Thanks for actually getting back on topic. This thread can obviously work if certain people quit being so uptight and post like they're supposed to.

[QUOTE]his thread can obviously work if certain people quit being so uptight [/QUOTE] haha..



but yeah... Joshmay should post here more often...I love his writing

Considering that maybe I'm one of the few "new regulars" on S&L, would it be too bad of an idea to bring the wall back for some time? I see a lot of people here that just come and give nothing back, or crit rather poorly.

On another note, why am I trying to break the conventionalism here on S&L? I get good crits, I give a lot of crits, but for some reason, I'm never happy. I always wnat this community to develop something in some form. Maybe I should just quit this ordeal and well... just be a silent writer/critic just following the default rules. I'm going to philosophical here.

That was a suggestion about the wall, ok. I'm off to critique some...

[QUOTE=TojesDoLan]Considering that maybe I'm one of the few "new regulars" on S&L, would it be too bad of an idea to bring the wall back for some time? I see a lot of people here that just come and give nothing back, or crit rather poorly.

On another note, why am I trying to break the conventionalism here on S&L? I get good crits, I give a lot of crits, but for some reason, I'm never happy. I always wnat this community to develop something in some form. Maybe I should just quit this ordeal and well... just be a silent writer/critic just following the default rules. I'm going to philosophical here.

That was a suggestion about the wall, ok. I'm off to critique some...[/QUOTE]
I used to run it, but without a sticky it was sort of useless and as is this place has a lot of stickies. A lot of people also got added and never got hurt by it because no one really read it. The regs know who the bad users are and the n00bs don't seem to care. That said, if it were stickied in place of another sticky for awhile to try that out, I don't see that it'd be a problem. Even better would be a thread with "The Wall" in the first post, and a problems thread below that. That's my opinion on it at least.

[QUOTE=zeppelinfan2k3]I used to run it, but without a sticky it was sort of useless and as is this place has a lot of stickies. A lot of people also got added and never got hurt by it because no one really read it. The regs know who the bad users are and the n00bs don't seem to care. That said, if it were stickied in place of another sticky for awhile to try that out, I don't see that it'd be a problem. Even better would be a thread with "The Wall" in the first post, and a problems thread below that. That's my opinion on it at least.[/QUOTE]
Well, actually, "S&L file send thread" Should have been killed a while ago, and the "top 20 amateur list" is also a big flunk, it's not used, I tried to revive it and only Archimedes wanted to play along., Songwriting and poetry 101 is another thread that flunked because of stupidity/immaturity/NOT READING THE RULES... that makes 3 stickies with no use, at any rate. so asking for three de-stickiments, against one sticky, I guess it shouldn't be a problem.

I think taht there are some reall big time deep issues in this community, and they're just getting patched/fixed, but not taken care of from the roots themselves of the problem. It's rather horrible to see how I crit a trillion songs, and the kids just get a good crit pointing out issues, but with a objective view on it, and run away scared of the badness of their songs. Then, there are the insistant(is that the word?) people who get the big name thread tha just make you turn them down before you even read them, and... well. It just goes on and on and on. But apparently, neither we are listened, and this is no democracy, so we can only expect that people change. By themselves. Under no pressure. :(

We've discussed this. We discussed it months ago. We discussed it years ago. It's not a fixable problem, because there simply are too many random new people coming in to get their songs critted and leaving (and not enough regulars) to fix it.

In other words, S&L has always been like that, believe it or not.

[QUOTE=SubtleDagger]We've discussed this. We discussed it months ago. We discussed it years ago. It's not a fixable problem, because there simply are too many random new people coming in to get their songs critted and leaving (and not enough regulars) to fix it.

In other words, S&L has always been like that, believe it or not.[/QUOTE]

I'm actually in agreement with you about this. The main problem with S&L is the lack of regular members. There's you and D, APS,RollerQueen, Sloth, DopedDog, IronWeed,Zepplinfan,Tojes,Cybergasm, DiscoDragon, Bowl of Oranges and some others that i've forgotten(sorry). Compare that to the guitar forum and it's a relatively small list.

The only way that things will improve is if new posters in S&L recieve no crits until they've critted a few themselves,and that seems pretty harsh. We could try posting in their threads with a promise to crit their work if they do a few first, and reasonably in depth. I crit verse by verse, but that's only my preference because i like working that way. Crits that are a paragraph or so are fine if they give strong and weak points, RollerQueen's crits are very good and in this style.

I don't know if all the regulars agree to this system of promising crits in return for a bit of evidence of good userness(i know it's not a word), but if they do then this may solve the problem. The people who come on and give three word crits and expect a deconstruction of their stuff would either change their ways or leave. Either would be good for S&L.

Just my two cents(or pennies, meh). If you all think it's a good idea then Post your support, and we can get started trying the idea out right away.
:wave:

I think the best way to get regulars is this: you find someone whose songs you like. This can be difficult, actually very difficult with new people. Once you find that person, encourage them to write, tell them what could be fixed and what they did well, tell them to write more songs or enter in LC, push them to come here more often. That's how we get regulars, they get critted and encouraged.

[QUOTE=SubtleDagger]I think the best way to get regulars is this: you find someone whose songs you like. This can be difficult, actually very difficult with new people. Once you find that person, encourage them to write, tell them what could be fixed and what they did well, tell them to write more songs or enter in LC, push them to come here more often. That's how we get regulars, they get critted and encouraged.[/QUOTE]

It is a good idea, but it's also very hard because finding someone who posts more than once is part of the problem. Some people, and i'm sure you've seen this, post one song, get a few crits and never return, despite good things being said about their writing.

Also, like you said, finding good new writers is pretty hard. IMO writing is as much about practice as it is about talent, but some people see" this isn't very good" type comments and take it as sign to give up writing. It's a bit of a self perpetuating problem because you can't give people the advice needed to improve incase they never come back, but if you don't then they never improve and you eventually have to tell them they suck, and then they never come back anyway.

I'll try my best to strike a balance in my critiques(which will be more frequent soon) between incouragement and criticism. It's the best any of us can do about it, i think.

Unfortunately, I agree.

Well, yes. I beleive that because I've lived that. I make around 10-15 crits per week (without trying to impress or anything) But no matter how much I take my time to review, the possibilities of their return (especially those who say "it's my first song" or "please crit lol") are slim to none.

There's like, a possibilty of un-stickying the threads I mentioned Burt? You know. For cleanliness sakes.

hey, im planning on doing covers of acoustic songs for a cd that i am going to send to my girlfriend in spain. this is what ive got done so far:

the tide - the spill canvas
bleeder - alkaline trio (as performed by HWM)
You? Will. - bright eyes
razor - foo fighters
blue in the face - alkaline trio


i need some help selcting some extra songs to put on it, the reason i post here is because i dont really care about genre (except that its acoustic) but about lyrical content. and because i know most of you. anyway... suggest away.

Opeth - face of melinda, harvest
Incubus - stellar
Anything by Al di Meola (maybe la Malagueña or Elegan gypsy, the same thing)
Box car racer - there is
Pink floyd - wish you were here
Mason williams - classical gas
foo fighters - best of you (play it acoustic it won't hurt you), next year.
The mars volta - tira me a las arañas
opeth - patterns in the ivy
weezer - butterfly

This is technically off limits, but if you want a piece of advice... The lyrics on the most of those touch me emotionally so I guess you could use them very well. What's the purpose of sending the CD, anyway?

Oh yes, and just a reminder: You can't be random around here anymore, you have to stay on topic (Songwriting and lyrics) as much as syou can, try to keep this kinds of post to the minimum. New Rules. Anyhow...

[QUOTE]Pink floyd - wish you were here[/QUOTE] heck yes!
Personally I would play ---Out Loud by Dispatch.. I just really like that song.. Other than that, it seems like your taste in music differs slightly from mine..so that's all I've got
good luck :thumb:

Hey, I just posted a song.

For the first time in months.

It's an event.

I know, and I didn't get it. :confused:

Ihate my ignorance so bad right now... :upset:

[QUOTE=TojesDoLan]Opeth - face of melinda, harvest
Incubus - stellar
Anything by Al di Meola (maybe la Malagueña or Elegan gypsy, the same thing)
Box car racer - there is
Pink floyd - wish you were here
Mason williams - classical gas
foo fighters - best of you (play it acoustic it won't hurt you), next year.
The mars volta - tira me a las arañas
opeth - patterns in the ivy
weezer - butterfly

This is technically off limits, but if you want a piece of advice... The lyrics on the most of those touch me emotionally so I guess you could use them very well. What's the purpose of sending the CD, anyway?

Oh yes, and just a reminder: You can't be random around here anymore, you have to stay on topic (Songwriting and lyrics) as much as syou can, try to keep this kinds of post to the minimum. New Rules. Anyhow...[/QUOTE]
He was on topic, he was saying he was looking for good songs to cover that are written well. You can actually discuss most musical things and still be fine by me. Just don't start talking about trivial stuff you did with your day or anything.

Burt (or any other moderator) please, if you see this post, unsticky the Amateur list, flie transfer thread and songwriting and poetry 101.

The first one hasn't been used in a long time, I tried to revive it but I got no one to play along. The second one is pretty much illegal and un-used since a long time, and the last one just isn't being used correctly.

Thanks.

wow..with those threads unstickiedededededed, the forums looks a lot more neat and clean.. I appreciate that mr Mod

To any Mod(or anyone else that wants to comment)


I just had a thought. We could have a useful links thread with links to the lyric game thing, the short story thread, the critiquing guidelines thread etc. It could be stickied and would keep the number of stickies down. A mod could add the appropriate links( i could hunt them down for you if it would save you some time) and any new ones that seem needed. It means that we would only really need one sticky.

What do you think?

Sounds good. Not the community thread, that needs its own sticky.

But for the SONGWRITING and LYRICS forum, that would be a dandy idea and easy place to find the threads.

You mean like a Old stickies/Useful links thread?

Yeah, that'd do. :D

But I don't really know, let's wait for a while to have like, 22 songs in the first page and then we can get another sticky. :D

I seem to :D a lot lately. BTW I'm reading the marquee of sade... wow. That dude was a real psychopath of sexuallity. I think I'll be writing something for the short stories thread some time soon, so wait for it.

I wouldn't argue against that thread idea :thumb:

It would only get rid of one sticky, and the other threads you mentioned aren't really important at all.

I'd like to petition getting BMXFelon420 banned.

[QUOTE=A_Perfect_Sonnet]I'd like to petition getting BMXFelon420 banned.[/QUOTE]

Seconded

Burt or any other mod, isn't there a way to encourage people and help the regulars and other users by handing out some rep for good crits/good advise?

That'd only benefit myself and a few other users, like Sloth or people of the kind, but it'd be cool nonetheless. You know, get the job done... Maybe it's just rep whoring, but I lost nothing for asking.

I could do it.

Hey, not to inturuped yous guys conversation, but today, I preformed for the first time! I cant believe it, We practiced 2 times then got in front of my school and preformed! That is the best feeling in the whole world!
And besides that, I made a website for us (GreenInk.piczo.com-me and shawna: being the band)I havent put our lyrics up yet, One being called "Mr. Condom", a punk rock song. I think its funny, but anyway I am getting side tracked. I am still insanely nerves! I was shaking so bad it was like convulsions! lol, Later I will post the Mr. Condom song,it needs to be revised and stuff,so I will see what you think... ok, you can go back to your conversation, I'm done taking your time, ~ Jade

[QUOTE=jade858907]Hey, not to inturuped yous guys conversation, but today, I preformed for the first time! I cant believe it, We practiced 2 times then got in front of my school and preformed! That is the best feeling in the whole world!
And besides that, I made a website for us (GreenInk.piczo.com-me and shawna: being the band)I havent put our lyrics up yet, One being called "Mr. Condom", a punk rock song. I think its funny, but anyway I am getting side tracked. I am still insanely nerves! I was shaking so bad it was like convulsions! lol, Later I will post the Mr. Condom song,it needs to be revised and stuff,so I will see what you think... ok, you can go back to your conversation, I'm done taking your time, ~ Jade[/QUOTE]


One more gig than i've had dammit! :p

Well done. Your post also reminds me to crit your song.

plus hey :wave:

Moz and Tojes: That could be useful. It may encourage people to give good crits and not mess about if they know they are going to get rep for good input. Great idea IMO :thumb: