Sputnik Music Forums - Dream Theater

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how does one define "energetic" drum tracks? i listen to portnoy's beats on I&W and i think they're highly energetic.

i think most of the band's energy comes from HIM more than anyone else. and JLB is great on the albums, althouhg he can come off as tired live. but well...try singing 3 hours every night for months at a time. i dont blame them at all.

[QUOTE=jpshortstuff;13456667]
anywho,
does anyoone know who wrote the lyrics for Another Won, and whether they were written especially for Score or have they played it with vox at some other concerts?[/QUOTE]

Probably written by Petrucci, kinda sounds like his style.

And yeah they've played it with vocals before, it's not just for Score.

i didnt know another won was originally an instrumental

[QUOTE=ghettoeddo;13457375]how does one define "energetic" drum tracks? i listen to portnoy's beats on I&W and i think they're highly energetic.

[/QUOTE]

Go listen to The Mars Volta - Cygnus...Vismund Cygnus

[QUOTE=jpshortstuff;13456782]you said yourself that they lacked meaning. i was just throwing the idea that you might try and find a meaning in them out there.[/QUOTE]
Yes but I'm like 100 times a more better musician than you dt knobs so you should trust my judgement.

uh...what gives?

prove it.

i really resent that statement...you can't just assume that anyone who listens to DT is automatically a bad musician.

I'm not saying you're bad musicians, just that I have alot more experience as a musician and alot better techniqual skills. You can sit in your room whacking off to this etudal rubbish all you like. But while you're doing it, the more talented amongst us will be out in the real music world getting paid to play infront of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people per-year across the whole of our lovely sunburnt country.

yea what he said.

so justify your "better musicianship" buddy. you have no idea the level of personal musicianship of any of these people in this thread

[QUOTE=silicon71;13460542]It just makes you seem like a gigantic douchebag tbh.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, what an ***... and "more technical" musician doesn't mean "better".

Dream Theater is solid; they were more-so a gateway band into progressive music for me. I don't really listen to them anymore, but I still respect them.

[QUOTE=Charlie Manson;13459392]Yes but I'm like 100 times a more better musician than you dt knobs so you should trust my judgement.[/QUOTE]

You don't know how each one in this thread plays. Get out of here.

[QUOTE=RockStar;13460749]Plexi you bitch. when are you coming to Brisbane?!?!?! Oh and buy scenes from a memory. It's an unreal DT album.[/QUOTE]
Possibly next year but we'll see. If the tour that includes brisbane goes ahead, it will be around September.

[QUOTE=ghettoeddo;13460600]yea what he said.

so justify your "better musicianship" buddy. you have no idea the level of personal musicianship of any of these people in this thread[/QUOTE]
I have no reason to justify my level of professionalism to you impertinent fools. I did not come to this thread to bash the band, merely to give my recommendation of what to avoid when listening to Dream Theatre. It was only after you're incessant prodding that I elaborated further about my thoughts on the band.

Let me know on msn/email if you are coming up.

[email]completely_flipping_barmey@hotmail.com[/email] is my msn atm

Charlie, dude, just **** off. I respect that you don't like the band, whatever, that's your opinion, but you don't come in here and just bash the band about. You're obviously looking for an argument if you come into the official thread of band, well-knowing that it's full of FANS of the band, and speak **** about them.

And then saying that you're a million times a better musician than us? Dude. That kind of shows what person you are. You havn't heard any of us play, and just because we listen to DT doesn't mean we arn't good musicians. I don't like Indie or Punk too much, but that doesn't mean I'm going to invade their threads, tell them their music sucks, and then tell them I'm a better musician because they don't listen to what [i]I[/i] think is proper "music".

Really, all it comes down to is this:
It's impossible for you to say you're a better musician than us if you havn't heard us play.

Oh, and about Another Won - that was the first song DT ever wrote (back in 1985) so it's not just for SCORE.

**** off charlie manson

thats all i have to say, you dunderhead :chug:

[QUOTE=Inkstar;13461735]Oh, and about Another Won - that was the first song DT ever wrote (back in 1985) so it's not just for SCORE.[/QUOTE]
i was asking if the lyrics were just for Score, i have the instrumental version from 1985. Happy answered my question anyway.

Oh and Charlie, if your claiming that you're a better musician than all of us (which is a bullsh[SIZE="2"]i[/SIZE]t claim right there), and you're one of the 'talented' lot because you're gonna get paid to play infront of 100,000s of fans, then what do you think Dream Theater do? do they not play at any concerts because they don't have any fans. no, they have those 100,000s of fans that only 'talented' musicians have so just quit your "im better than DT and everyone who listens to them by default" act and go bother some other 'talentless band'.

[QUOTE=Charlie Manson;13460512]I'm not saying you're bad musicians, just that I have alot more experience as a musician and alot better techniqual skills. You can sit in your room whacking off to this etudal rubbish all you like. But while you're doing it, the more talented amongst us will be out in the real music world getting paid to play infront of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people per-year across the whole of our lovely sunburnt country.[/QUOTE]
Granted, I'm in a small time band, but I often play small gigs, with other local bands, for crowds of about 30/50 people, and we've only been together (As a performing band), for a few months.

Edit: I don't think bashing Plexi is a smart choice, he has been a sort of semi-DT thread regular for a while now, and it has only been recently (Actually, as far as I remember, wasn't until the previous posts), where he actually got fairly abusive to DT. He's usually quite respectable, and understands that we enjoy DT, I find it refreshing that he comes in occaisonally, he usually gets more discussion going :)

[QUOTE=jpshortstuff;13461762]i was asking if the lyrics were just for Score, i have the instrumental version from 1985. Happy answered my question anyway.[/QUOTE]

Ah k, didn't read right dude. Sorry bout that.

np mate, np.

np: Sacrificed Sons

I like how everyone takes plexi seriously.

I like how everyone takes Dream Theater seriously also.

[QUOTE=Inkstar;13461735]Charlie, dude, just **** off. I respect that you don't like the band, whatever, that's your opinion, but you don't come in here and just bash the band about. You're obviously looking for an argument if you come into the official thread of band, well-knowing that it's full of FANS of the band, and speak **** about them.[/QUOTE]
Look I'm not bashing Dream Theatre. I'm just bashing their singer and their drummer's perfromances on the album "Images and Words."

[QUOTE=Inkstar;13461735]Really, all it comes down to is this:
It's impossible for you to say you're a better musician than us if you havn't heard us play.[/QUOTE]
Hmm the fact that I haven't heard you play is a good indication you've never been in a signed band, have never been a touring solo artists or the like. I realise I come off very arrogant at times, but that's the way it is. In my experience, it is the etudal players who revel in this music.

Once upon a time I was an etudal player, hell when I was 12 I even made a comment that was something like:

"Song lyrics don't matter one bit. The human voice just has pleasing tonal aspects that suit it to carry a melody. If it weren't so tedious, singing the same word over and over again would suffice from a musical standpoint and would not detract from the songs overall appeal."

But as I got older, more mature and a much seasoned musician I realised alot of things about music. When we speak, the words we say gives the listener a precise message. But at the same time, our body language will communicate a non-specific message that supports what we say. This should be the relationship lyrics are to music. The lyrical content is the most important part, it's the precise message. It needs to have phrases which can pinpoint exactly what we are trying to express. The music is just an extension of a body language. It will set the mood of the piece. With the right music, and the right tone of voice, a simple phrase can gain so much meaning. For example, the phrase [I]"Beneath the starry sky I sit and watch and wait"[/I] gives the listener a precise picture of what the lyricist is doing, but it doesn't give the listener any idea of the lyricists frame of mind. With the right instrument mixes, chord progessions and voicings one can alter the meaning of that phrase an infinite number of times. That's the magic of music.

A song is very different from a novel, in the 3 minutes, verses and choruses you have to tell your story completely. This is why the musical setting is so important. If the music paints a mood you don't need to waste precious words in describing the mood of the piece.

In my learned opinion, the musical introduction should be enough to set the mood of the lyricist, and perhaps hint at a setting. A solo acoustic guitar is a good indication of a lonely man, strumming away in his bedroom. If the guitar playing is slightly clumsy, uneven or otherwise 'unproffesional' it's a good indication that the lyricist is stressed, drunk, depressed or otherwise in a 'bad' state of mind. The opening chord progression will determine the mood. A progession can tell the listener if the lyricist is happy of sad. Joyful or mournful. Factors such as tempo and phrasing can further imply moods of boredom, excitement etc. etc.

All these factors can be shared with the audience within the first 5 or 6 seconds, even before the first lyric is spoken. This leaves the lyricist free to tell a detailed story in his limited space without having to waste precious syllables on mood and/or setting. There ought to be clarification in the lyrics from time to time, but never should a lyricist [I]have[/I] to use phrases that directly relate to his mood to convey his mood. He can if they are a nice lyrical addition, but it should be entirely [I]optional[/I].

By now you are probably thinking to yourself, "Where is he going with this?" Well to cut to the chase, I don't see much of this in DT's music. Even though the songs are very lengthy, by the end of the piece I am still very much undecided over the most basic elements of the mood and the setting. I cannot tell if he is excited, if he is fearful. If he is omniscipient or confused etc. etc.

That's just one of my many thought's on this matter, and if I am further pressed by you grubby little plebs I may type them out further. But first, I will give you ample opputunity to refute this.

i am quite happy for you to dislike Dream Theater, especially when you explain you reasoning like you have. i know you have mentioned before why you do not like them.
the only reason i started having a problem with you was when some of your posts started becoming more arrogant; just saying that 'this album is terrible' and so on.
even in your last post (which was, up until the end perfectly reasonable): calling us 'grubby little plebs' because we like this sort of music was just going too far.

even bashing members individual members like the Drummer and Singer is quite outlandish(?) as there are many who admire and model themselves on their styles for their own, perfectly valid reasons, and its not up to you to discard these reasons and say you're right and everyone else who thinks different is an idiot.

as i've said, no one has a problem with you hating DT's music and we are all happy to let you post here with your reasons, but please keep the bashing of band and fans alike out of here.

EDIT: i actually qiute liked you describing how you viewed a song and its lyrical content - i've never looked at songs like that before (im not a lyrical person myself)

see i have no problem with any of what you said except for the fact that you decide to end a nice eloquent argument with "grubby little plebs."

well hello mr. high and mighty i tour and play in front of 100,000 people all the time.

if anything, you could be using your -vast- knowledge and obvious superior musicianship to help other people become more like the great person you are. but rather, you resort to calling those below you "grubby little plebs" and whatever else you threw at us the past few days. if you're looking to teach us something, perhaps you should lose that arrogance or at least tone it down a bit.

no matter how well-phrased your arguments were...statements like that make me unable to take you seriously. and while you may not think my opinion of you matters at all, to be quite honest my opinion of you isn't very high even if you do play in front of large crowds.

The fact that you play infront of alot of people doesn't mean that you're a good musician. I would say 80% of becoming famous is just being in the right place at the right time. Half the pop bands you see out there can barely play to save their lives, and most don't even write their own music. The only reason they're on MTV and playing for all the teeny boppers is because they have good looks, and someone who realises that [b]their image sells[/b]. Half the musicians on this forum could kick the living crap out of those poppy bands in terms of actual playing ability, but hardly anyone on here is famous because of the simple fact that they are unable to get involved with the right connections and people.

You can not tell us that we are bad musicians because we're not famous. That's just a complete load of bull****. For all we know, you could be a very average player, but are only playing in front of audiences because of the reasons I stated above.

Fame does not measure a musician.

[QUOTE=Inkstar;13466772]The fact that you play infront of alot of people doesn't mean that you're a good musician. I would say 80% of becoming famous is just being in the right place at the right time. [/quote]
Haha I'm not exactly famous. I'm very well known in my home state, but certainly not famous. However, I have done some playing in the backing groups for very high profile artists. Regardless of what you think the pop industry's standards are for musicians, they are very high. Sure, I've got loads of gigs from being in the right place at the right time. But when the 'right place' is the at the top of the music food chain, and when the 'right time' is all the time, you've no right to thumb your nose at me. It's very easy to be a heckler, standing in the shadows of the stage calling out "I could have done that, it's just you were lucky." but it's much harder to actually fight your way to the top (which is where all the 'luck' comes to you.)

[QUOTE=Inkstar;13466772]Half the pop bands you see out there can barely play to save their lives, and most don't even write their own music. The only reason they're on MTV and playing for all the teeny boppers is because they have good looks, and someone who realises that [b]their image sells[/b]. Half the musicians on this forum could kick the living crap out of those poppy bands in terms of actual playing ability, but hardly anyone on here is famous because of the simple fact that they are unable to get involved with the right connections and people.[/quote]
You severely underestimate the ability of musicians in today's pop industry. You also severely overestimate the ability of the snotty little brats on this forum. But that aside, these days my gigs are not in the pop music scene. I work as a solo instrumentalist, either as a guest artist for organisations or performing completely by myself. By the way, making connections is not difficult when you genuinely are at the very uppercrust of your local field. The people that have trouble making connections usually have trouble because there are thousands of musicians with similiar skills as they have.

[QUOTE=Inkstar;13466772]You can not tell us that we are bad musicians because we're not famous. That's just a complete load of bull****. For all we know, you could be a very average player, but are only playing in front of audiences because of the reasons I stated above.

Fame does not measure a musician.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=ghettoeddo;13466592]see i have no problem with any of what you said except for the fact that you decide to end a nice eloquent argument with "grubby little plebs."

well hello mr. high and mighty i tour and play in front of 100,000 people all the time.

[QUOTE=ghettoeddo;13466592]if anything, you could be using your -vast- knowledge and obvious superior musicianship to help other people become more like the great person you are. but rather, you resort to calling those below you "grubby little plebs" and whatever else you threw at us the past few days. if you're looking to teach us something, perhaps you should lose that arrogance or at least tone it down a bit. [/QUOTE]
Hey that's unfair, I was trying to help in this thread by recommending he not buy "Images and Words" it wasn't till I was pounced upon and verbally assaulted did I feel the need to insult some of the posters.

[QUOTE=ghettoeddo;13466592]no matter how well-phrased your arguments were...statements like that make me unable to take you seriously. and while you may not think my opinion of you matters at all, to be quite honest my opinion of you isn't very high even if you do play in front of large crowds.[/QUOTE]
Yeah this is starting to suck abit because, beleive it or not, I don't like being a jerk on the internet. Maybe we can agree that I'm allowed to voice my opinion of albums without having being insulted, and in return I will not pull out the "I'm a better musician" card? Deal?