You're taking it too literally. You used the line "they have a record deal" as an argument not to say they're crap. Plenty of bad bands have had, and do have, record deals. It's a perfectly valid comparison.

[QUOTE=Bartender]You're taking it too literally. You used the line "they have a record deal" as an argument not to say they're crap. Plenty of bad bands have had, and do have, record deals. It's a perfectly valid comparison.[/QUOTE]
I don't think so... but my main point was defending a band I like because that's my opinion. Then this guy says shut up that band sucks while using [I]his [/I] opinion as an argument. Using the same example in different words to further your argument is a fallacy (Britney Spears)... it's like saying "your chocolate cake is not cake because my vanilla one is" if that makes sense... He's also assuming that the credibility of britney spears as an artist is poor but how does he really know? Not all pop stars are Idiots... but i think he might be right on the assumption that Ms. Spears is an airhead. :D

First, [i]forget[/i] that he mentioned Britney Spears by name. It's just an example to illustrate a point, so don't appeal to facts specific to her.

You might want to try again formulating "it's like saying "your chocolate cake is not cake because my vanilla one is" if that makes sense", because I have no idea what you mean :)

[QUOTE=Davio El Dwarfo]Taking Back Sunday are the best emo band out there. I love how they express so much emotion through three chord pop punk and screaming.[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of it has to do with the vocals. That's usually people's first impression of a band... it's sad but not a lot of people really listen to the music as anything but background music :(

I was actually kidding, but yeah - it's generally musicians that pick up on how genuinely good a band is.

I don't like TBS's vocals much, but they write catchy tunes. That's a skill in itself.

[QUOTE=Bartender]First, [i]forget[/i] that he mentioned Britney Spears by name. It's just an example to illustrate a point, so don't appeal to facts specific to her.

You might want to try again formulating "it's like saying "your chocolate cake is not cake because my vanilla one is" if that makes sense", because I have no idea what you mean :)[/QUOTE]
haha ok. He's using an [I]artist[/I] he thinks sucks in comparison to my argument about record deals, but he's making the same argument as me and assuming that everyone can relate to the fact that they suck. I'm not saying that argument is wrong really but logically it doesn't make sense. Going back to my cake to help you make sense of it. He's trying to make my cake sound like it's bad by using an other cake that is also bad as an example. I'm sorry for the confusion about it... it was really tough explaining in words my logic.. it may still not make sense, which is no big deal I don't really care anymore... Taking back Sunday is a great band and nobody is going to tell me otherwise, that's my opinion and i'm entitled to it.

[QUOTE=Davio El Dwarfo]I was actually kidding, but yeah - it's generally musicians that pick up on how genuinely good a band is.

I don't like TBS's vocals much, but they write catchy tunes. That's a skill in itself.[/QUOTE]
Yeah exactly... I personally like Taking Back Sunday's vocals but that's just me... possibly their fans... a few others.. :D

I've no problem with their vocals either.

Here's a new topic because I'm sick of talking about taking back sunday. I really like the used, hence my avitar. They're my main fluence and i can't get enough of their music. I saw them at the wiltern in October and they were AWESOME

[QUOTE=Nick Morzov]haha ok. He's using an [I]artist[/I] he thinks sucks in comparison to my argument about record deals, but he's making the same argument as me and assuming that everyone can relate to the fact that they suck.[/QUOTE]

The specific proper noun is just an example, though, rather than specifying whatever variable is being talked about.

[QUOTE=Morzov]I'm not saying that argument is wrong really but logically it doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]

Logically is the way it does make sense..you said that he (or cb, or whoever it was) couldn't say they were bad, because they have a record deal, and he pointed out that it's possible for a bad band to have a record deal, and so it doesn't logically follow that having a record deal implies a good band. It's a classic counterexample argument.

[QUOTE=Morzov]Going back to my cake to help you make sense of it. He's trying to make my cake sound like it's bad by using an other cake that is also bad as an example.[/QUOTE]

His argument wasn't a standalone thing of "X has a record deal, and X is bad, therefore record deal = bad", it was a response to your contention that record deal = good. He was saying that having a record deal doesn't mean they're good, not that it means they [i]are[/i] bad. Important difference.

[QUOTE=Morzov]Taking back Sunday is a great band and nobody is going to tell me otherwise, that's my opinion and i'm entitled to it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, practically everything on a forum with a topic such as music is going to be opinion. But to back out of or attempt to end every discussion or argument with "well it's just my opinion"..well, it's a cop-out, so to speak.

[QUOTE=Bartender]The specific proper noun is just an example, though, rather than specifying whatever variable is being talked about.



Logically is the way it does make sense..you said that he (or cb, or whoever it was) couldn't say they were bad, because they have a record deal, and he pointed out that it's possible for a bad band to have a record deal, and so it doesn't logically follow that having a record deal implies a good band. It's a classic counterexample argument.



His argument wasn't a standalone thing of "X has a record deal, and X is bad, therefore record deal = bad", it was a response to your contention that record deal = good. He was saying that having a record deal doesn't mean they're good, not that it means they [i]are[/i] bad. Important difference.



Yeah, practically everything on a forum with a topic such as music is going to be opinion. But to back out of or attempt to end every discussion or argument with "well it's just my opinion"..well, it's a cop-out, so to speak.[/QUOTE]
thats really what it comes down to though... plus i didn't really want to get into an argument about how he thinks the music i like sucks... i really don't give a ****... what irritates me is he's attacking something that defines me as an individual and when people see that they're hesitant to post THEIR own opinion... especially if he's a mod. My argument with the record deal was it's tough to get a record deal regardless of the signin company. It requres time dedication and SOME skill. Even if pop stars do get record deals there are still reasons why they have them and it's not because people don't like their music. Most pop stars are products of high end producers who want a lot of money. I'm not sure how it went but when a producer came across britney spears or any pop star out there for that matter they didn't see too much talent, whereas Taking Back Sunday... I don't think the producer saw them and instantly there were money signs in his eyes... understand my argument was fairly general though.

[QUOTE=RetiredAt21]Taking Back Sunday isn't all that bad. There is far worse out there DFelon204409...if you disagree, then I guess that means you'd rather listen to stuff like: Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, etc...[/QUOTE]

NO STOP WRONG SHUT UP FAGGOT

"if you disagree, then I guess that means you'd rather..." No, shut up right there. You do NOT start making assumptions about someone else's music preferences just because they don't like your favorite pop-punk-but-everyone-calls-them-emo band. This is the equivalent of comparing someone to Hitler in a political debate; you don't bring up boy bands just for the sake of trying to make your musical taste appear superior. DFelon has mentioned the bands he likes thousands of times in this forum, and they all display a degree of skill and creativity more prevalent than Taking Back Sunday.

...unless that post was just some sort of joke. It's hard to tell on the Internet, so I'll have to assume the worst.

[QUOTE=YDload]NO STOP WRONG SHUT UP FAGGOT

"if you disagree, then I guess that means you'd rather..." No, shut up right there. You do NOT start making assumptions about someone else's music preferences just because they don't like your favorite pop-punk-but-everyone-calls-them-emo band. This is the equivalent of comparing someone to Hitler in a political debate; you don't bring up boy bands just for the sake of trying to make your musical taste appear superior. DFelon has mentioned the bands he likes thousands of times in this forum, and they all display a degree of skill and creativity more prevalent than Taking Back Sunday.

...unless that post was just some sort of joke. It's hard to tell on the Internet, so I'll have to assume the worst.[/QUOTE]
Holy CRAP i don't even really like them THAT much, i was just trying to prove a point that not everyone has to like hardcore to be cool. That was a poor assumption on his part, but try and have a little more class when you make a point... don't sound so angry or use vulgarities like "faggot" when you make statements. That has nothing to do with music at all so leave gender identities out of it. It'll make you look a lot better too. Let's end this on a nice note because i don't want this to sound like I'm angry with you. What instrument do you play?

i like tbs, but i think you're in over your head. just stop. and for the record, the used are terrible.

[QUOTE=corycamefalling]i like tbs, but i think you're in over your head. just stop. and for the record, the used are terrible.[/QUOTE]
How is this any of your business? If you don't like reading my posts then block me. Congradulations on kissing the *** of the mod... did it taste good? :naughty:

And as for the comment about the used:

(_)_)========D~~

-suck it

I thought you didn't like vulgarities. :rolleyes:

did you feel left out?

(_)_)=======D~~

[QUOTE=Nick Morzov]Holy CRAP i don't even really like them THAT much, i was just trying to prove a point that not everyone has to like hardcore to be cool... [/QUOTE]

Don't you think it might help in a Hardcore forum?

[QUOTE=Bartender]Don't you think it might help in a Hardcore forum?[/QUOTE]
Only if you're concerned with reputation.

Underoath rules
 

[QUOTE=AKid2]Anybody here like Underoath? I think they are pretty sweet.[/QUOTE]
I love underoath,They're awesome!!!

[QUOTE=Nick Morzov]Only if you're concerned with reputation*.[/QUOTE]

*Not looking like an idiot.

It makes no sense to go into a hardcore/emo forum if you don't like either genre.

The Used are the O-Town of Pop-punk.

[QUOTE=BleedthesKY]*Not looking like an idiot.

It makes no sense to go into a hardcore/emo forum if you don't like either genre.[/QUOTE]
I do like both genre's I just don't care about my rep. Would you like me to draw you a picture?

(_)_)========D~~~

does that help?

[QUOTE=pixiesfanyo]The Used are the O-Town of Pop-punk.[/QUOTE]
was that supposed to be a compliment or an insult? :confused:

I think the used would fall under screamo... but their lyrics aren't usually about emo topics... so i'm not sure what to think.

[QUOTE=Nick Morzov]I think the used would fall under screamo... but their lyrics aren't usually about emo topics... so i'm not sure what to think.[/QUOTE]


The used are pop-punk. Read the fu[b][i][/i][/b]cking thread.

Yeah. And I'm still not sure why he started talking about reputation.

We can't even rep people anymore, which I think is kind of stupid.

[QUOTE=Nick Morzov]I think the used would fall under screamo... but their lyrics aren't usually about emo topics... so i'm not sure what to think.[/QUOTE]

if only you had any idea what screamo is. you really should just stop, your opinions are obviously not credible. feel free to share them once you've learned a thing or two.

Yeah, just because a band has a singer that screams from time to time, doesn't make them screamo.

C'mon now, suck it? Are you in the Eighth Grade?

What's with this Morov guy's obession with penises?
Freud would say he has issues.

That was, without a doubt, the best verbal schooling I have ever seen.

I think the Used is power-pop.

You're right, maybe I don't know everything there is to know about the genre, but nowhere in there did you give a solid definition of emo/ screamo, (don't compare it to some other band because that would leave it up to interpretation and there'd be confusion in that one). If there is no solid definition to the genre maybe you should poll the members of the forum. What better defines a genre than its fans right? In the event that after all of this the used still don't fall under emo or screamo, I won't stop liking them, but I will back down and apologize for my arguments. Say days ago is a pretty good song as well, also check out pieces mended... As for everyone else, I'm not talking about songs like "all that i've got" or whatever it is you saw on mtv last week... Try listening to the rest of the songs on the cds they're actually pretty good. THE drummer DOES do pop punk beats but at the same time adds flavor and variation. Which makes it easier to listen to. I know there are more hardcore bands out there than the used, but at the same time they are doing what they love and making a d*ckload of money for it... the used are making the music they want to make. I like them. So with that said i'm sorry for generalizing the genre, in tern don't generalize a band like the used... i seriously don't think bert is thinking i need sing in a certain way to keep my band in the pop punk genre... did you ever think that maybe that's just his voice? If you really think the used is that bad of a band... i like the sound... tell me more... what would be a good step up... not a HUGE step but more towards what you would consider respectable?

Thanks [I]and [/I] sorry

Nick

*hug*

[QUOTE=DFelon204409]Giving a solid definition of emo is one of the things I've neglected to do as a mod. As a compensation I have a huge band list for each genre so you can listen and figure out for yourself what makes emo or screamo the way it is. Also, a genre is defined by its fans. Good Charlotte's fans think that they're punk, but Good Charlotte is just a stupid pop band. Their new song even has rapping on top of the pop. It's really weird. The fans don't always know best. Often the bands don't even know what type of music they're making ([url]www.purevolume.com[/url] allows members to label themselves and tons of people who aren't emo/screamo label themselves as such).

I don't care about your thought on The Used. If you like them, yay for you. I've listened to all of their songs and know that they are not a band that interests me. I'm the one having the argument with you because I know what they're about, and it's not good to me. I'm not generalizing anything. In fact, you're the one generlizing by assuming I don't know anything about The Used.[/QUOTE]

i didn't mean you when i said generalizing... i didn't think you were at all, in fact you probably know more about them then i do... anyways what do you mean by "what they're about"? :confused:

I missed the A Day In Black And White concert. I hate life.


Edit: I got the date wrong. I love life and cb.

Are you guys still arguing? Jeez, stop.

I love it when n00bs think they can out-argue DFelon.