Being the first Tool album i owned, I have to say that it's a great album. Tool gives a great musical quality to everything they do. My personal favorite song would be Parabol/a being the song that caused me to buy this album it was so good. Great review and i agree with it all the way.

[QUOTE=Zappa]Fans of earlier Tool be wary of this. While "Ænima" and "Undertow" are excellent hard rock records, "Lateralus" is an exercise in how [i]not[/i] to do progressive rock. There are 2 good songs, "Parabol/a" and "Lateralis," and that's all. The rest of the album is a snooze, a bunch of prententious artsy farts attempting progressive rock and falling about a mile short. The gimmicky time signatures, the long drawn out instrumental (read sparse and boring) passages, etc, it's all from the book prog. What they forgot is to apply these ideas to good music, like so many bands (like King Crimson, who they seem to be a bit obsessed with) have before them. They lack the maturity and singular vision to conceive an album like this, and it shows on all the tracks besides the 2 I mentioned. 2/5.[/QUOTE]
I see where you're coming from, and this is pretty much how I felt when I first got it. However, it's grown on me, and now I love it.

What were you banned for this time?

Can either of you try and...support the 'bad prog' thing?

I think this is their most prog album

I don't think Zappa is denying it's a prog album, he's just saying it's a badly done prog album. I personally don't know/care whether it's prog or not (that's why I didn't name it prog in the title), I just know it's a rock/metal album that I really love.

Well, I mean if it's just a disagreement on what prog is...meh...

[QUOTE=Bartender]What were you banned for this time?[/QUOTE]
Posting in the "While the Mods Are Away" thread. Ironically, I was telling everyone who read it not to post in the thread. Guess I had to take one for the team...

[quote=The JoZ]Can either of you try and...support the 'bad prog' thing?

I think this is their most prog album[/quote]
No one's saying this isn't a prog album...in fact, this is really their only album that is prog. I dunno if this is exactly what Zappa thinks, but what I thought at first was that the instrumental parts were very boring (like in Reflection....it's a good drum part, but it goes on way too long and nothing changes) and quite frankly, Triad is a boring instrumental. Also, I think they tried to make long songs for the sake of being "prog" and it didn't work out in most cases. Plus, the whole filler thing they do with both Aenima and Lateralus (I can't speak for the other two, as I haven't heard them) is totally lame. They're just trying to push the album to the time limits of what a single disc can hold, and it's a gimmick. It really seemed like they tried to be prog, when they really weren't good at it. That's how I felt at first, but now it's grown on me and I really like it (Aenima is still far superior, though).

I admit there are parts that are longer than they should be. The opening solo in Triad is wicked, and I love the main beat...but after that, it does get boring. Reflection? Sure, the bass and drumlines may not change much, but to me, that song is about atmosphere, and the feeling of it. It's a huge feeling song. The whole 'see how much of the CD we can fill up deal' I don't feel is a gimmick, but filler tracks are. But if you look at it, Lateralus only had 2 filler tracks on it...and one was at the very end...

I mean, if you compare them to Dream Theater, yeah, they aren't changing every 5 bars...

But despite how good DT are, sometimes I think they change too just for the sake of it...

I really don't want to argue about this, because it seems that people conflict over the meaning of 'prog'...so...

[QUOTE=The JoZ]I really don't want to argue about this, because it seems that people conflict over the meaning of 'prog'...so...[/QUOTE]
Everyone agrees that it's prog.

[QUOTE=Kaden3]Everyone agrees that it's prog.[/QUOTE]

Not in R&M they don't...

I have had to defend Tool's prog-ness on more than one occasion in there

I think Tool is way too popular for a prog band. "Prog" is one of those genres used for a band that is limited by how much mainstream success a band can garner, like "punk" or "death metal." Genres like that just don't have mainstream appeal.

Dream Theater, Rush, Yes are all very popular too (or were)...are you going to deny them Prog status too?

[QUOTE=YDload]I think Tool is way too popular for a prog band. "Prog" is one of those genres used for a band that is limited by how much mainstream success a band can garner, like "punk" or "death metal." Genres like that just don't have mainstream appeal.[/QUOTE]
Prog doesn't have to do with how popular it is. Like all genres, it's determined by the sound of the music.

But to challenge that, prog doesn't really have a distinct sound of it's own.

In fact progressive means continuous change, so if there was a particular 'prog sound' that everyone had, the music wouldn't progress.

[QUOTE=Distorted Vision]But to challenge that, prog doesn't really have a distinct sound of it's own.

In fact progressive means continuous change, so if there was a particular 'prog sound' that everyone had, the music wouldn't progress.[/QUOTE]
That's true. I realize people have alot of differing opinions over what prog is, but I think we can all pretty much agree that it isn't decided based on mainstream popularity.

Who said anything about Tool's popularity?

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Who said anything about Tool's popularity?[/QUOTE]
YDload did, he said they're too popular to be prog.

Yeah I know that

I guess a better question should've been "What the hell does their popularity have to do with what genre they are?"

There only really popular to people who have any sort of intrest in rock... i mean i walk into my school n go 'have yu heard of tool' id get more funny looks than responses..

[QUOTE=Distorted Vision]But to challenge that, prog doesn't really have a distinct sound of it's own.

In fact progressive means continuous change, so if there was a particular 'prog sound' that everyone had, the music wouldn't progress.[/QUOTE]

That's just because the definition of prog has changed. Technically, it still means progressive, meaning trying something new in each song. With early prog bands, that's why they were called prog. But then bands which made the same type of music came along, and they were also labelled prog, so now there's really two different meanings for the same genre description - one meaning actually progressing and experimenting beyond what's already been done, and one meaning being as the prog blueprint has become. Dream Theater are a good example of a blueprint band - they're nowhere near being actually progressive.

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Yeah I know that

I guess a better question should've been "What the hell does their popularity have to do with what genre they are?"[/QUOTE]

Well, in my mind the only difference between certain genres such as "punk" and "pop-punk" is that one of them is designated to a band that has gained POPularity. Prog bands such as Yes used to be popular, but nowadays it's not so common. I just think Tool is more of a hard rock band, and their first two albums were definitely not weird enough to cover their entire discography under the "prog" banner.

This album is a true masterpiece 5/5.
Great review

[QUOTE=The JoZ]This is my favorite CD ever...because of the real songs, there are no bad moments at all...except one...where Triad is listed as being 8:46 but really ends at like 6:39 or something :upset:[/QUOTE]

I think they count the minute or two that sits between Triad and the closing track (in negative time).

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Yeah I know that

I guess a better question should've been "What the hell does their popularity have to do with what genre they are?"[/QUOTE]

an even better question is "why do people argue about what genre a band is?"

i really don't understand it, it's really annoying.

in my book, there are two genres, music you like, and music you don't. if only the world could be this simple.

back on topic.

this is my favourite Tool album aswell, and when they have finished with making the next album, hopefully they will tour UK again, and hopefully this time i will be able to see them. last time i missed out, and am still very annoyed at it.

the album itself, just has no end of great music. it's just supreme to the other albums [b]IN MY OPINION[/b], i just love this album. there isn't a bad song on the album. ok, Faaip De Oiad isn't that great, but still, it's quite eerie, and spooky at the same time.

it starts off with an awesome track, and i love the way Eon Blue Apocolypse easily makes the transition from The Grudge to The Patient, i think that's great.

i think there was a name for Disposition, Refelection and Triad, as they were going to be one song, i think it was going to be called Resolution, but i can't really confirm that info.

anyway, great album, probably my favourite of all time. it hasn't left my cd player since i bought the album, it's that d[i][b][/i][/b]amn good.

11/10

Great album, nice review... Lateralus and The Patient are the songs I like the most now... And the bassline on Schism always amazes me... Just great

Oh forgot to say .: 9.5/10

the greatest album i have ever been subjected too.

some awesome comments and a great review of a great album. i love it so much.

10/10

I listened to this album for the first time in a while, and it was amazing. "Parabola" is definitely one of my top three songs of all time; I was almost moved to tears by it for some reason. Great album.

Mine was in the car and someone put it on the floor and stepped on it. Now it's cracked and doesn't work. I am sad. Very sad.

[QUOTE=Bartender]That's just because the definition of prog has changed. Technically, it still means progressive, meaning trying something new in each song. With early prog bands, that's why they were called prog. But then bands which made the same type of music came along, and they were also labelled prog, so now there's really two different meanings for the same genre description - one meaning actually progressing and experimenting beyond what's already been done, and one meaning being as the prog blueprint has become. Dream Theater are a good example of a blueprint band - they're nowhere near being actually progressive.[/QUOTE]

To me, the idea of "progressive" rock, means "progressive" as in progressing from theme to theme, style to style, etc within the context of a single song. That's why so many bands labelled progressive write insanely long songs, or songs with several movements. That's how they flesh out the progression.

This album is brilliant. My rating is a 5/5 Very well written.

To me, this is the epitome of a perfect album...music doesn't get much better than this....

I agree with YDLoad...Parabol always kinda gets me emotional...as well as Reflection, but Reflection more *tear

Great **** album!!!! :thumb:

Great review..... This is one of the best albums i've ever heard. It is dark in some places, but also shows hope when youv'e sunk to the lowest you can get. It is a masterpiece and will surely go down as one of the greats(at least in my book it will=)...................5/5 perfect

[QUOTE=Zappa]To me, the idea of "progressive" rock, means "progressive" as in progressing from theme to theme, style to style, etc within the context of a single song. That's why so many bands labelled progressive write insanely long songs, or songs with several movements. That's how they flesh out the progression.[/QUOTE]

Prog's one of those fancy non-genres that gets tossed around and will probably never be defined (I've heard The Coral and Elbow described as prog, ferchriss'sakes), but that's how I see it too.

This space used to say how much I love Lateralus. Eh, I'm kinda bored of it now. Still a couple of genius songs on there, but it's massively over-rated.

good review, the only problem i have with it is that you rated the patient 4/5 and triad 4/5. If i were you, id seriously give them a better thought. LIke you said they are not the kind that slap you in the face when you first listen. But after a month or 2, those are the ones that seem like gems.

[QUOTE=IvortheEngineDriver]To me, this is the epitome of a perfect album...music doesn't get much better than this....

I agree with YDLoad...Parabol always kinda gets me emotional...as well as Reflection, but Reflection more *tear

Great **** album!!!! :thumb:[/QUOTE]

:eek: that is the exact same thing as me. Reflection just has something about it thats get me all emotional.

Reflection? Meh. I'm all for good bass riffs, but not when they're repeated SIX THOUSAND TIMES! And although the guitar solo is Adam's usual Gilmour-esque slow piece, it's not as emotional as Parabola's.

Lateralus is definately one of my favorite albums. I love everything about it. :)

[QUOTE=YDload]Reflection? Meh. I'm all for good bass riffs, but not when they're repeated SIX THOUSAND TIMES! And although the guitar solo is Adam's usual Gilmour-esque slow piece, it's not as emotional as Parabola's.[/QUOTE]

Well, i was mainly talking about the lyrics or really just how maynard sings in the song.

This was my first Tool album, and when I first got it I didn't like it. I love it now, however, I guess it just needed some time to sink in. Yeah, great album, great band. I don't think that this is their best album,though. Tool has evolved with each release. On Opiate, they were raw and angry. Pure metal. On Undertow, they got a little less raw and they had a message. On Aenima, they got more "progressive", and closer to this album. The playing was awesome, the songs were all awesome, and, yet again we have a "big picture" behind all of the music. Then comes this album, which enough has been said in this thread about already. Which makes me think that the next Tool album will be even more different, and even further away from what popular music is today. So, I guess my point is that, each Tool album is too unique in it's own right to simply name one the best.