[QUOTE=Cathedral]Most people I know say that the song Dirge For November is boring but I love it![/QUOTE]

Dirge for November is one of my favorite Opeth songs.

I agree with the consistancy thing. Still Life is more consistant. Blackwater park does have some slightly better songs on it though (Some of Opeth's best; Leper Affinity, Bleak, Harvest, Drapery Falls) but the rest of the stuff isn't anywhere near as good IMO. Still Life does have some amazing moments though, I'd say it's the best Opeth album.

When I listen to My Arms, Your hearse now though, I hear an almost consistantly inferior version of Still Life. Which isn't necesserally a bad thing, cos I honestly think it's actually a good album now, just never quite being a masterpiece.

Still Life and onward > before Still life

[QUOTE=Treebeard]Still Life and onward > before Still life[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. IMO It's predecessors lacked in the songwriting department.

Uhh... what? That's sheer idiocy.

IMO, it goes in this order:

My Arms Your Hearse > Still Life > Morningrise > Deliverence > Damnation > Blackwater Park > Orchid > Ghost Reveries

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]Uhh... what? That's sheer idiocy.

IMO, it goes in this order:

My Arms Your Hearse > Still Life > Morningrise > Deliverence > Damnation > Blackwater Park > Orchid > Ghost Reveries[/QUOTE]
It's not idocy, it just depends what you look for in the band. I prefer Still Life and on to pre SL also. But I love it all, as I've said before.

It really ISN'T idiocy. Pre SL songs lacked any sort of structure...it was just a bunch of different riffs jammed together.

[QUOTE=Shattered_Future]It really ISN'T idiocy. Pre SL songs lacked any sort of structure...it was just a bunch of different riffs jammed together.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, the newer stuff has hardly any actual structure for the most part either, just certain songs, and for the most part those songs are on [I]Damnation[/I].

Morningrise owns every other Opeth album.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]I disagree, the newer stuff has hardly any actual structure for the most part either, just certain songs, and for the most part those songs are on [I]Damnation[/I].[/QUOTE]

What? The songs are way more structured on the newer releases, the way they return to previously played riffs, or verses. The stuff on the older albums really did have no structure, it was just stuff put together, but it still worked for that style of music.

[QUOTE=UpperDecker]Morningrise owns every other Opeth album.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, well, that comes down to opinion.

[QUOTE=Dunkelheit509]What? The songs are way more structured on the newer releases, the way they return to previously played riffs, or verses. The stuff on the older albums really did have no structure, it was just stuff put together, but it still worked for that style of music.[/QUOTE]

I concur. And D&D are now my favourite Opeth albums!!!

[QUOTE=Dunkelheit509]What? The songs are way more structured on the newer releases, the way they return to previously played riffs, or verses. The stuff on the older albums really did have no structure, it was just stuff put together, but it still worked for that style of music.[/QUOTE]

Yet if you compare it to something like, oh say Linkin Park, it's a lot less structured, is it not?

A lot of progressive stuff isn't structured at all, and that's what gives it its beauty, the songs progress from one part to a whole new section. It's not just a bunch of cool sounding riffs thrown together, it actually flows well, does it not?

Underoath's first two albums were a lot like that too, to say that their newer stuff is better because it's, "more structured," would be a crime.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]Yet if you compare it to something like, oh say Linkin Park, it's a lot less structured, is it not?

A lot of progressive stuff isn't structured at all, and that's what gives it its beauty, the songs progress from one part to a whole new section. It's not just a bunch of cool sounding riffs thrown together, it actually flows well, does it not?

Underoath's first two albums were a lot like that too, to say that their newer stuff is better because it's, "more structured," would be a crime.[/QUOTE]

But the structure is not the only reason I prefer the newer stuff. They have generally IMO improved their sound and have evolved more as musicians. And by structured, it doesn't necesserily have to be Linkin Park's Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus. I prefer some structure in songs and generally I feel that the earlier stuff is two stop starty for my taste. Thus Morningrise is my least favourite album. (I do not have Orchid yet but I have some songs from it.)

I guess what's being... said here is that around... pre My arms, your hearse, the songs flowed from a riff to another like just copied-pasted after the other. Black Rose Immortal is a great example of that. The song is like a bunch of songs put together into one massive song. Not exactly bad or anything like that, it just seems like they have really found a way to make it "progress" into the next section, more than just putting unconnected riffs one over the other.

However, Ghost Reveries was D&D minus the double package. It contains both the soft/mellow side and the heavy side, all in one package, but for some reason it just doesn't feel very well together.

...

Oh yes and Still life drags in the acoustic parts. :eek:

There I said it.

[QUOTE=TojesDoLan]

Oh yes and Still life drags in the acoustic parts. :eek:

There I said it.[/QUOTE]

:amaze:

How dare thee!!!

[QUOTE=JamJar]I concur. And D&D are now my favourite Opeth albums!!![/QUOTE]
While they are both very solid, they don't compare to Blackwater Park and Still Life if you ask me.

And if I had to pick between Deliverance and Damnation, I'd probably go with Damnation.

[QUOTE=JamJar]But the structure is not the only reason I prefer the newer stuff. They have generally IMO improved their sound and have evolved more as musicians. And by structured, it doesn't necesserily have to be Linkin Park's Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Bridge/Chorus. I prefer some structure in songs and generally I feel that the earlier stuff is two stop starty for my taste. Thus Morningrise is my least favourite album. (I do not have Orchid yet but I have some songs from it.)[/QUOTE]

Blah, I think the newer stuff is better than Orchid, but I think [I]My Arms, Your Hearse[/I] and [I]Morningrise[/I]are masterpieces.

[QUOTE=JamJar]:amaze:

How dare thee!!![/QUOTE]
I don't know. I'm not particularly in love with the acoustic parts in "the Moor" and some other assorted acoustic parts. They are just way too much.

However, I enjoyed the little acoustic parts such as... the one in "karma". Short, amazing, to the point. Yep. Probably the song length had something to do.

[QUOTE=TojesDoLan]I don't know. I'm not particularly in love with the acoustic parts in "the Moor" and some other assorted acoustic parts. They are just way too much.

However, I enjoyed the little acoustic parts such as... the one in "karma". Short, amazing, to the point. Yep. Probably the song length had something to do.[/QUOTE]
How many people have told you that your avatar is slightly disturbing?:)

And I'll agree that the opening two or so minutes to "The Moor" is a great way to open the album right before the heaviness kicks in. That's got to be one of Opeth's best songs of all time.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]Yet if you compare it to something like, oh say Linkin Park, it's a lot less structured, is it not?

A lot of progressive stuff isn't structured at all, and that's what gives it its beauty, the songs progress from one part to a whole new section. It's not just a bunch of cool sounding riffs thrown together, it actually flows well, does it not?

Underoath's first two albums were a lot like that too, to say that their newer stuff is better because it's, "more structured," would be a crime.[/QUOTE]

Actually, there are some parts on Orchid that I find don't flow very well, where as you would almost never find that on SL or BWP. Linkin Park is formuletic (verse, chorus, etc.) and repetitive, where as the later Opeth, while still holding on to the main structure of a song, is still able to venture outside the box and explore new sounds all within one song, while still making it fit, and have meening in the song. This is done well with songs like "The Drapery Falls" where the song starts off formuletic, but instead of just returning to the chorus after the solo, it goes into a completly new direction that still flows perfectly, then it returns to the sound displayed earlier in the song, then fades away with the intro riff. That's an example of what I meen by "structured". There are songs that are much different then this obviously. Dirge for November comes to mind, and I think the reason I (and seemingly many others) don't like it as much as the rest of BWP, is because it doesn't flow as nicely, as say, Bleak. Bleak has a structure, it's just a different structure then that is shown throughout the rest of the album, but still flows very well. (I still hate Steves vocals in that song though :p )

I hope this made sense, it's kind of hard to explain what I have in mind.

[QUOTE=Eleventeen]

A lot of progressive stuff isn't structured at all, and that's what gives it its beauty, the songs progress from one part to a whole new section. [/QUOTE]

It usually is structured, but the structure is much more complex and harder to get a grasp of. I wouldn't say that their earlier stuff isn't structured either. I just finished listening to Under the Weeping Moon, and IMO it's one of their best structured songs. The parts lead into each other, and there is a continuity in the atmosphere of the song that ties it together very well. Other than that, it's just become my favourite Opeth song. The soundscape Mikael creates in the middle is stunning :eek:

I realized that I think I like Opeth's first 4 better than the newest 4. The old stuff just has this amazing atmosphere combined with emotional guitar work and clean vocals... just outstanding. They never quite captured the beauty of Morningrise and MAYH (my 2 fav Opeth albums) again. Still, I'm not going to rag on BWP or Deliverance & Damnation... those are fantastic albums too. BWP is probably my favorite of the bunch at the moment. I'm just tired of Deliverance because I over-listened to it, and also it lacks the atmospherics of the other albums.. don't get me wrong, I love it, but it's kind of... empty sounding, sometimes. Damnation is beautiful, and Ghost Reveries is by far their worst album, though it does have a few of their very best songs, actually. I just think it's impossible for songs like R/HF and TGC to be compared seriously to amazing works of art like When or The Moor.

[QUOTE=Thor]How many people have told you that your avatar is slightly disturbing?:)

And I'll agree that the opening two or so minutes to "The Moor" is a great way to open the album right before the heaviness kicks in. That's got to be one of Opeth's best songs of all time.[/QUOTE]
I think I've gotten two or three this week. :p

Anyhow, the intro to the Moor is fantastic, in my opinion. The middle section after "there is no forgiveness..." is what bugs me a bit. Other than that the song is awesome.

On a side note, I like the structure in some Damnations songs... Especially Windowpane. It's suppsoed to end when the first riff is repeated, but all of the sudden, Mikael starts singing again, for what it'd be the third verse. There's the "unpredictability" factor in most Opeth, however, it just seemed much more evident afterwards.

[QUOTE=Cathedral]Most people I know say that the song Dirge For November is boring but I love it![/QUOTE]

The beginning is one of the high points of the CD for me, but the rest of the song is average. For BWP standards, at least. ;)

[QUOTE=ok lateralus]I realized that I think I like Opeth's first 4 better than the newest 4. The old stuff just has this amazing atmosphere combined with emotional guitar work and clean vocals... just outstanding. They never quite captured the beauty of Morningrise and MAYH (my 2 fav Opeth albums) again. Still, I'm not going to rag on BWP or Deliverance & Damnation... those are fantastic albums too. BWP is probably my favorite of the bunch at the moment. I'm just tired of Deliverance because I over-listened to it, and also it lacks the atmospherics of the other albums.. don't get me wrong, I love it, but it's kind of... empty sounding, sometimes. Damnation is beautiful, and Ghost Reveries is by far their worst album, though it does have a few of their very best songs, actually. I just think it's impossible for songs like R/HF and TGC to be compared seriously to amazing works of art like When or The Moor.[/QUOTE]



Well said.

[QUOTE=UpperDecker]Morningrise owns every other Opeth album.[/QUOTE]

It's my second least favourite Opeth album. Orchid is far better. I'd make an argument for the lastest four albums, but everyone probably knows how it'd go.

On a random note, how awesome is that part in In Mist She Was Standing where he screams "It will fade awayyyyyyy aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh". I freakin love that part. He sound so damn evil.

[QUOTE=UpperDecker]On a random note, how awesome is that part in In Mist She Was Standing where he screams "It will fade awayyyyyyy aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh". I freakin love that part. He sound so damn evil.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, true, that part kicks ***.

.... but not as much as the outro! Hah, just had to throw that in there for like the millionth time in this thread

UpperDecker, Morningrise owns all other Opeth albums? No way. I actually find that to be their weakest release actually. Here's how it breaks down for me:

Blackwater Park > Still Life > Damnation > Ghost Reveries > My Arms Your Hearse > Deliverance > Orchid > Morningrise

On another note: is the DVD worth getting?

^ Yes, if you like Damnation. They play all of it, plus Harvest, then they play 5 of the heavier songs. It's pretty good. The documentry is pretty good also, you will like Deliverance more after seeing it.