Mushroomhead:

[url]http://www.box.net/shared/sdu330s8ww[/url]

Here is the original:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNGckHZpC7o[/url]

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Al Strzelecki;16391563]I don't have any idea where to get voice lessons.[/QUOTE]

I personally give lessons and could start you next month; check my site on my profile for details.

You could also find other vocal coaches on the net just by doing a search; a lot of coaches do online and video (some even do phone) nowadays, so if there are no good coaches in your area that might be a good option.

There are also programs you could work with like Singing Success, Singers Advantage, and Jaime Vendera's book Raise Your Voice 2nd Edition. Those are just a few suggestions.

[QUOTE=Rejuv3;16392029]I think my voice is doing ok, it's just fatigued since I have been singing so much lately.

I was able to put this clip together without it hurting at all, any feedback would be appreciated. I've been watching Melissa Cross' DVD's and am starting to get the fry screaming down. I'm working on improving my enunciation when in fry screaming so I know I need to work on that, J-Man (the part I am doing) does his fry very fast so that is part of the reason.

The song is Sun Doesn't Rise by Mushroomhead:

[url]http://www.box.net/shared/sdu330s8ww[/url]

Here is the original:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNGckHZpC7o[/url]

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Sounds good. The way you have to think about this is your making the basic sound, and to make it bigger you can use techniques the pros use like layering tracks, cupping the mic, lots of reverb, some distortion, whatever else you want to use to make it sound huge.

So, when I hear something like this, I listen to hear if your pushing too much. You appear to have a pretty good balance of air pressure. Then you have to pay attention to the basic tone; your tone is good. If your happy with it, then you can tweak it by adding a little bit more support behind it (pushing down like using the restroom or that feeling you get in that area when you cough), and it will have a bit more power behind it and will also make it easier to enunciate everything.

Since this isnt an a cappella clip, I can't hear you as clearly as i'd like, so I cant promise you your not maybe pushing too much air through every once in a while. You should be able to tell yourself and then correct it. If your throat starts to burn, feel dry, or your cords get swollen to the point of not being able to produce falsetto tones quickly after singing like this, you need to stop and focus your attention on the fundamentals again before working on a song.

[QUOTE=Screamin_Demon_Auz;16392952]Sounds good. The way you have to think about this is your making the basic sound, and to make it bigger you can use techniques the pros use like layering tracks, cupping the mic, lots of reverb, some distortion, whatever else you want to use to make it sound huge.

So, when I hear something like this, I listen to hear if your pushing too much. You appear to have a pretty good balance of air pressure. Then you have to pay attention to the basic tone; your tone is good. If your happy with it, then you can tweak it by adding a little bit more support behind it (pushing down like using the restroom or that feeling you get in that area when you cough), and it will have a bit more power behind it and will also make it easier to enunciate everything.

Since this isnt an a cappella clip, I can't hear you as clearly as i'd like, so I cant promise you your not maybe pushing too much air through every once in a while. You should be able to tell yourself and then correct it. If your throat starts to burn, feel dry, or your cords get swollen to the point of not being able to produce falsetto tones quickly after singing like this, you need to stop and focus your attention on the fundamentals again before working on a song.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'm working on adding more support to it to help with the power, I think after I practice some more I'll be able to do that. I was able to do this over and over again without anything happening to my throat as far as pain, dryness, or anything like that, I was able to sing regularly after doing it as well. In fact it's easier for me to do this than sing regularly.

It feels good seeing progress after working so hard at it haha. Thanks for the help.

Screamin, I've got a question for you about my cords. About 5-6 days ago is when I first consciously found my middle voice, once I found it that day I was using it a lot in songs because I was happy that I found it. During that time I was able to hit the notes I was aiming for fine.

Since then however, I haven't been able to hit them. When I go into middle and go for the same high notes that I was able to hit during the last time that I did it my voice starts cracking really bad, almost as if I am doing vocal fry but my vocal cords are zipped up for middle, it sounds very similar to vocal fry.

I'm getting in about a gallon and half of room temperature water daily so I know hydration isn't a problem, water is the only thing I drink. I also warm up for about 30 minutes before I go into my songs. I also haven't taken a rest in about 2 and a half weeks, so maybe that is the problem.

I'm pretty worried about this. Are my vocal cords just swollen and fatigued and I just to need to take a rest for a while (if so for how long?), or has a node formed on the cords? When I am in middle I can feel a little bit of pain in the lower part of my neck, presumably some place in the larynx. I also feel a burning sensation in my throat when I breathe through my nose and mouth after I am done singing. I'm not sure if I should see a throat doctor at this point. It only happens when I am in middle (mixed) voice.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

First off, you haven't got nodes so don't worry about it. When I first started I thought I had them everytime my voice would sound a little rough or hurt a little bit, but by now ive realized how hard it really is to do that kind of damage, and it would be a long road leading up to actually developing a node; your voice would be messed up at all times, you'd slowly start losing the middle part of your voice and your falsetto, etc. So dont worry about it.

Sounds like your drinking plenty of water so thats no issue. Heres the thing; you may be doing a warm up and you may be doing it with 100% perfect technique, but you still could be straining your voice. Since you've been going at it without any real resting, I think your just overworking your vocal muscles.

The discovery of your mix/middle voice could very well be that you found the coordination, but it could also be that your cords starting to get a little strained and swollen and you were able to produce that sound. It sounds weird, but the day or 2 before your voice gives out on you from pushing it too much will be when you sound your best...everything will sound amazing and you'll be able to sing up higher in a fuller tone than ever before.

The reason why is the swelling. Your cords get to a point where you can push them and thanks to the swelling, you'll be able to take chest ( or what you might had thought was middle ) up higher than ever before. This can go on for a day or two, and then your voice just kind of dies on you. After this, your voice will be deepened due to all the swelling,and you wont have access to any head voice notes, and if you still have a falsetto it will be breathy as hell.

So, heres the only way I can determine if you really found middle or not without hearing an audio file. You were able to sing in your mid and high mid range in a full voice tone; how was your falsetto? Were you singing notes usually only usable in a loud falsetto tone in a full voice? Was your falsetto more breathy or harder to bring up than normal? What about your lower chest notes...was anything different about them?

Either way, its overuse, so take a few days off from singing songs...keep doing light warm ups for 15 minutes a day until everything feels normal. if you truly discovered middle as opposed to just pushing on swollen beat up cords, try to get that feeling back and use less breath pressure to produce it.