So because you do it it's alright?

[QUOTE=gaslight;17766939]So because you do it it's alright?[/QUOTE]

Because you don't do it, it's not?

So, back to Pi - The Movie...

...Is that the one directed by the guy that directed Requiem for a Dream? The one that starts off with "Re-state our assumptions. 1...."?

If so, AWESOME MOVIE. However, I never could get past the grainy black&white filming. It served no purpose as far as mis-en-scene is concerned and I think it was only there to disguise shoddy production quality.

[QUOTE=EADGCFBb;17767027]Because you don't do it, it's not?[/QUOTE]

I never said I didn't do it.

I've backed away from working on things that I found too difficult, and I think it's a soft thing to do every time I do it. If I just stuck with it, I'd have made a lot more progress each time. That's my point, that people cheat themselves out of progress by making those excuses.

Does it make it alright because we both do it? No.

I think the majority of players probably take that approach, and that doesn't make it alright either.

I know if I could put my head down more and work on the truly, painfully difficult stuff, I'd make a lot more progress and I think that would be true for a lot of other people too.

That's all I'm trying to say.

[QUOTE=gaslight;17766588]At the end of the day I just think it's really weak when people write off something that is well beyond their level just because they "don't want to learn it" or they "don't like how it sounds". There's play time and there's serious time and practise time is serious time. What's the point of making excuses just to keep in your comfort zone? That's hugely counter-productive to developing your playing.[/QUOTE]

couple pages back but I just wanted to quote this and say how it's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard

1) Why would I learn something I don't like, especially considering I don't really ever learn songs

2) "That's hugely counter-productive to developing your playing"? Not really, seeing as how there's so much more to playing an instrument than just having chops. Thought this was pretty well established by now

3) "There's play time and there's serious time and practise time is serious time". Not really... idk about you guys but I play instruments because I find it fun. Sure you can learn all the Jaco you want but if you don't find it enjoyable then what do you have to show for it?

4) "At the end of the day..." Oh really at the end of the day. Okay then.

Dinosaur Jr was awesome tonight. Unfortunately their drummer wasn't allowed into Canada for whatever stupid reason, so I guess it was a tech filled in. He ripped it up real nice, but it would've been nice if the actual drummer was there.

Oh, and I guess I got a Jazzmaster. I'm set on guitars for life.

USA Custom Shop Telecaster
USA Lee Ranaldo Jazzmaster

I never need another guitar again.

[QUOTE=Moon Flavor;17767496]couple pages back but I just wanted to quote this and say how it's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard

1) Why would I learn something I don't like, especially considering I don't really ever learn songs

2) "That's hugely counter-productive to developing your playing"? Not really, seeing as how there's so much more to playing an instrument than just having chops. Thought this was pretty well established by now

3) "There's play time and there's serious time and practise time is serious time". Not really... idk about you guys but I play instruments because I find it fun. Sure you can learn all the Jaco you want but if you don't find it enjoyable then what do you have to show for it?

4) "At the end of the day..." Oh really at the end of the day. Okay then.[/QUOTE]

1) Okay have fun not knowing any songs, but to repeat it for the hell of it, sometimes as a musician you learn something difficult that you don't necessarily like the sound of, as a technical piece to sharpen your skills. Have you ever heard of an etude? Similar principles are at work.

2) Read what I said, I said developing your playing, not being all there is to your playing. If you are serious about improving your technique then you need to push out of your comfort zone. Technique is only the first step to being a good musician, but being the first step makes it a very important one. It's the foundation you use to express yourself later.

3) Again, read what I said. Play time is fun, when you're jamming, or playing songs, or writing, that's fun time, it's enjoyable. Practise time isn't supposed to be recreational, it's serious time where you work on your problems and building your skills.

4) Not actually a point but neither were your other ones.

[QUOTE=gaslight;17767510]1) Okay have fun not knowing any songs, but to repeat it for the hell of it, sometimes as a musician you learn something difficult that you don't necessarily like the sound of, as a technical piece to sharpen your skills. Have you ever heard of an etude? Similar principles are at work.

2) Read what I said, I said developing your playing, not being all there is to your playing. If you are serious about improving your technique then you need to push out of your comfort zone. Technique is only the first step to being a good musician, but being the first step makes it a very important one. It's the foundation you use to express yourself later.

3) Again, read what I said. Play time is fun, when you're jamming, or playing songs, or writing, that's fun time, it's enjoyable. Practise time isn't supposed to be recreational, it's serious time where you work on your problems and building your skills.

4) Not actually a point but neither were your other ones.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. I run scales and intervals and crap like that not because it sounds good, but because it helps me become better at my instrument. As far as my main instrument goes, I want to be able to play it as well as possible.

[QUOTE=gaslight;17767510]1) Okay have fun not knowing any songs, but to repeat it for the hell of it, sometimes as a musician you learn something difficult that you don't necessarily like the sound of, as a technical piece to sharpen your skills. Have you ever heard of an etude? Similar principles are at work.

[B]I know songs. They're my own. I feel like writing your own stuff advances your playing leagues more than learning someone else's crap.[/B]

2) Read what I said, I said developing your playing, not being all there is to your playing. If you are serious about improving your technique then you need to push out of your comfort zone. Technique is only the first step to being a good musician, but being the first step makes it a very important one. It's the foundation you use to express yourself later.

[B]But learning Jaco tunes, or anyone's tunes is not the only or even best way to even improve your technique[/B]

3) Again, read what I said. Play time is fun, when you're jamming, or playing songs, or writing, that's fun time, it's enjoyable. Practise time isn't supposed to be recreational, it's serious time where you work on your problems and building your skills.

[B]I read what you said. Who said practiCe isn't supposed to be recreational? Well either way even if someone very important said that, it still doesn't make it true. We all have different ways of doing things.[/B]

4) Not actually a point but neither were your other ones.

[B]I was implying that's a dumb way to start a paragraph[/B][/QUOTE]

there

lmao gaslight are you serious

i bet you're ugly as **** in real life dude

you have to be

thank you

i knew sade would come in and finally agree with me on something

and i don't see what ugliness has to do with anything but he [I]is[/I] australian

dude you have to be ugly to say things like "get out of your comfort zone"

"jaco is a better musician than ill ever be"

no he's not

jaco is ****in dead he aint doing ****

[QUOTE=Moon Flavor;17767584]there[/QUOTE]

Writing your own stuff is very important and a great way to advance your playing, but learning other people's stuff exposes you to fresh ideas and influences which is why it's important.

You don't have to lean Jaco's tunes specifically, just it's very valuable to extend yourself beyond your abilities through practising difficult pieces.

Practise isn't supposed to be fun, no-one has ever said it should be fun. [i]Playing[/i] is fun, [i]practise[/i] is hard, that's why it's practise. I don't know why people have trouble seperating these concepts in their head.

And "at the end of the day" is a figure of speech along the same lines as "all things considered" or "when it's all said and done". As a phrase it is completely tickety-boo, thankyou very much.

[QUOTE=Raayl;17767604]dude you have to be ugly to say things like "get out of your comfort zone"[/QUOTE]

I'm so ugly I have to say that and say it twice. Hungry dogs run from me bro, I'm way outside their comfort zone.

But yeah why do I "have" to be ugly? :lol:

[quote=gaslight;17767038]I never said I didn't do it.

I've backed away from working on things that I found too difficult, and I think it's a soft thing to do every time I do it. If I just stuck with it, I'd have made a lot more progress each time. That's my point, that people cheat themselves out of progress by making those excuses.

Does it make it alright because we both do it? No.

I think the majority of players probably take that approach, and that doesn't make it alright either.

I know if I could put my head down more and work on the truly, painfully difficult stuff, I'd make a lot more progress and I think that would be true for a lot of other people too.

That's all I'm trying to say.[/quote]

This. While I get frustrated every time I work on my 3 finger technique, when I sit down for 15 minutes and really seriously work on it slowly, I notice huge improvements.

none of this complete bullsh*t makes jaco any more interesting or entertaining

which was your whole point

so

you failed, now shut the **** up

kthx

I never said anyone had to find him interesting or entertaining.

gg reading & comprehension skills

nobody walked away from this with an increased respect for his playing, either

so

gg failure

[QUOTE=Raayl;17767606]"jaco is a better musician than ill ever be"

no he's not

jaco is ****in dead he aint doing ****[/QUOTE]

Dude, I beat you to that comment, like, 2 pages back.

So what? I don't expect many people to change their ways of thinking.

Whether or not people like Jaco or not doesn't concern me, the real heart of the point I've been trying to make is this:

If you are trying to get better at something, you often have to do difficult things, and just because you don't like them isn't a reason not to do them.

Anyone who can't grasp that has some real problems as far as I'm concerned.

Eat your damn vegetables, basically.

its music

what we do for fun and enjoyment

why the **** would your cross that with idiotic mantras like eat your vegetables

entertainment =/= physical sustenance

what planet do you think that is sound logic on?

If you want to be serious about music there's hard work involved to get your skills up. If you are interested in being as good as you can, and I'm not saying you have to be interested in that, but if you are, then there is a lot of hard work to do to get there.

It just seems soft to me when people say "no I don't want to try hard to get better at my instrument I just want it to be fun all of the time", but I understand not everyone wants to pursue things in that much depth. It's fine to only play guitar so you can strum a few chords at beach parties and wear bead necklaces and generally be a god-awful wanker. Well it's not fine but I can't stop people doing it.

It's fun to play sport but it isn't always fun to train is it? I would think out of everyone in this thread you would be most likely to see the benefits of pushing your boundaries to make gains given how into exercise you are. I'm not saying everyone has to apply that level of dedication or mindset to playing their instrument, but if they choose to push themselves on their instrument and as a musician, it takes a lot of hard work and not all of it will be giant fairy party. How can anyone disagree with that?

Vegetables are good for you, practise is good for you. I don't care if it's wonderful logic I really only put it in there because I just finished cooking some broccoli.

lol you're just going off your main point and straight into space

Peace be with you

I love it when we talk like this

You know, really [i]talk[/i]

'Sup anyway man I'm just chilling out for a bit before bed

i love you gaslight

You're a man of strong character raayl

you would make a fine cricketer

hey isn't jaco great at bass and really interesting to listen to as asswell

[quote=Raayl;17767624]nobody walked away from this with an increased respect for his playing, either

so

gg failure[/quote]

And again I'll comment - if you don't like jazz, you'll have no appreciation for his playing. You wont care about Ron Carter's playing. You wont care about Charles Mingus' playing. You wont care about Hadrian Feraud's playing. You wont care about John Patitucci's playing. You wont care about any "great" jazz bassist's playing.

Same goes for most genres and instruments, I'd say.

Excuse me guys Raayl and I are trying to have a conversation