hahaha.... go away billy bob.... imo korn is pretty good.... so is eminem... makes me laugh... and so is OPETH... my fav band... to me.... metal is some what of an attitude.... i think korn is metal... because i get the same feeling from them as i do when i listen to.... god forbid or somethin.... korn is just as intense as god forbid... they just put their intensity across in a different way.

its allll good.

nu-Metal isn't metal at all, It's just Hard Rock with a shiney sticker and elements of Alternative

[QUOTE=KingofDudes]Even when Korn themselves say that they arent metal...[/QUOTE]
well they sure as hell aren't jazz :p
[QUOTE=MetalFan]^
conclusion? - it's c00L to sAy tht U LiStEn tO *MeTaL*[/QUOTE]
that's very true
4n iF u dnt say u HA+3 nu-MetAL, ur a pozur, 2
(well, at least on the ultimate-guitar.com forums, anyway :lol: )
[QUOTE=bob the ripper apple.]i think korn is metal... because i get the same feeling from them as i do when i listen to.... god forbid or somethin.... korn is just as intense as god forbid... they just put their intensity across in a different way.

its allll good.[/QUOTE]
:chug: :chug:

^They sure as hell arent metal


God call them hard rock, call them whatever, but korn is not metal.

Metal is more than the attitude. It is also based off of the sound, riffage, scales it is based off of, etc.

Besides based off of that logic you could call Eminem metal....

Music is not attitude, music is based off of sound. ::duh::
But I would put korn in nu-metal ::how do you say nu-metal isn't metal, when it says metal in it, you weren't the one who made the word so stop saying what it is and isn't::
( this is some of my opinions and some of it is just plain facts )

[QUOTE=procreationb]Music is not attitude, music is based off of sound. ::duh::[/QUOTE]

It is naive to think that heavy metal has not spawned an entire counterculture based around it.

And I think you need to do a little more studying on hte cultural influences of music throughout history. Attitude, social mores, whatever you want to call it, the beliefs of a time period greatly affect and are affected by the music of that era.

[QUOTE=procreationb]Music is not attitude, music is based off of sound. ::duh::
But I would put korn in nu-metal ::how do you say nu-metal isn't metal, when it says metal in it, you weren't the one who made the word so stop saying what it is and isn't::
( this is some of my opinions and some of it is just plain facts )[/QUOTE]

(And all of it is just plain retarded.)

Care to explain pop-punk? It isnt punk yet it has punk in its name.

I could name my cat "Dog". By you logic since the cat's name is "Dog" it is a dog.

What would Darkthrone be considered?

Oh wow it's been a [I]really[/I] long time since I ventured into this thread.

[QUOTE=Paranoidd]What would Darkthrone be considered?[/QUOTE]

They would be black metal.

Seriously? Wow...

I guess I do like some black metal then...

So, would stuff like darkwave ans coldwave go in the metal forum or the other music forum?

Metal is a combination of emotion and sound. Korn and Opeth both have dark and angry lyrics, and they both use heavy guitar distortion and drums, bass, etc. to get an aggressive sound.

For example, you couldn't call AC/DC metal, because their lyrics are enerally about love and sex, and their distortion isn't as heavy or aggressive as Korn and Opeth (even though Korn and Opeth have [i]radically[/i] different distortion types themselves).

^
Ahem...Can't you see other *slight* differences between Korn and Opeth?

I can.

KoRn = Nu-metal garbage
Opeth = Amazing

[QUOTE=Kaden]Industrial Metal:
I've often heard industrial metal compared to techno, mainly because it has prevalent use of synthesizers as a major instrument. It takes cues from 80's industrial dance music that was popular in the club scene, and adds metal guitars to create an aggresive effect. Industrial metal is meant to create a very bleak atmoshpere. The lyrics are aggresive and very, very angst-ridden, and the angry atmoshpere is used to further the theme of social alienation. The genre was mainly underground until Nine Inch Nails broke through into the mainstream with the album Pretty Hate Machine.

Key bands: Ministry, Nine Inch Nails, Skinny Puppy, Fear Factory, Orgy, Godflesh, etc. etc.[/QUOTE]

Skinny Puppy is Industrial not Industrial Metal. Industrial Metal actually has guitars in just about every song.

Also I would classify Tool as Stoner Rock.

[QUOTE=KingofDudes](And all of it is just plain retarded.)

Care to explain pop-punk? It isnt punk yet it has punk in its name.

I could name my cat "Dog". By you logic since the cat's name is "Dog" it is a dog.[/QUOTE]


Pop-punk is basically saying it's wuss punk... And the artists that make the music are the ones who make the quote on quote "types of music". I don't see why you were so hostile though I was mostly agreeing with you.

sorry. I was pissed off due to lack of sleep, lack of food, and a big a[I]s[/I]s project I had to do in one day.

and i thought i was the only trans who liked tool

[QUOTE=SickAmongstPure]I can.

KoRn = Nu-metal garbage
Opeth = Amazing[/QUOTE]

Korn = heavy, aggressive, emotional
Opeth = heavy, aggressive, emotional

heavy+aggressive+emotional = metal

And there you have it.

[QUOTE=Kriz864]Korn = heavy, aggressive, emotional
Opeth = heavy, aggressive, emotional

heavy+aggressive+emotional = metal

And there you have it.[/QUOTE]

Oh really?

A Past and Future Secret is a very stirring acoustic ballad about the life and death of Arthur Pendragon. It was written by Power Metal band Blind Guardian.

Nightmare was a haunting acoustic piece with an electric guitar solo at the end written by European metal guitarrist Michael Schenker.

Rainbow in the Dark is one of Ronnie James Dio's best songs. It wasn't particularly heavy, but anyone who says Dio isn't metal is a fool.

To summarize, your theory is full of holes and stands on weak legs at best.

How is korn considered metal? if thats the idea you've got, then linkin park are metal ffs. *BUZZ* **** NO! you get a bunch of 12 year old girls in a room and play some korn, they will most likely start nodding their heads and start saying it's good because they want to be hardcore like MTV, you put some Opeth,slayer, In flames and even bloody slipknot on, and they will start crying or getting scared or something. Metal generally has talent involved, korn = talentless IMO, just a bit of drop D and a 5 note riff. nu-metal, honestly, i don't even think nu-metal deserves to be called metal, i think it's crap, but once again, that's just my opinion. in short OPETH=****ING BRILLIANT AND METAL!!!! KORN=PRETTY CRAP NON METAL STUFF

[QUOTE=Grey Incision]How is korn considered metal? if thats the idea you've got, then linkin park are metal ffs. *BUZZ* **** NO! you get a bunch of 12 year old girls in a room and play some korn, they will most likely start nodding their heads and start saying it's good because they want to be hardcore like MTV, you put some Opeth,slayer, In flames and even bloody slipknot on, and they will start crying or getting scared or something.[/QUOTE]
And...?`

I certainly would start crying if someone made me listen to In Flames or God Hates Us All, but if I had to sit through an entire Opeth album I would kill myself by swallowing my fist. Whereas I might barely make it alive through 1.5 Korn albums.

[QUOTE=Ragnarok Snake]What about Power Metal?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's what I was wondering.

[QUOTE=god_hates_us_all]Yeah, that's what I was wondering.[/QUOTE]

If a genre is missing, fill in the gaps yourself. I already took care of Power Metal a few pages back. Here you go:

[quote][U]Power Metal[/U]

Power Metal was largely inspired by the works of Iron Maiden and Ronnie James Dio. Helloween is often given credit for defining the genre as we know it today. Power metal is often scorned and laughed at by outsiders due to the over-the-top lyrics and high fantasy imagery. The music itself is typically defined by a driving rhythm section, usually featuring a lot of double bass drumming, and a tight sense of melody, thus requiring a high degree of technical skill and musicianship. The vocalists tend to be very diverse and it is difficult to find unifying themes across the genre, though a singer with a very strong, epic-sounding voice is common. The lyrical content of power metal often has high fantasy or sword & sorcery themes. Many power metal bands are known for an over-the-top stage presence. A prime example of which is Manowar, who have on two separate occassions broken the records as "The World's Loudest Band."

Notable Bands: Hammerfall, Blind Guardian, Helloween, Manowar, Nightwish, Rhapsody, (arguably) Iced Earth, Dragonforce[/quote]

[QUOTE=BuzzFreak]Skinny Puppy is Industrial not Industrial Metal. Industrial Metal actually has guitars in just about every song.

Also I would classify Tool as Stoner Rock.[/QUOTE]

Thou shalt not classify Tool.

It is really hard to classify Tool, ill just leave them at prog.

[QUOTE=KingofDudes]It is really hard to classify Tool, ill just leave them at prog.[/QUOTE]

:: I'll go along with that ::

Does n e metal/rock band in the north carolina want free webpages or promotion?
 

i am offering any north carolina metal/rock bands free promotional endorsements from my website. if you are intereste de-mail me at [email]KirkJamesLarsCliffRobert@yahoo.com[/email] or [email]ssjGokuden@msn.com[/email],
or dumbarssegallo is my i.m. if needed, i have promotional contests and will give you your own sub-domain (*mini web-site*)

[QUOTE=Steerpike]Oh really?

A Past and Future Secret is a very stirring acoustic ballad about the life and death of Arthur Pendragon. It was written by Power Metal band Blind Guardian.

Nightmare was a haunting acoustic piece with an electric guitar solo at the end written by European metal guitarrist Michael Schenker.

Rainbow in the Dark is one of Ronnie James Dio's best songs. It wasn't particularly heavy, but anyone who says Dio isn't metal is a fool.
[/QUOTE]

"Anyone who says Dio isn't metal is a fool"......in your [I]opinion[/I]. And it's my opinion that people who don't consider Korn to be metal are fools. It's not set in concrete - you can't prove me wrong in saying Korn is metal and I can't prove you wrong for saying they're not.

And I was only using Opeth as an example. Lamb of God and Iron Maiden are both heavy and aggressive, in the same way that Disturbed and Rammstein are. The differences are way too small (imo, of course) to call the first two "metal" and say they're great, and call the other two "nu" metal, and say they suck.

[QUOTE=Grey Incision]How is korn considered metal? if thats the idea you've got, then linkin park are metal ffs. *BUZZ* **** NO! you get a bunch of 12 year old girls in a room and play some korn, they will most likely start nodding their heads and start saying it's good because they want to be hardcore like MTV, you put some Opeth,slayer, In flames and even bloody slipknot on, and they will start crying or getting scared or something. Metal generally has talent involved, korn = talentless IMO, just a bit of drop D and a 5 note riff. nu-metal, honestly, i don't even think nu-metal deserves to be called metal, i think it's crap, but once again, that's just my opinion. in short OPETH=****ING BRILLIANT AND METAL!!!! KORN=PRETTY CRAP NON METAL STUFF[/QUOTE]
:lol: Utter load of bullsh[i][/i]it. For starters, people of all ages like the band Korn, people only stereotype it for little kids when they want it to help their argument. My dad is 40 years old, he GREW UP with bands like AC/DC, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and Led Zeppelin (albeit, none of those bands are metal) and he's still a fan of Korn. If you say Korn is drop D and a 5 note riff, it makes people think you've never heard a Korn song in your entire life. Korn's music has so much more depth (excluding the lyrics but including the vocals), melody, and countermelody than Cannibal Corpse, for example, that comparing the two is laughable. And it's true that Johnathan Davis's lyrics aren't the most creative ever written, but it's the same way with just as many traditional metal bands as it is with modern metal like Korn.

Korn and Opeth are both brilliant and talented.

[QUOTE=metalmorphosis]i am offering any north carolina metal/rock bands free promotional endorsements from my website. if you are intereste de-mail me at [email]KirkJamesLarsCliffRobert@yahoo.com[/email] or [email]ssjGokuden@msn.com[/email],
or dumbarssegallo is my i.m. if needed, i have promotional contests and will give you your own sub-domain (*mini web-site*)[/QUOTE]

You're so banned. How ****ing stupid do you think we are?

[QUOTE=Kriz864]"Anyone who says Dio isn't metal is a fool"......in your [I]opinion[/I]. And it's my opinion that people who don't consider Korn to be metal are fools. It's not set in concrete - you can't prove me wrong in saying Korn is metal and I can't prove you wrong for saying they're not.[/quote]

It's not Korn's metalness I'm debating. It's the fact that you're using a poor argument to defend your stance. The way you define metal is a gross over-simplification.

[quote]And I was only using Opeth as an example. Lamb of God and Iron Maiden are both heavy and aggressive, in the same way that Disturbed and Rammstein are. The differences are way too small (imo, of course) to call the first two "metal" and say they're great, and call the other two "nu" metal, and say they suck.[/quote]

But that argument is irrelevant as well because only Disturbed is considered a band in the nu-metal movement. I don't what Lamb of God and Rammstein are considered, but Iron Maiden is NWOBHM.

If you take the time to read through this whole thread, you'll see that there are differences and they're certainly not "way too small" to be relevant in a discussion.

Korn isn't hard... listen to Korn, Life Is Peachy, and Take A Look In The Mirror. Those are the hardest albums I own. It's not exactly metal, but it sure as h*ll isn't nu-Metal. Untouchables, that album is nu-Metal but it's good.

Linkin Park is not metal.

Originally Posted by Grey Incision
How is korn considered metal? if thats the idea you've got, then linkin park are metal ffs. *BUZZ* **** NO! you get a bunch of 12 year old girls in a room and play some korn, they will most likely start nodding their heads and start saying it's good because they want to be hardcore like MTV, you put some Opeth,slayer, In flames and even bloody slipknot on, and they will start crying or getting scared or something. Metal generally has talent involved, korn = talentless IMO, just a bit of drop D and a 5 note riff. nu-metal, honestly, i don't even think nu-metal deserves to be called metal, i think it's crap, but once again, that's just my opinion. in short OPETH=****ING BRILLIANT AND METAL!!!! KORN=PRETTY CRAP NON METAL STUFF

yeah... ok then.. korn is pretty... WTF R U ON?, they don't have anything remotely pretty sounding. HAVE YOU EVER EVEN LISTENED TO KORN? THERE ISN'T A SINGLE PRETTY THING ABOUT THEIR MUSIC. Get 12 year old girls in the room and they'll like korn... ok boss. When I was in 6th grade I started listening to them. At my one friends B-Day party I put in Life Is Peachy, the one girl said "How can you listen to that evil satanist music,". Hardcore like MTV... are you kidding me. Name one thing hardcore about MTV they fukking banned the video for Right Now because it was "too hardcore"

[QUOTE]:Yeah System of a Down is nu metal no matter how hard you try to say otherwise.
yeah that's right and deserve it the best...

lol

[QUOTE=kornedbeef]yeah... ok then.. korn is pretty... WTF R U ON?, they don't have anything remotely pretty sounding.[/QUOTE]

I think you read that wrong. I think he was trying to say it as in "This music is pretty bad."

To further clarify, the way he said it, pretty = really.

I'm not even going to fight it anymore, whatever you say man. Obviously their are some people out here that like korn and your amazing god of "opeth" too.

:: points to self ::

[QUOTE=kornedbeef]yeah... ok then.. korn is pretty... WTF R U ON?, they don't have anything remotely pretty sounding. HAVE YOU EVER EVEN LISTENED TO KORN? THERE ISN'T A SINGLE PRETTY THING ABOUT THEIR MUSIC. Get 12 year old girls in the room and they'll like korn... ok boss. When I was in 6th grade I started listening to them. At my one friends B-Day party I put in Life Is Peachy, the one girl said "How can you listen to that evil satanist music,". Hardcore like MTV... are you kidding me. Name one thing hardcore about MTV they fukking banned the video for Right Now because it was "too hardcore"[/QUOTE]

1) I know tons of 12-year-old girls who like Korn. They're on the same level as Sum 41 and Blink 182 here. Everyone either likes all three or hates all three. I don't know how old you are, but times have most likely changed considerably since you were in 6th grade. Mainstream music moves with incredible alacrity.

2) He didn't say pretty, he said pretty crap. Massive difference.

3) He used hardcore in a mocking way. "Korn fans want to be hardcore like MTV" - obviously he meant that MTV are putting out a retrograde view of hardcore and they're falling for it. Maybe he should have put !!!!!11111one!! at the end to clairfy that.

4) I've seen MTV play Right Now many times - both versions.

[QUOTE=Kriz864]Korn = heavy, aggressive, emotional
Opeth = heavy, aggressive, emotional

heavy+aggressive+emotional = metal

And there you have it.[/QUOTE]

Nightwish. Not agressive at all, and on most songs not heavy. Still metal.

Anthrax. Never heard a single drop of emotion from them (I have 2 albums). Still metal.

Tricky. Heavy, agressive, emotional. Not metal.

Public Enemy. Heavy, agressive, emotional. Not metal.

Just but 4 reasons why your theory is flawed.

I appreciate that you like both Korn and Opeth, but I can't help but think that the fact that you like them is clouding your judgement. It can be tempting to view 'metal' as this holy grail, a mighty seal of approval upon a band. It's not - it's a way of describing a band. Same with people viewing nu-metal as a way of slagging a band off. It's not - Deftones and Dredg being two prime examples of good, sometimes great nu-metal bands.

Korn are nu-metal. That doesn't prevent them from being good.

I know I'm judging you and I shoudn't, but that's the impression I got.

If you're looking for a reason why Korn are not metal, then let me offer this - for me, the key ingredient in metal is escapism. With all metal, the goal is to help the listener escape their mundane lives and go somewhere else. Even if it's a subconscious thing with the band making the music, it's still there. It's the very spirit of metal. Be it fantasy-based lyrics to take you to a different world, unbridled agression to make you thrash the pain away, outrageously complex guitar lines to make you dream of being able to play them, or just embracing the rock'n'roll lifestyle to make the listener think of how great it would be to be in a band and have millions of fans.

Korn, on the other hand, are not escapist in the least bit. They are incredibly grounded in reality - nobody wants to escape their own life and live in a world where you get raped by neighbours, bullied for liking Duran Duran, and never get laid, do they?!? The purpose Korn serve is to let the listener wallow in their pain, and appreciate a kind of beauty in suffering, and indulge thier fascinations in watching someone break down. I'm not saying Korn are particularly good at this, but that's what nu-metal does. That's not a bad thing - grunge does it too, and grunge is nowhere near as scorned. The only escapism in nu-metal is when a band sings about beating up and surpressing those who opress you - which will not only conjue up images from your own life, but will remind you you're being oppressed in the first place, so it's not really escapist.

Whoever said "Thou shalt not classify Tool," is **** right. Can't classify it. Oh...Just because little girls like Korn doesn't deprive them of the respect they deserve. And whoever that person was that said they would cry while listening to In Flames...Rather sad. I guess everyone is losing their touch with what is good music nowadays, eh?

Iai, I never thought about that before but now I think about it you're right. However, I don't think all escapist music is metal that's just one of the defining characteristics of metal.

Lets see how that guy responds to your post then. :p