[QUOTE=Brad Norris Fan 777;16278056]no, its not societies responsibility to pay for the basic needs of all people, it's the individual's responsibility to pay for their own basic needs[/QUOTE]

funny how so many people DO NOT MAKE THAT TYPE OF MONEY TO MEET A BASIC NEED. Its your society that prevents this. Society is not absolute. Because man compromises society, its in its best interested to sustain all, and not the lucky.

[QUOTE]how would it not be a part of the economy?[/QUOTE]

buy stopping being a business, and start being a social service.

This has nothing to do with doctor's salaries. It has to do with ME paying for **** that has nothing to do with me. And no, I do not have a responsibility to take care of everybody else.

[QUOTE=Brad Norris Fan 777;16278056]no, it's not society's responsibility to pay for the basic needs of all people, it's the individual's responsibility to pay for their own basic needs[/QUOTE]

Damn right

oh my lord brian, you have to be ****ing kidding

hey guys whats free will? NOT A HUMAN RIGHT BECAUSE YOU [B]HAVE TO[/B] SUPPORT CRACKHEADS MEDICAL BILLS

I love how when anyone disagrees with a liberal it either turns into "omg you're a terrible person" or "omg you don't understand how the world really works"

[QUOTE=pate;16278066]This has nothing to do with doctor's salaries. It has to do with ME paying for **** that has nothing to do with me. And no, I do not have a responsibility to take care of everybody else.



Damn right[/QUOTE]

Then stop using the roads, stop using anything the gov't provides. If you don't want to chip in, then don't partake.

[QUOTE=pate;16278077]I love how when anyone disagrees with a liberal it either turns into "omg you're a terrible person" or "omg you don't understand how the world really works"[/QUOTE]

How is this an argument?

[QUOTE=guitrguy;16278078]Then stop using the roads, stop using anything the gov't provides. If you don;t want to chip in, then don't partake.[/QUOTE]

The person paying into those actually benefits from them though.

mappy isn't your mom really ill? what if you couldn't afford treatment or whatever?

[I]guys, what about chuck schuldiner?![/I]

what if she had an illness that there was no ****ing treatment available for anyway and ****ing scumbags found out about it and keep giving her false hope with miracle cures that never work but my dad's willing to pay for those because he's willing to pay for anything to help her?

[QUOTE=masscows;16278081]The person paying into those actually benefits from them though.[/QUOTE]

yeah, and healthy people, and closing the gap between rich and poor also benefits them. maybe not today, but how do think america is going to function when the majority of it will be living like a 3rd world country?

[QUOTE=masscows;16278081]The person paying into those actually benefits from them though.[/QUOTE]
not everyone can pay, not everyone can get insurance. Profit in medicine does not for society. God forbid yo pay more taxes because you can afford it. So sorry you can;t have a 100 million instead of the 50 mill after taxes.

[QUOTE=guitrguy;16278078]
How is this an argument?[/QUOTE]

It's not meant to be, although I'm not paying attention to this debate I will say I have noticed what Lee is saying. Although I don't call myself liberal or conservative mostly because I don't hold true to either much and don't want to be labeled as either.

[QUOTE=pulseczar;16278091]yeah, and healthy people, and closing the gap between rich and poor also benefits them. maybe not today, but how do think america is going to function when the majority of it will be living like a 3rd world country?[/QUOTE]

the thing is that's not happening and it's not gonna happen

[QUOTE=Brad Norris Fan 777;16278089]what if she had an illness that there was no ****ing treatment available for anyway and ****ing scumbags found out about it and keep giving her false hope with miracle cures that never work but my dad's willing to pay for those because he's willing to pay for anything to help her?[/QUOTE]
sounds like a product of profit seeking.

[QUOTE=guitrguy;16278094]not everyone can pay, not everyone can get insurance. Profit in medicine does not for society. God forbid yo pay more taxes because you can afford it. So sorry you can;t have a 100 million instead of the 50 mill after taxes.[/QUOTE]

I probably won't make more than 40-50 grand a year so don't apologize to me.

it's free will, it's horrible, there are scumbags out there taking advantage of my mother's condition for their own gain, but it's their choice and i can't take that from them

just like it's lee's choice and my own not to pay for others' health care

[QUOTE=masscows;16278104]I probably won't make more than 40-50 grand a year so don't apologize to me.[/QUOTE]
You wouldn't be taxed heavily. you;d be taxed to pay your share, and still have sufficient money to live a comfortable life.

[QUOTE=Brad Norris Fan 777;16278106]it's free will, it's horrible, there are scumbags out there taking advantage of my mother's condition for their own gain, but it's their choice and i can't take that from them

just like it's lee's choice and my own not to pay for others' health care[/QUOTE]

you live in society, unless you want to live out the wilderness on your own, you have to give just like you take. Its disgusting to make your moms life an object of profit. Just because the can chose to do it does not mean its good for society.

[QUOTE=guitrguy;16278121]you live in society, unless you want to live out the wilderness on your own, you have to give just like you take. Its disgusting to make your moms life an object of profit. Just because the can chose to do it does not mean its good for society.[/QUOTE]

It's good for society in the same way the KKK is good for free speech.

i know, its crazy how there's bad things and good things in society

:(

[QUOTE=Brad Norris Fan 777;16278131]i know, its crazy how there's bad things and good things in society

:(

it's even crazier that making programs to try and fix those things will put us further in debt and actually cause more issues[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but you really don't understand how socialized medicine would be run. Societal security is more important then uninhibited profit mongering.

Oh yeah the free market can still exist without medicine being in it.

no it can't.

but regardless, socialized medicine goes against free will, and therefor i'm against it.

edit: i realized how stupid that last portion sounded so i edited it out, i understand, i'm just a little ****ing depressed and not thinking straight at the moment what with my ****ing mom being brought up

gwb has already taken a lot of your rights anyway why not let us liberals take some for once

[QUOTE=Brad Norris Fan 777;16278146]no it can't.

but regardless, socialized medicine goes against free will, and therefor i'm against it.

edit: i realized how stupid that last portion sounded so i edited it out, i understand, i'm just a little ****ing depressed and not thinking straight at the moment what with my ****ing mom being brought up[/QUOTE]

uh i didnt bring your mom up for any other reason that there are lots of really ill people that can't afford treatment, trust me i wasn't trying to rub anything in there so i apologize if i did.

no i understand its just ugh

[QUOTE=Brad Norris Fan 777;16278146]no it can't.

but regardless, socialized medicine goes against free will, and therefor i'm against it.

edit: i realized how stupid that last portion sounded so i edited it out, i understand, i'm just a little ****ing depressed and not thinking straight at the moment what with my ****ing mom being brought up[/QUOTE]

Then get out of society. IF you are unwilling to make a sacrifice for others you should not be partaking in the benefits of society.

im glad socialized medicine has been around as long as society

wait, thats not ****ing part of society, its a new idea that some societies have adopted

[QUOTE=Brad Norris Fan 777;16278163]im glad socialized medicine has been around as long as society

wait, thats not ****ing part of society, its a new idea that some societies have adopted[/QUOTE]

I'm talking about any sort of benefit you get. Financial aid for school, the gov't check you get when the main income earner dies, etc. you better stop taking them because you then would be a leach on society. According to your illogic and shortsightedness. The ability to choose to live should be sustained, no one should be forced to die because of selfish ****s like you.

Private practices aren't going to disappear. You could still pay a premium for treatment from a doctor if you want. Using the free will argument is retarded, you would still have just about every choice you have now, minus many of the inherent flaws and disadvantages to those who suffer under the current system.

why is there serious discussio wtffffff