Well interesting to me =/= prog/expiramental stuff like GR. I can't grasp the heaviness though. There's more heaviness in St. Anger than GR :p

Oh for sure. St. Anger was a generally heavy album, just don't forget that heavy =/= good.

I imagine GR as a mixture of Deliverance and Damnation, what with the jazz influences and stuff they adopted on those albums.

Actually both of the times of I have seen Opeth live I would say that the songs they played off GR were the heaviest. I couldn’t believe how kick-*** the grand conjuration was live.

[QUOTE=Moses]Oh for sure. St. Anger was a generally heavy album, just don't forget that heavy =/= good.

I imagine GR as a mixture of Deliverance and Damnation, what with the jazz influences and stuff they adopted on those albums.[/QUOTE]
Metal must be heavy to be good (in my opinion of course), but yeah, heavy =/= good.

TGC is alot better and heavier live than on the album.

[QUOTE=Hope Eternal]TGC is alot better and heavier live than on the album.[/QUOTE]

QFT

I hate the recorded version, but I've seen it live twice, and it owned both times.

[QUOTE=Wotan]Metal must be heavy to be good (in my opinion of course), but yeah, heavy =/= good.[/QUOTE]
I don't know, I like Iron Maiden because they're awesome, not because they're heavy.

[QUOTE=pate]QFT

I hate the recorded version, but I've seen it live twice, and it owned both times.[/QUOTE]
The atmosphere created live is awesome. The last time I saw them, they opened with TGC. Great opener.

[QUOTE=Moses]I don't know, I like Iron Maiden because they're awesome, not because they're heavy.[/QUOTE]
They are definitely heavy though.

Not to me really.

Anyway, in my opinion Orchid and Morningrise aren't really that heavy. They sound pretty thin to me for some reason, but I'm pretty sure they weren't going for the whole heavy thing.

Hmm.

Maybe we just see things different. You being a jazz/fusion lover and me being a typical metalhead type, haha. Ironically enough, my favorite guitarist is a fusion player.

Who's that?

Shawn Lane. I figured you'd know because of my unholy level of whoring, haha.

[QUOTE=Moses]Not to me really.

Anyway, in my opinion Orchid and Morningrise aren't really that heavy. They sound pretty thin to me for some reason, but I'm pretty sure they weren't going for the whole heavy thing.[/QUOTE]
It's the drums, the bass drum is way too high in the mix and there are no interesting fills or rhtyhms around to make it overall a "heavy" album.

I think.

Haven't been around for a little while though so I didn't know. Shawn Lane is great. As far as fusion players go I love Frank Gambale and Al Di Meola, except Al's fusion stuff is nothing compared to his new acoustic stuff with Stanley Clarke. Anyway yeah I like jazz.
[QUOTE=TojesDoLan]It's the drums, the bass drum is way too high in the mix and there are no interesting fills or rhtyhms around to make it overall a "heavy" album.

I think.[/QUOTE]
That and the way the guitar parts were written. The harmonies are good but thin and weren't really intended to be heavy. The vocals are thin and didn't adopt his amazing growl in at the time. In my opinion the heaviest moment on Orchid is the long part in Under the Weeping Moon and it's an acoustic section. That's just how I see it.

Hearing Lane just changed my opinion on music. Not only is he arguably one of the best all around players (not only on guitar either) of all time technical wise, but he puts so much feeling and emotion into his playing. It just boggles my mind how one man can be so dedicated to achieve that during his short lived life.

[QUOTE=pate]Pre-GR Opeth > GR Opeth

:)[/QUOTE]

Are we comparing 7 albums to 1 album? If so, then yes, the easy victory does indeed go to pre-GR Opeth.

It's funny, GR is quite unpopular on this site. However, on other sites I go to it's actually very liked by everyone. I guess it just depends on where you go.

I personally love that freakin album. I was listening to The Baying of the Hounds this morning and it gave me chills like I havent had in a long time while listening to a song. That song is pure genius.

Allmusic puts Ghost Reverie well for me:

"Ghost Reveries comes together like a suite, characters have various faces and traits, but they are all reflections in a mirror that retains no permanent image. This album is a culmination of everything Opeth have worked toward throughout their career. It's fully realized, stunningly beautiful, and emotionally fragmented; it's a terrain where power, tenderness, and sheer grief hold forth under heavy manners. Awesome. "

[QUOTE=Kage]Allmusic puts Ghost Reverie well for me:

"Ghost Reveries comes together like a suite, characters have various faces and traits, but they are all reflections in a mirror that retains no permanent image. This album is a culmination of everything Opeth have worked toward throughout their career. It's fully realized, stunningly beautiful, and emotionally fragmented; it's a terrain where power, tenderness, and sheer grief hold forth under heavy manners. Awesome. "[/QUOTE]
I agree. It's a really big mix of things, yet isn't a hodgepodge of crap.

I agree that Orchid/Morningrise are generally not very "heavy" albums. The emphasis was very much on the dual harmonies and experimental song structures...for me, MAYH was the first truly heavy Opeth album...although it arguably remains their heaviest to date (although Deliverance is definitely more straight-forward aggressive, I personally feel that MAYH maintains a much stronger emotional weight, so to say).

Oh, and GR is a great album.

I cannot stand GR. It pales in line with MAYH & MA.

[QUOTE=Kage]Allmusic puts Ghost Reverie well for me:

"Ghost Reveries comes together like a suite, characters have various faces and traits, but they are all reflections in a mirror that retains no permanent image. This album is a culmination of everything Opeth have worked toward throughout their career. It's fully realized, stunningly beautiful, and emotionally fragmented; it's a terrain where power, tenderness, and sheer grief hold forth under heavy manners. Awesome. "[/QUOTE]

Where's the flamenco passages if its a combination of everything Opeth has worked on?

Wheres the killer acoustic guitar lines... I didn't hear any of those on GR. Oh and the lyrics fail. "These are the trees" as apposed to "*insert any other Opeth lyric ever*"

Oh wait, wasn't the riffing horribly sub part to that of every other Opeth album? (save the obvious Damnation and Orchid/Morningrise)

As i've said before. I never listened to Opeth just for the riffs. I listen to them for the overall feel of the songs, and Mike's voice. GR is an amazing album, and I love it. So the riffs arn't as good as riffs on previous albums, fine, fair enough, really, if anything, that would bring the album down half a star or a star tops seeing as Opeth arn't all about the riffs anyway.

Then you consider the fact that Mike's clean singing is the best it's ever been. That takes it back up, plus I love the songs on it. The single being the worst song, oddly.

GoP and Baying of the hounds are classic Opeth songs that should be on every set, that alone shows the album isn't lacking. Most other albums have a couple of so stand-out tracks too, and the standouts here are just as good.

Yeah, I thought the riffs(mostly) failed.

GR just sounds really bland compared to any other Opeth album.

[QUOTE=Moses]That and the way the guitar parts were written. The harmonies are good but thin and weren't really intended to be heavy. The vocals are thin and didn't adopt his amazing growl in at the time. In my opinion the heaviest moment on Orchid is the long part in Under the Weeping Moon and it's an acoustic section. That's just how I see it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, those are my feelings on it. That and the fact that it doesn't "flow" like the rest of their material.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]Where's the flamenco passages if its a combination of everything Opeth has worked on?[/QUOTE]

In that part of Ghost of perdition after the first growled-verses, then a clean vocal, and then there's this "flamenco passage" :p

GR didn't have MAJOR METAL RIFFAGE so it SUX DICK.

[QUOTE=TojesDoLan]In that part of Ghost of perdition after the first growled-verses, then a clean vocal, and then there's this "flamenco passage" :p[/QUOTE]

Nothing like anything off of [I]Morningrise[/I] :angry:.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]Where's the flamenco passages if its a combination of everything Opeth has worked on?[/QUOTE]
Lol Opeth has never done any flamenco.

Just because it sounds like it's spanish doesn't mean it's flamenco.

Maybe we're all thinking about the FINGERPICKED PARTS by Opeth but that don't constitue flamenco, but FINGERPICKED PARTS themselves.

I like that one in Bleak, The moor and Serenity Painted Death. Those have got to be my favorite.

I just see Opeth as more diverse now. Plus they have more jazz influence which is an excellent.

[QUOTE=Moses]I just see Opeth as more diverse now. Plus they have more jazz influence which is an excellent.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm.

Where exactly? I fail to see where. O_O

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]Nothing like anything off of [I]Morningrise[/I] :angry:.[/QUOTE]

Nothing after Still Life has acoustic passages like Morningrise.

[QUOTE=Darkness]Wheres the killer acoustic guitar lines... I didn't hear any of those on GR. Oh and the lyrics fail. "These are the trees" as apposed to "*insert any other Opeth lyric ever*"

Oh wait, wasn't the riffing horribly sub part to that of every other Opeth album? (save the obvious Damnation and Orchid/Morningrise)[/QUOTE]

The album is fine. I just find it to be more of an upbeat kinda thing that the other albums don't have. I don't listen to GR that much but when i do its great.

[QUOTE=Carrionshine]Nothing after Still Life has acoustic passages like Morningrise.[/QUOTE]

That's my main beef with newer Opeth.

[QUOTE=Darkness]Oh and the lyrics fail. "These are the trees" as apposed to "*insert any other Opeth lyric ever*"[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Opeth - The Funeral Portrait]
Enough of this
You will leave me now
You will see it now[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Opeth - A Fair Judgement]
Losing sleep
In too deep
Fading sun
What have I done[/QUOTE]

Lyrics aren't really Opeth's strong suit. And I still maintain that GR is a fantastic album.

[QUOTE=eighty d]Lyrics aren't really Opeth's strong suit. And I still maintain that GR is a fantastic album.[/QUOTE]
You didn't pick the particularly better written parts.

That was biased.

On a related note, BWP has the most complex Opeth lyrics, in my opinion.

My favourite Opeth album lyrically is definitely MAYH.

[QUOTE=TojesDoLan]You didn't pick the particularly better written parts.

That was biased.

On a related note, BWP has the most complex Opeth lyrics, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

And he picked a bad part of GR. Same deal. The parts that I picked get overlooked because of the general amazingness of BWP and Deliverance. I do the same for the bad lyrics on GR.

[QUOTE=TojesDoLan]Hmmm.

Where exactly? I fail to see where. O_O[/QUOTE]
Just listen to the bass and drums.