Wow, :thumb: thats some great advice thats a great job.

I just started college, im a taking music A2 and a music tech AS! So far they're pretty good, and look promising.

next year im going northampton collage 2 study music, preformance side of things :)

dude try do this quick your thread rules

Maybe the next issue could have something to do with steps in writing songs and how to put it all together.

Also, maybe something about on-stage preformance, and how to make a show memorable.

yeah, that'd be good... Theres more to a performance than playing well.

i really agree on something about steps to writing songs

my band can lay down some great riffs but we have a lot of trouble writing lyrics and when we do write them we sometimes have trouble attaching them to the songs or writing new music for them

[QUOTE=ilikeyoubetterdead]i really agree on something about steps to writing songs

my band can lay down some great riffs but we have a lot of trouble writing lyrics and when we do write them we sometimes have trouble attaching them to the songs or writing new music for them[/QUOTE]

123

great guide by the way.

ya this is an awsome forum

great stuff
 

thats good stuff man keep it up :thumb:

nice username. nice first post.

hey, leeds aint far from where i live... Do you need like GCSEs n A levels or grades to go to music college? I presume you do, but i didn't do a music GCSE because half od it was appreciating classical music, and i had huge pressure from my rents to do more acedemic subjects...

[QUOTE=moaner]hey, leeds aint far from where i live... Do you need like GCSEs n A levels or grades to go to music college? I presume you do, but i didn't do a music GCSE because half od it was appreciating classical music, and i had huge pressure from my rents to do more acedemic subjects...[/QUOTE]

For music tech, you need: 4 GCSE'S 1 in english, 1 in maths, the other two can be in anything.

For music preformance, I think you need something like grade 5ish in both theory and playing.

You can apply at any time, it's a very open college, my year group is made up of people from 16-40, yes, thats right, I said 40 heh, you could easily apply next year and get in, they aren't fussy about you being a couple of years older than normal.
Hope that helped, if not, I'll answer any more questions you have :)

An update on the next article, I found out something that could prove to be very amazing, Im going to investigate it more tommorrow, but the next issue should be accompanied by mp3 samples and detailed lists of what they were done with , to give an idea of what can be done, with simple equipment.

Simple meaning simple, some people say low budget and mean "no more than 500"

I mean, an £8 kareoke mic
A 4 cassette 4 track
Audacity
An amp with two mic inputs.

This may add up to around 200+, but then again, most people have the amp, the 4 track can be substituted with a minidisc player which im sure a few people have, and audacity is free :)

quite intreeging(sp?)

great thread man

I'm new to this site and just read through this thread, very good info, I agree with almost everything that was said, however I'm not a big fan of saying the name of each and every song before you play it, what my band likes to do is tie 3 songs together,(very little, sometimes no palse inbetween the 3 songs if they tie together well) then a palse, talk to the crowd, and do the same thing again with the next 3 songs, and so on..... dead air on stage is what gets me, I hate it when a band finishes a song and then stops and looks around at eachother as to ask whats next, and never talking to the crowd, the crowd must feel like a part of the show and they must feel apreicated for coming to your show. I use to make set lists and group 3 songs together and then make notes of topics to cover during the breaks, (website, email list, CD's T-shirts, bar staff, club, etc...) I think that helps.

Right, It's been ages since the update, but my band are preparing records for the E.P. however, whilst toying with my cheap 4 track and audacity, something came to light, it was near cd quality, Im going to try and record a proper track by track version of one of our songs and mix it tommorrow and see if DIY e.p.s can be done so cheaply, I'll also be going through the rest of the song writing process.
See you monday.

....
 

my drummer annoys me... she never wants to play any difficult songs... Im off to college in a year and we only have one practise a week so at this rate were never going to be up to gig standard :upset:

well, if she won't try anything hard you'll be up to gig standard sooner?

look on the bright side of things

maybe she just isn't very good... in which case you shouldn't be trying to make her do things she can't

make a book on it get lots of money.... its helped me heaps thanx.... :)

cliff

Simple Answer: Your drummer needs to get better or you need a new drummer.

[QUOTE=moaner]well, if she won't try anything hard you'll be up to gig standard sooner?

look on the bright side of things

[/QUOTE]

lol! fair enough. Yeah... i suppose... we finally convinced her to play a song with a difficult fill in it so its not all bad... (next step.. pantera!)

Nah id never kick her out.. the 3 of us are good friends so... its half the reason its such a bitch :p

kkkkocaine is online. Perhaps he's working n the next issue...

i could be banned for saying this, but i feel the need to...

really, really helpful thread, probably the best about starting/promoting/working a band, ever! really, kkkkocaine, what's ur band's name? u mentioned going to spain... i'm wondeirng if u guys are getting big or something. plus, u'r going to music college! i'm so jealous... here in my country going to music college will cause volcanic eruptions of ego and pursuits in a family. i mean, it's badly appreciated here.

keep it up dude. we're all gonna need everything u post here. maybe someday we can form a ring of bands or somethign to help each other out here in mx? hehe... sounds like i have learn something from the posts. ;) :thumb:

Why the hell would someone be banned for saying that?

[QUOTE]eally, really helpful thread, probably the best about starting/promoting/working a band, ever! really, kkkkocaine, what's ur band's name? u mentioned going to spain... i'm wondeirng if u guys are getting big or something. plus, u'r going to music college! i'm so jealous... here in my country going to music college will cause volcanic eruptions of ego and pursuits in a family. i mean, it's badly appreciated here.

keep it up dude. we're all gonna need everything u post here. maybe someday we can form a ring of bands or somethign to help each other out here in mx? hehe... sounds like i have learn something from the posts. [/QUOTE]

My bands name is Bandage These Hearts, at the moment we're still working the local scene, getting our e.p sorted out and getting the name out, Spain was just a random holiday I was on.
Music college was a point of contention for my family, we had that big family debate "But Luke, Why can't you be a lawyer?"
I explained that I'd hate being a lawyer, I'd rather earn enough to live on and be happy, than earn three times that and wake up every morning thinking "God, I've got to find another job"

Right I'm doing the new issue today, sorry its been so latecoming, I spent all yesterday calling places, and then I spent the evening boxing in a gasplant social club, hardcore
:thumb:

[QUOTE=DruMMeR_BoY14]Why the hell would someone be banned for saying that?[/QUOTE]

for saying something like "great thread", thus flooding the thread. heh. :lol: i'm only kidding.

we're all waiting dude..... not that we mind, as long as they come thru. g'luck on ur band. i hope to start mine in a yr or two. or a month or two. or a week or two. maybe tomorrow... :confused:

bandagethesehearts.com ??

[QUOTE=doggonit]for saying something like "great thread", thus flooding the thread. heh. :lol: i'm only kidding.

we're all waiting dude..... not that we mind, as long as they come thru. g'luck on ur band. i hope to start mine in a yr or two. or a month or two. or a week or two. maybe tomorrow... :confused:[/QUOTE]
or an hour or 2?

[QUOTE=doggonit]for saying something like "great thread", thus flooding the thread. heh. :lol: i'm only kidding.

[/QUOTE]


You should be banned.

[QUOTE=BassBud]bandagethesehearts.com ??[/QUOTE]

Oh I wish, I'm not that rich. :p

Right, The Issue!

Preparing A Song From Conception, To Studio CD Duplication

Now, this issue will assume that you write your lyrics before anything else.

So you've just printed off those lyrics you wrote 10 minutes ago, a spur of the moment event.
Lyrics you love, with power, you've tweaked them, and you know how they should go.

What to do?

Well from here we can go two different routes, you can plonk the print out infront of the guitarists pizza bike and say "What can you think of to go with them"

In my opinion, the above is a bad idea.

My approach?
Get a mic, be it a pc mic or the mic you sold you short rib for, as long as you can hear the melody it will do, individual words don't matter.

Just sing into the mic, get a few recordings, dont worry if you don't get it perfect.

Send this file to the band members, ask them to work around that melody.

Hopefully, do this before the practice, give them a few days to come up with concepts.
This isn't restricting the band members ability to write music, they can do whatever they wish within the melody, the first method I described often results in a guitarist sending you a file of them playing with the words "its a bit fast"
You open the file to realise you can't even sing to that, you may as well disperse the band and call yourself Method Man to handle that speed.
This method however, ensures that the song will be at your speed and most likely the melody you are best at singing.

At the practice

Gather the concept ideas and put them together, it is usually best to work from Vocals ==> Guitar ==> Bass ==> Drums
Get the song put together, go through it a few times.

Put a recorder down, preferably posistioned carefully to get the best quality, in this case quality matters a little more.

Play back the recording, this will result in some "oohs" from the bandmembers, the bassist won't have heard the drummers latin breakdown during the bridge e.t.c.
This is the point in which all band members should comment on the song, is the bridge too long? Does the guitar solo overbear on the song? Would a line of lyrics be best changed?

In short, tweak the song, if the song doesn't have a hook or any feature that makes you want to listen again, it needs tweaking, now people will jump on me and say "Well we're not pop bands"

The fact of the matter is, a song without hooks, basicly translates to a song that isn't interesting, hooks could be a funk bassline, it could be deep lyrics, it could just be the way the song falls together in parts.

A hook isn't just a rap and pop convention, any song you listen too repeatedly has hooks.

As a band you want people to like your music, hooks make good music, learn to use them.

So now you've tweaked it.

We will now assume you will be using a recording studio, Recording studios cost money, yes, this is glaringly obvious, but far too many bands neglect preparing.

The song has been tweaked, Everyone has to practice their part, on their own, you need to be able to play your part in perfect time, especially the drummer, if your paying by the hour, you don't want to pay more money because you didn't practice.

Every penny you save in the studio, is a penny you gain towards printing the cd's.

Yes, you will get click tracks in the studio, but that wont help if you haven't practiced.

Individual Player notes

Vocals - Always accomodate vocals, having a room full of people staring at you through a glass window can be off putting, if it helps, have the rest of the band sent off to the pub for a while.

Bass - This needs to be played with confidence, if you play with your head down, it will show on the recording, play bass like every groove is your last.

Drums - The biggest problem, Dynamics, "So what if my snares quieter than the bass, you can amp it up cant you?"
Yes, it can be amped up, but hitting a snare with force, and hitting it quiety, when amped up to the same volume, sound different.
You can't make quiet sound loud, you need to practice your dynamics, drive the beat with your bass.

Note : Buy or Borrow "Music Tech Survival guide" it may look heavy going, but its a great book, not about music tech, but the best methods to get a good recording, like the things I've put above, it has all sorts of techniques from creating your own pop mic shields, to blocking silibants with a pencil, a must have.

Request for the engineer to give you a copy of the tracks in mp3 or wav format on a cd, this will mean at a later time you can fiddle with the tracks, you may get home and think "I wish we could have wah wah on the guitar track", well then, you can go home and do it.

Make sure the sound engineer gets decent breaks, this may sound silly, but when you listen to a band all day, you start to become less receptive to things like slight changes in sounds or out of tune sections.

If the recording sounds bad and the engineer requests that you have a few more hours e.t.c. accept it, you will have to pay of course, but it will be cheaper than redoing the entire song all over again somewhere else when you realise it would have taken just one more vocal take to get it perfect.


Getting It Duplicated

Shop around, don't go with the first place you see, compare quotes, some places specialise in bands and will do offers like "Free A3 poster for every 10 cd's"
A great promotional addition to the cd's.

See which would be best for you, slip cases or jewel cases, Do you really need a 12 page booklet, or could you save money and use a 4 page booklet instead?

Estimate how many copies you need, and look at pricing, You need to make a profit, but no-one will buy a debut band cd for anything more than £10.

If its your first cd, don't worry about getting rich, worry about breaking even and getting your name out, this is why an e.p. may be better than a full length album to start with, the costs will be lowered.

Remember to record cd sales, this is what Mr.Record Company wants to see, he wants to know if you can sell, also note down how fast they sold, if you get lucky and sell out a batch in a month, it will look even better.

Send some cd's off to magazines e.t.c., you may not get reviewed, but then again you might, some magazines even put reviewed songs on a cd, which is more promotion for you.
But never get downhearted by big magazine reviews, if its your first song and you only get 2 stars out of 5, remember, your competing with bands who have been doing this alot longer than you, and 2 stands for "could do better", it doesn't mean you suck, just keep trying at it.

Good Luck :)

What do you recommend as a good price for a recording studio? And about how long do thin it would take to record per song if we do our homework before hand?

[QUOTE=casbah rocker]What do you recommend as a good price for a recording studio? And about how long do thin it would take to record per song if we do our homework before hand?[/QUOTE]

Hmm, well if your American this may get confusing, what with currency values and the like.
But to me, for a band recording its first e.p. or Album, you don't want to spend more than £12 an hour.
For a 4 track, it's likely best to shoot for 7 hours (Sounds hefty for 4 tracks, but when your in the studio it will fly by, it'll be worth it as well, prepare a couple of extra songs just in case you whizz through in 5 hours, that way you have something to do with the other two)
But if anyones in the Leeds area I can point them in the direction of a very good studio for new bands.

Remember if it isn't perfect the first time, you may as well do it again.

[QUOTE=KKKKKocaine]Hmm, well if your American this may get confusing, what with currency values and the like.
But to me, for a band recording its first e.p. or Album, you don't want to spend more than £12 an hour.
For a 4 track, it's likely best to shoot for 7 hours (Sounds hefty for 4 tracks, but when your in the studio it will fly by, it'll be worth it as well, prepare a couple of extra songs just in case you whizz through in 5 hours, that way you have something to do with the other two)
But if anyones in the Leeds area I can point them in the direction of a very good studio for new bands.

Remember if it isn't perfect the first time, you may as well do it again.[/QUOTE]
:eek: You live in Leeds? So do I.
Do you go to Leeds College of Music, I'm off there next year.
I'm in a band, but we aren't recording a demo just yet.

[QUOTE=guitarist_of_darkness]:eek: You live in Leeds? So do I.
Do you go to Leeds College of Music, I'm off there next year.
I'm in a band, but we aren't recording a demo just yet.[/QUOTE]

I live in huddersfield but Im a first year ND Music tech student at Leeds college of music.

[QUOTE=KKKKKocaine]I live in huddersfield but Im a first year ND Music tech student at Leeds college of music.[/QUOTE]
I should hopefully be starting that course at LCM next year.

[QUOTE=guitarist_of_darkness]I should hopefully be starting that course at LCM next year.[/QUOTE]

You will definately enjoy it, it's a very relaxed atmosphere compared to other sixth forms, much longer breaks, I have 2 days off a week, Lessons and lectures are much more easy going, teachers don't demand stern respect, in fact my MIDI teacher was making fun of my Sound Manipulation teachers name.

"Must be awful being called Cockram, that is to break it up into Cock and then Ram"
Great College.

that last addition was good.

Good issue Kocaine. What's the next one on and when is it coming?

maybe you should do something on album art?