Just because it isn't allowed doesn't mean people won't do it anyway.

I'll delete it all of course, I'm just saying people will be bitching.

Just saying what's up..

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]What do you all think of the In-Depth Critique Thread. I just sort of made it whimsically but it seemed like with all the songwriting advise things, we could use a thread in which people serious enough to write those guides or use them could riff off of each other.[/QUOTE]

I really like the idea of it....although there are going to be poems posted that no one will want to touch because of how horribly they are written. No one wants to crit a poem that is totally unoriginal/generic, makes no sense, grammatically horrible, not actually serious, has no meaning...etc etc. So hopefully someone will step up and crit the "poorly written" poems, or else the thread might fail. (you might have to take on that burden, just to keep the thread alive for everyone who is using it properly).

Although I'll be reading all the poems and crits in the thread, I doubt I'll post any of my own, and I really hate giving crits that are extremely in-depth.

I'm also a fan of the "In-Depth Critique Thread" concept. The rules are clear and straightforward, and I think that, if members are willing to put in the effort, this thread will be an excellent thing, and one of the high points of S&L.

When I'm not in over my head with school work, I'll try to get in there are crit something.

[QUOTE=SubtleDagger]Just because it isn't allowed doesn't mean people won't do it anyway.

I'll delete it all of course, I'm just saying people will be bitching.[/QUOTE]
Talking about spam, there is a little line of post in the "writer profile" thread that should be deleted in which you and APS participate. If you don't mind, fou course. :)

I just cleaned the whole thing out.

Great. You should've waited until Ma Cherie saw my reply to her post, though. Anyhow. It's alright. :D

I'd rather wait until she does something wrong again and ban her.

She's on my last nerve.

Should we warn her, or do you think she'll understand with all the rather direct indirect messages?

If only PM's were around. Not complaining about not having them, though. God bless AIM in that case... OK I'll go crit now.

About the indepth crit thread. I suggest that Dfelon should write one up as as an example to show people what he wants from the critique as it seems he's not pleased so far from the crits. An example, I believe, would help people gain a better understand from what the thread is asking for. Just a suggestion.

The only suggestion I have after reading some of the critiques is that people should offer their interpretation of the piece [i]as a whole[/i], regardless of whether that interpretation is correct. And then go into a line by line if necessary. The writing should make sense; the concept should be clear. Grammar is easy to nitpick.

Great idea, by the way.

Concerning an interpretation of the piece as a whole... what if no conclusion or interpretation is capable of being made?

There are always conclusions to be made. Even if it's only a you suck or you rock, the important thing is to say what you think of it, and being a bit objective.

Hm. Slackjaw did an amazing job, in my opinion, on his critique.

That's what I was hoping for on my song's critique, dag yo.

Good job.

Awesome idea Dfelon. I'll be waiting for a piece I feel strongly enough on, and will then get onto it.

As Burt said, there's the potential for a bit of moaning and bitching from less experienced/gracious users, but for the most part that thread is going to be really useful - sometimes you want lots of opinions that scratch the surface to get a general idea, and sometimes you really want a piece dissected, which is what the thread should do beautifully.

What are your opinions on using a Thesaurus while writing poetry?

I never had any problem with it, I don't use one every time I write...but a lot of times I figure there are better words to be used (that I'm just forgetting about, or am not yet aware of). I didn't really think anyone would have a problem with it, until my friend decided to inform me that using a Thesaurus is like "cheating", because they aren't your words.

I never really saw it that way. What do you guys think? I actually like reading the Thesaurus just for fun.

hmmm - well your friend is full of crap... technically, none of the words you use are 'your words' - you've picked them up from other people, books, hearing them used, all sorts, so why is using a particular book 'cheating'? In my eyes it's being intelligent - making use of available resources to enhance your vocabulary.

Personally however, I dislike using a thesaurus - no real moral reason, I just feel more comfortable using words I'm familiar with rather than using a word in the wrong context or something - I don't particularly like using unnecessarily complicated words in pieces anyway, and if I'm having to use a thesaurus to look up a word, that means there's a good chance it's too complicated, and therefore extraneous. However, that's simply my opinion - I'm a fan of simplicity. I don't doubt you'll get plenty of replies contradicting this post. :)



And if you read the thesaurus for fun, you need to get out more... :p

Just read books, man. You'll get a big vocabulary soon enough. If you rely too much on the thesaurus, you might find that you start to focus more on the individual impact of words, rather than the strength of the message.

Thanks for stepping up, Dead. You nailed it for the most part. 'twas a good critique. :)

[QUOTE=slackjaw]Just read books, man. You'll get a big vocabulary soon enough. If you rely too much on the thesaurus, you might find that you start to focus more on the individual impact of words, rather than the strength of the message.

Thanks for stepping up, Dead. You nailed it for the most part. 'twas a good critique. :)[/QUOTE]

I read tons of books, but the books I read either have words I already know (Hemingway, Fitzgerald)....or have new words are hard to apply to the type of poetry I write (Shakespeare, Neitzche).

edit - Any of you ever listened to Bright Eyes before? One of my guitar students gave me his [I]I'm Wide Awake It's Morning[/I] album to listen to, he thought I'd like it...I'm listening to it right now and I'm definitely diggin' it.

My favorite Bright Eye's album would either have to be [I]Fevers And Mirrors[/I] or [I]Lifted or The Story is in the Soil, Keep Your Ear to the Ground[/I].

I often use a thesaurus when writing simply because I'll have a word I'm looking for in the bak of my mind, but I can't find it. Bust out the thesaurus, and voila...I see that word and use it. I don't use it simply to make my diction more impressive though.

I dislike Bright Eyes immensely.

Yeah that's mainly why I would use a Thesaurus while writing.

What don't you like about Bright Eyes? The only thing I could think of that might bother someone is the vocals, and I listen to singers who are a lot more off key than him.

[QUOTE=thickasabrick]Yeah that's mainly why I would use a Thesaurus while writing.

What don't you like about Bright Eyes? The only thing I could think of that might bother someone is the vocals, and I listen to singers who are a lot more off key than him.[/QUOTE]
Vocals, overdone acoustic style, general overratedness, and massively overrated lyrics.

I don't find it to be particularly appealing to listen to, but the actual dislike comes from the massive attention he's getting for what I consider at best decent work.

Considering "I'm Wide Awake It's Morning" is probably his worst album since "A Collection of Songs", you can find better Bright Eyes tracks out there. If you enjoy the generality of the newest albums, you'd probably like "Letting Off the Happiness" and "Fevers and Mirrors", which are much deeper albums lyrically and emotionally. I can send them to you over AIM.

The only problem people might have with the earlier albums, if they do enjoy Bright Eyes at all, is that the sound is a lot less produced and more raw, especially the vocals. However i do agree that they're much better lyrically. My favourite album has got to be [I]Lifted...[/I]. It's much more solid all round (You Will, Bowl of Oranges, Lover I Don't Have To Love, Method Acting, Nothing Gets Crossed Out) than [I]Fevers and Mirrors[/I], off which i only really like 3 tracks (Haligh Haligh, An Attempt to Tip The Scales, The Calendar Hung Itself).

I'll check out some earlier albums in that case.

And I never judge an artist depending on how "overrated" or "underrated" he is. I had never heard of Bright Eyes up until this week, so when someone says "general overratedness and massively overrated lyrics" it doesn't really phase me very much. Why do you care whether or not the artist is considered good in other peoples eyes? That shouldn't change [I]your[/I] opinion of him.

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]More interesting version of Bright Eyes = Xiu Xiu

Significant influences on Bright Eyes that are really just much better bands = Braid, Cap'n Jazz, Cursive[/QUOTE]
Of those I've only heard Cursive, but they're awesome.
[QUOTE=thickasabrick]
And I never judge an artist depending on how "overrated" or "underrated" he is. I had never heard of Bright Eyes up until this week, so when someone says "general overratedness and massively overrated lyrics" it doesn't really phase me very much. Why do you care whether or not the artist is considered good in other peoples eyes? That shouldn't change [I]your[/I] opinion of him.[/QUOTE]
Eh, he's talked about in Rolling Stone and stuff, he's definitely well known. But the reason I'm forced to care is because anytime I say a thing against him, I know a bunch of people who will literally not talk to me. Just because I don't think his lyrics are anything special.

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]More interesting version of Bright Eyes = Xiu Xiu

Significant influences on Bright Eyes that are really just much better bands = Braid, Cap'n Jazz, Cursive[/QUOTE]
From the Cap'n Jazz I've heard, I tend to prefer Owls.

good call on Cursive, Dfelon - they've been a long time favourite of mine... Never really heard Xiu Xiu though. Are they worth checking out?

Anyone know any poppy bands that the lyrics dont make you wanna puke? Like semi alternative but obviously pop. Ive been listening to the new Ok Go album and its refreshing to my metalcore playlist. It fits well right next to The Acacia Strain.

[QUOTE=ITRIEDVOODOOONCE]Anyone know any poppy bands that the lyrics dont make you wanna puke? Like semi alternative but obviously pop. Ive been listening to the new Ok Go album and its refreshing to my metalcore playlist. It fits well right next to The Acacia Strain.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever listened to The Shins? They aren't a pop band, but they are accessable enough to be considered "poppy." I've only heard about ten songs of theirs, but they don't make me want to puke.

edit - Although I've never really focused in on the lyrics....I just use the songs to teach some of my students because they use a lot of simple, yet original and interesting chord progressions/rhythms.

yeah ive heard of them, they are pretty good.
The thing that i like about Ok Go is they have like a funky beat, and lyrics that are not completely corny and cliche.

"one last 40 proof
sittin in the corner booth
baby thats as good as it gets"

[QUOTE=ITRIEDVOODOOONCE]Anyone know any poppy bands that the lyrics dont make you wanna puke? Like semi alternative but obviously pop. Ive been listening to the new Ok Go album and its refreshing to my metalcore playlist. It fits well right next to The Acacia Strain.[/QUOTE]

Listen to Say Anything. Dan (RollerQueen) told me of them.

Very good lyrically.

"Yellow Cat (slash) Red Cat" is a favorite of mine. I will even supply the lyrics to you!

[b]Say Anything - Yellow Cat (slash) Red Cat [/B]
[I]
I watched my yellow cat invade my red cat in the yard
the feline war has raged for years
so I assumed it'd be too hard
for me to drive my foot between them
I would never risk the scratch
just to prove to one or both of them
a cat is just a cat

again I watched my cousin Greg watch MTV inside his home
he makes fun of the hip-hop videos from the couch he rides alone
snug in the cushion of his cackling
he forgets his looming doubts
he has relied on this for years
you will not yank the carpet out
no, no

these are my friends
this is who they have been for always
these are my days
this is how they stay
hey hey
(ok check this out)

I watched this dude each night
same table
who creates and crumples up
his eyes are wide from sipping endlessly his endless coffee cup
he feeds me quotes that lonely goat
I watch him grazing
I will not stop him when he rambles;
I’m becoming one myself.
Lou is bugged and shot up with drugs.
He sweats this bird he hardly knows.
All that he wants is to see someone he respects without their clothes
so like some hybrid mother/lover she’d soothe and heal his wounds and kiss
those dying ears so softly that the reaper stops to swoon. Oh please.
I watch my neighbor’s son play with his shotgun in the street.
I think I’ll blaze all day and marvel at the mass of food I eat.
It’s strange; I’m skinny when I’m standing but I’m Buddha when I sit,
and if I’m truly so enlightened why’d I waste your time on it
as I look back at all these crossroads and the middle where I stay,
right up the beaten path to boredom where the fakest ****s get laid
by the faux-finest finds It’s been that way and god damn you,
how you stay, with every scummy, crummy hour of the scummy, crummy day. [/i]

I like The All-American Rejects even though their lyrics are kind of stupid, just because it's so da[color=white]mn[/color] catchy.

Konrad that is awesome, i finished DL'ing the song right as you edited in the lyrics. I like it alot!!

Yeah so hum... I have two thing I would like to say:

1- Bright Eyes is alright, I like them. Period. I like the way the guy writes, I wish I could get some booty for writing beatiful things. I could, but I'd be bashed here as everyone here seem to dig REALLY HEAVY SONGWRITING.

...

Just kidding I love you guys continue destroying my pieces as you have in the past. :-*

As for the thesaurus thing, It's good (a little late for that but yeah I wasn't yesterday around, school trip yeah I bought Opeth Lamentations n_n) Anyhow, as for the thesaurus thing again, lol I lost my train of thought, I use it seldomly, just to add up to something I want to say, in fewer words, but has been said somewhere before me, reading actually improves a lot your skill while writing, not necessarily something poetinc, just any vocabulary suits in anything if well used.

Yeah opinions.

I just got back from Bright Eyes with David Dondero and Willy Mason. Seriously, if it wasnt for all the angst-suffocated teens, it might have been the best concert ive been to. well, maybe not, but it would have been up there.

[QUOTE=ITRIEDVOODOOONCE]Konrad that is awesome, i finished DL'ing the song right as you edited in the lyrics. I like it alot!![/QUOTE]
I love how people confuse me and metaliq. We are one...

[QUOTE=ITRIEDVOODOOONCE]Konrad that is awesome, i finished DL'ing the song right as you edited in the lyrics. I like it alot!![/QUOTE]

Thanks.

You know... I dont mind if you call me Konrad. Kinda flatured.

[QUOTE=xKONRADx]I just got back from Bright Eyes with David Dondero and Willy Mason. Seriously, if it wasnt for all the angst-suffocated teens, it might have been the best concert ive been to. well, maybe not, but it would have been up there.[/QUOTE]

Haha. Everyone looked the same, right?

That happens to me a lot when I go to concerts, but scene girls tend to think I am cute and talk to me. It's odd. I'm not scene.