Are you guys arguing about whether Tool or Opeth are more progressive in terms of the songs themselves, or just their general sounds over time/albums?

[QUOTE=Dunkelheit509]You're the second person I've seen say all Tool sounds the same. I know this is opinionated, but listen to Opiate, then listen to Lateralus. There is large difference there. People may only see Opeth has more progression, but they have double the albums Tool does. I bet you that Tool's new release, (April-May) will blow GR away, in terms of everything.[/QUOTE]


As far as vocals, all guitars and lyrics...every Tool album has that certain pattern. Don't get me wrong, I love Tool and know they're talented musicians. When compared to [B]O[/B]peth, especially dealing with innovation, I put my vote for [B]O[/B]peth being they cover so much ground.

[QUOTE=Flynn]As far as vocals, all guitars and lyrics...every Tool album has that certain pattern. Don't get me wrong, I love Tool and know they're talented musicians. When compared to [B]O[/B]peth, especially dealing with innovation, I put my vote for [B]O[/B]peth being they cover so much ground.[/QUOTE]



100% correct. Tool sounds the same on every album... Don't get me wrong they are good... just nowhere in the league of Opeth.

[QUOTE=Flynn]As far as vocals, all guitars and lyrics...every Tool album has that certain pattern. Don't get me wrong, I love Tool and know they're talented musicians. When compared to [B]O[/B]peth, especially dealing with innovation, I put my vote for [B]O[/B]peth being they cover so much ground.[/QUOTE]
This is to opinionated to keep going, so forget it.

[QUOTE=Man_Made_God]100% correct. Tool sounds the same on every album... Don't get me wrong they are good... just nowhere in the league of Opeth.[/QUOTE]


Someone was saying something about radical changes throughout Tool's albums, what about Morningrise to My Arms, Your Hearse? Or Orchid to Blackwater Park? If I didn't know who [B]O[/B]peth was, and listened to Orchid, then Blackwater Park...I would think they are two different bands. [B]O[/B]peth have changed dramatically throught the years; morphed into who they are today. I can't think of one band that have changed their style that much and still sound extraordinary.

Thats what I was saying about Tool, just over the span of less albums.

[QUOTE=Dunkelheit509]Thats what I was saying about Tool, just over the span of less albums.[/QUOTE]


Tool have had an amazing band life as well, I do agree.

If we just talk about the first four albums, I think Orchid to Still Life has a larger span than Opiate to Lateralus.

Just an opinion though.

[QUOTE=Deth]If we just talk about the first four albums, I think Orchid to Still Life has a larger span than Opiate to Lateralus.

Just an opinion though.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

[QUOTE=Flynn]Someone was saying something about radical changes throughout Tool's albums, what about Morningrise to My Arms, Your Hearse? Or Orchid to Blackwater Park? If I didn't know who [B]O[/B]peth was, and listened to Orchid, then Blackwater Park...I would think they are two different bands. [B]O[/B]peth have changed dramatically throught the years; morphed into who they are today. I can't think of one band that have changed their style that much and still sound extraordinary.[/QUOTE]

Based on Demon Of The Fall and Morningrise, the only thing that sounds REALLY different is the vocals, and even those aren't a big change. They still pretty much held to their style of not repeating riffs much in a song, aside from the time that the riff was played.

Nah, the riffs in MAYH were much more powerful where Morningrises were harmony based. The acoustic guitar has completely different uses on the albums, and the addition of Lopez was a subtle change as well.

Listen to the two albums back to back and you would notice quite a difference.

[QUOTE=Dunkelheit509]This is[B] to [/B]opinionated to keep going, so forget it.[/QUOTE]
Sorry but this has bugged me more than once. The correct spelling in that context is to[B]o[/B].

[QUOTE=Flynn]You really need to read some of Opeth's [U]Lyrics[/U], and listen to more then just Still Life.[/QUOTE]

I think Opeth's lyrics are their most overlooked component. They really are outstanding, and very deep for the most part. The songs become much more enjoyable if you at least slightly understand what they're about.

I'd say Lateralus is easily Tool's best album. Aenima becomes increasingly more flat with each listen. Lateralus keeps growing on me with each listen.

The only truly 'progressive' album by Tool would be Lateralus. Argue if you like but during Aenima and Undertow, Tool were still finding their 'progressive' sound. I still listen to Tool on occassion, I just don't find their music as moving as when I first heard them.

I think Opeth have progressed in that they've utilized their strengths to the absolute maximum - Mikael started off Orchid with a raspy scream, and by MAYH he had fine-tuned his death metal vocals to a thing of huge brutality. But then again listen to something like 'Hours of Wealth' and compare it to earlier work like 'Sillhouette'. The years and years of influences and external ideas (Steve wilson) has certainly helped Opeth progress. Those two songs sound like two different bands could've made them.

[QUOTE=Moses]Sorry but this has bugged me more than once. The correct spelling in that context is to[B]o[/B].[/QUOTE]
You have to stop that man... :lol:

I don't have any rational explanation for that but it really irritates me. Knowing you, you'll keep on going.

[QUOTE=Moses]I don't have any rational explanation for that but it really irritates me. Knowing you, you'll keep on going.[/QUOTE]
Damn right. :D

[QUOTE=Det_Nosnip]Blackwater Park is a much more advanced album than Still Life, although they are tied for my favorites. Most of the biggest advances were in production and vocal harmony, but BWP also saw the use of odd time signatures (Lepar Affinity, Drapery Falls). Deliverance also pushed that even further, with probably their most progressive song to date (Deliverance).[/QUOTE]

Ah yes, but in the end BWP is less-complicated than Still Life. All of the songs on BWP (with the exception of 3 short songs) start out heavy, have a little acoustic/clean bit, continue with heavy. Still Life, after the first three songs, continually swaps between acoustic, clean and heavy without warning. It's unpredictable.

In fact, even though I've only heard 1 track from each of their first three albums, I can say Opeth have been getting less progressive as they go! I don't hear anything on their latest albums that is courageous as Black Rose Immortal or The Apostle In Triumph.

I do appreciate Deliverance for being a bit courageous with the first two songs, it's my favourite album by Opeth anyway, but it really does nothing different. Eeeexcept for combining growling with acoustics in By The Pain I See In Others.

[QUOTE=Flynn]You really need to read some of Opeth's Lyrics, and listen to more then just Still Life.[/QUOTE]

Umm... I listen to Still Life very rarely, and what do their lyrics (which I don't really like) have to do with progression?

[QUOTE=lost_profits]
The only truly 'progressive' album by Tool would be Lateralus. Argue if you like but during Aenima and Undertow, Tool were still finding their 'progressive' sound. I still listen to Tool on occassion, I just don't find their music as moving as when I first heard them.[/QUOTE]

Could you please listen to Pushi.t and Third Eye, then revise that statement?

So does anyone know the situation on Martin Lopez? Will he be drumming with Opeth by April?

Because I will finally get to see Opeth on tour in April if all goes well. It'll be my first concert ever, thanks to NZ being a small country.

I decided long ago to not even compare tool and opeth because they are nothing alike. I mean, really guys, how do you fairly compare these bands? They sound nothing completely different and the only reason anyone is saying what they are saying is because one band's music happens to appeal to their taste a little more, so they start saying crap about the other band as though they don't love them both :P Why don't we compare Pink Floyd and Nile while we're at it? :rolleyes:

:smash: :smash: :smash:

[QUOTE=rhcp pman]So does anyone know the situation on Martin Lopez? Will he be drumming with Opeth by April?

Because I will finally get to see Opeth on tour in April if all goes well. It'll be my first concert ever, thanks to NZ being a small country.[/QUOTE]

Someone said that even if he recovers by then he won't be, seeing as touring is so stressful.

My question is... with someone else drumming for them, is it still worthwhile seeing Opeth instead of Cryptopsy?

And also... tickets for the Opeth concert I'm going to (if Cryptopsy don't announce dates before then) are supposed to go on sale in the middle of this month, but neither the venue nor ticket company seem to have even heard of Opeth playing. Is this normal? I kinda want to know how much the tickets are and if there's an age-limit before the time comes to purchase them.

Opeth > any band with "Crypt" or "Necro" in the name

Opeth > any band starting with an N or M

[QUOTE=Knifeboy]Opeth > any band starting with an N or M[/QUOTE]
*Thinks about it for a minute*


*agrees*

[QUOTE=Deth]*Thinks about it for a minute*


*agrees*[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I guess it is true...I'm not sure what he was referring to though.

[QUOTE=Flynn]Someone was saying something about radical changes throughout Tool's albums, what about Morningrise to My Arms, Your Hearse? Or Orchid to Blackwater Park? If I didn't know who [B]O[/B]peth was, and listened to Orchid, then Blackwater Park...I would think they are two different bands. [B]O[/B]peth have changed dramatically throught the years; morphed into who they are today. I can't think of one band that have changed their style that much and still sound extraordinary.[/QUOTE]

Loads of bands have changed their sound argueably as much as Opeth has. Radiohead, Tool, even a band like a Avenged Sevenfold from their first to their latest, they're playing a different style of music now.

Opeth were more melodic/harmonised/Iron Maiden style guitar thing going on on the first two albums, then they got more dissonant, added more clean vocals, the growls got deeper, then they mixed the styles together a bit more and went more progressive and unpredictable in the songwriting, adding new elements from different genres and such. These are diffinate differences, but the... core sound has somehow stayed fairly similar. The albums still have a lot in common even though the sounds themselves might be different.

Tool on the other hand, are writing different types of songs now. They start with like straightforward 3-4 minute hard rock songs, and now they're writing way more complex 8 minute+ epics with a progressive twist.

Anyway, it's all subjective. They're changed their sound around enough to keep interesting, that's a plus.

[QUOTE=Werny]Ah yes, but in the end BWP is less-complicated than Still Life.
[/quote] No, it's not.
[quote]
All of the songs on BWP (with the exception of 3 short songs) start out heavy, have a little acoustic/clean bit, continue with heavy. Still Life, after the first three songs, continually swaps between acoustic, clean and heavy without warning. It's unpredictable.
[/quote] Unpredictable swaps between acoustic, clean and heavy do not make a band more progressive. Notwithstanding, there are plenty of scattered switches...e.g. Drapery Falls, Bleak.
[quote]
In fact, even though I've only heard 1 track from each of their first three albums, I can say Opeth have been getting less progressive as they go! I don't hear anything on their latest albums that is courageous as Black Rose Immortal or The Apostle In Triumph.
[/quote] You don't seem to know what "progressive" means. The first few albums were very melodic and may have had more involved guitar work, but they were not more progressive.
[quote]
I do appreciate Deliverance for being a bit courageous with the first two songs, it's my favourite album by Opeth anyway, but it really does nothing different. Eeeexcept for combining growling with acoustics in By The Pain I See In Others.
[/quote] I meant the song, "Deliverance." It is by far their most progressive song to date.
[quote]
Could you please listen to Pushi.t and Third Eye, then revise that statement?[/QUOTE]
Or Eulogy. Or 46 & 2. :p

I'm now starting to like Pain Of Salvation more than either Tool or Opeth. I've pretty much been listening to Remedy Lane non-stop for the last week.

Relating to the whole Tool/Opeth discussion, I think Tool didn't really do anything amazing until AEnima, and especially even more on Lateralus. Their first two releases were good but nothing too special. I can't wait till the next one to see how much better it will be. I think Opeth are an overall better band, though.

[QUOTE=Jude]Yeah, I guess it is true...I'm not sure what he was referring to though.[/QUOTE]

I was just being random :p

But it IS true