You have to listen to the entire album to understand it.

Closer, IIRC, is about him escaping his problems, at least for a little, by sex. Whether it be sex with a lover or sex with a prostitute, I don't remember, but it's a song about him using sex to escape his problems.

[QUOTE=vashts80]You have to listen to the entire album to understand it.

Closer, IIRC, is about him escaping his problems, at least for a little, by sex. Whether it be sex with a lover or sex with a prostitute, I don't remember, but it's a song about him using sex to escape his problems.[/QUOTE]
I've listened to the whole album, i havent really thought about the album as a whole yet though, but that makes sense.
i guess ill let you guys know what i think about the album when i have time to look over the lyrics.
try and get some conversation goin guys :thumb:

Well, regarding The Downward Spiral as a concept album, I really liked the way Trent structured the "storyline" to it. The fact that the character commits suicide on the second to last song, the title track, and then reflects on it all in Hurt I though made the album even more powerful.
And how do you think Reptile fit into the concept? For a part of the song, it sounds like he's referring to a prostitute, but the rest of the lyrics escape me at the moment....

TDS is a concept album. The whole thing follows the story of a person who falls into a deep depression and eventually commits suicide. That's why the album is so powerful, and it has a very thematic flow to each of the songs.

Closer is about him seeking escape from the depression through sex, etc.

My interpretation is the following. This is based on the readings of others' interpretations as well, but it make sense when you listen to the album in this frame of mind, looking at it as all one scenerio through the eyes of another. Basically, TDS lends itself on different levels, both a literal (including satirical illustrations on social aspects) and, in my opinion much more importantly, a metaphorical level as Trent explores the different angles of the human mind.

I'll outline the development of the songs from a literal standpoint, as it's more an independent endeaver to discover the metaphorical messages and themes that run throughout the albums. These are mostly shown through a series of motifs and recurring themes.

Mind you, what I'm saying now is not the definite, set in stone meanings of the songs, but instead what is important to me based on what the storyline of the album is as I've read from other sources.

[B]MSD [/B] shows the character coming to terms with his problems. [B]Piggy[/B], then shows his mind beginning to break down. He feels that his life no longer holds any importance because he's made too many mistakes, thus "nothing can stop me now, because I don't care anymore." [B]Heresy[/B] shows the beginning of him stripping down everything in his life that had any meaning, or perhaps personal importance. Specifically, Heresy is the denouncment of relgion. [B]March Of The Pigs[/B] I'm not quite sure of, but to me it's denouncing the governement, as he points out things he thought were wrong with it, almost comparing it to a Communist regime (with undoubted influence from Animal Farm). Then, as I said, [B]Closer[/B] depicts the character trying to escape himself and his problems through sex.

[B]Ruiner[/B] I think is a very important step in the cycle, and it holds definite prominence in the storyline as a whole. Here, I think Trent explores the reasons for why, when left an isolation, the human mind will turn on itself and basically start destroying itself (as is one of the themes of TDS). The song reeks of decay, etc, which is a very common theme throughout many NIN songs in all of his albums. Notice again, the recurrence of the "Nothing can stop me now." This also important, because it brings full circle more thematic motifs that have become important in the album's development. I think this song is influenced by "The Lord of The Flies" as a symbolic element.

Next, [B]The Becoming[/B] highlights the character's transformation. In songs 1-5, the character feels himself beginning to change, and here is where he talks about that. [B]I Do Not Want This[/B] seems obvious, but for lack of a better explanation or any better insight into its meanings, I guess it's just the wallowing state that depression puts people in.

Now, here with [B]Big Man With A Gun[/B] is another important shift. As with, Ruiner earlier in the album, this is another turning point. Actually, the shift is more at the end of this song, but the actual song is very important in setting it up. Here, his depression and sexual cravings turn into a violent state of fervent and insane rage. The final moment of the song sees Trent screaming "Me and my fu[COLOR=White]c[/COLOR]king gun!" as loud as he can as the chaotic music overtakes his voice. To me, this marks the point where his mind just snaps and he can never go back. He's in too deep now. Nothing will be the same.

And, following that is one of the most powerful songs here, [B]A Warm Place[/B]. As you listen to this, lie down and imagine you're slowling sinking down in a pool of water almost endlessly deep. The sun shines through, but as you sink deeper and deeper, it slowly goes away until darkness overcomes you. Then, [B]Eraser[/B] storms in. Here, he becomes suicidal. [B]Reptile[/B] is about prostitution, but there's a lot more to that song which I don't think I should discuss as this is already long enough.

There's a lot of different points of view here, but [B]The Downward Spiral[/B], to me, is the acutal suicide. Listen to waht's being said and the mood of the song and this will easily make sense. Finally, the album ends on [B]Hurt[/B]. This is the most powerful song on the album, and is the [I]perfect[/I] closer to the album. I think this is the suicide note, but once again, there are different points of view on this (namely the jarring, dissonant chords that end the song are the actual act of suicide).

Okay, I've gone on way too long. But I'm hoping we can use this as a jumpstart into some conversation of what the meanings of each song are on a more metaphorical level and the different themes and messages that are displayed. Look for the leitmotifs and recurring imagery that appear on the album, as it's really fascinating once you delve into it's meanings. Not to mention, it really rocks hard.

Thanks for posting that. Interesting reading.
Pretty much reaffirmed my thoughts about "TDS" and "Hurt" as album closers. The suicide and then the reflection of it. (But I do like your idea of "Hurt" as a suicide note.)

[QUOTE=clearvision]I have listened to TDS a couple of times after people said it was amazing..

am i the only one that doesn't find it great? Hurt is a good song, other than that :confused:[/QUOTE]


this whole band (one man?) is nothing great actually. They have their moments I suppose

[QUOTE=madeyadams]Wow, good job man on that. I never realized it was like that until I read your post. Amazing. Just amazing. As I was reading that, I kinda thought to myself, "this is kind of like The Wall." Which, I realize The Wall is SIMILAR, but I don't feel it's as strong as TDS. TDS has this effect on me, and I can only listen to it when I'm extremely angry or extremely upset. I agree with having the song TDS as the actual suicide.. since I have never realized the album as an actual storyline, I now think to myself about the lyrics in the song TDS, and feel almost empty. Have that being said, Hurt playing the role of the suicide note is brilliant.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your input. It really is a very powerful and unique album when you can see everything it has to offer. That's true, it's almost hard to listen to, but also extremely rewarding. I can't listen to it too much because it's just so disconsolate and heavy (not in a musical sense, but an emotional one). But that's part of what makes it so great and powerful.

I never thought of Hurt as a suicide note; more an afterthought. I did always think of it as 'occurring' after the fact, though.

I am looking foward to the new NIN more then anything.

I've heard "The Line Begins to Blur" and "The Hand that Feeds".

So far the new album sounds exceptional. I can't wait till may.

I'm holding off from listening to those songs until they're released. Everytime I've downloaded leaked tracks from an album before it comes out, I end up enjoying it less.

i personally can't wait for it. i only became a big NIN fan this past summer, and since then i have gotten all 3 studio albums, plus 2 eps (broken and march of the pigs). I think it's going to be great, but it cant be as good as TDS.

but if they dont tour canada...:upset:

I didn't realize they had announced a full blown European tour yet.

What a load of shi[COLOR=White]t[/COLOR], they're going to be in Europe until July?? I was hoping I'd see them sooner than that.

i've always thought of Hurt as someone creating a hell on earth through the things they've done and then running away from it all but keeping the experiences with them, but the suicide note idea puts a whole new light on it

[QUOTE=keeponslipping]i've always thought of Hurt as someone creating a hell on earth through the things they've done and then running away from it all but keeping the experiences with them, but the suicide note idea puts a whole new light on it[/QUOTE]

yeah, I think that's an interesting aspect of looking at it. At it's core, it's a song about reflection and regret, but basically I think it manifests itself in the form of a suicide note in order to tie in with the rest of the album. It also really highlights a lot of the themes that Reznor writes about in the rest of the album, as well as the fact that no matter how dark the human mind gets, there's always some kind of conscience.

i am curious to see how dave grohl's drumming fits into the nin musical landscape. should be pretty good stuff.. why did he name the cd white teeth? i heard he named it after dave's teeth.
i will definately be buying it when it comes here in korea. why was there such a long break between albums?

The new album should be good, I'm looking foward to it.

That, and the fact that Trent does a lot more in between making albums than just working on NIN material. In between this album, there was a lot of work he did, including the Doom 3 soundtrack, etc etc. Not to mention the new releases of TDS.

And, yes, it was originally going to be named Bleedthrough, but as the concepts and feel of the album progressed, he felt like that name no longer applied. I'm actually glad, because Bleedthrough is cool, but just a little generic.

And Dave Grohl's drumming probably won't have a huge impact on the sound of the new record. When Trent records live drums (as he often does), he samples them, runs them through many synths, and then uses them as the drum patterns. So, unless there's been a radical shift in that process, I think Grohl was mainly there because he can come up with good beats and is a solid drummer.

And because he's known. Can't hurt to have a known musician's name on a record, whether they're actually really contributing anything or not.

[QUOTE=Bartender]And because he's known. Can't hurt to have a known musician's name on a record, whether they're actually really contributing anything or not.[/QUOTE]

That's a good point. I also think it might have something to do with the fact that they're probably good friends. It's like, "hey, I have this friend that happens to be an awesome drummer and I need someone to do drums on this record." So why not call him up? I doubt there was too much collaborating on Grohl's part, but it might be interesting to see if there has been anything to that extent done.

I've always seen "The Becoming" as a single song...

i beat my machine
it's a part of me
it's inside of me
i'm stuck in this dream
it's changing me
i am becoming

the me that you know he had some second thoughts
he's covered with scabs he is broken and sore
the me that you know he doesn't come around much
that part of me isn't here anymore

all pain disappears
it's the nature of
of my circuitry
drowns out all i hear
there's no escape from this
my new consciousness

the me that you know he used to have feelings
but the blood has stopped pumping and he is left to decay
the me that you know is now made up of wires
and even when i'm right with you i'm so far away

i can try to get away but i've strapped myself in
i can try to scratch away the sound in my ears
i can see it killing away all of my bad parts
i don't want to listen but it's all too clear

hiding backwards inside of me
i feel so unafraid
annie, hold a little tighter
i might just slip away

it won't give up it wants me dead
and god**** this noise inside my head


the lyrics were for reference, because i dont remember the lyrics off the top of my head. so on to the interpretation...

The whole machine thing i think is reffering to maybe a state of mind that he wants to unlock or something. the line "i beat my machine its a part of me, its inside of me" is where im getting that from.

The "im stuck in this dream part" to me, is like its finally happening, the thing hes wanted for quite awhile...
and the chorus is about him not being the person he used to be, hes almost ok now, but i dont really see it as happy, i see it more of, he used to be really depressed, but now he just doesnt care about it, because hes made the decision that hes going to commit suicide.

The 2nd verse is maybe talking about his new consciousness and how he just doesnt care anymore because this new way of thinking is starting to take over.

The 2nd chorus doesnt go with my "theory" at all really, but i sort of see the "wires" as the new way of thinking. and the "even though im right with you, im so far away..." part is the line that doesnt quite make sense, well, it doesnt quite go with my theory i mean, because its saying he might be there with someone, but hes not really "there"... meaning hes not concious... and i dont really get that part.

the bridge part i think is talking about how hes finally done it, and theres no going back, and the "its killing all my bad parts" part is about how the new way of thinking is killing all the depression and making him better.

im gonna do the reast later... im at a birthday party thingy... and its really loud and i cant think.. so ill finish this later :thumb:\but this is how I see the song... so yeah, i know most of you might not agree.

Magic did you read my interpretation of the whole album? Your explanation is good as a single song, like you said, but if you look at it in the context of the album, I think it stands as more of a reflective song than one of any real progression thematically.

[QUOTE=murray_lindsay]i am curious to see how dave grohl's drumming fits into the nin musical landscape. should be pretty good stuff.. why did he name the cd white teeth? i heard he named it after dave's teeth.
i will definately be buying it when it comes here in korea. why was there such a long break between albums?[/QUOTE]
its called "with teeth"...
not "white teeth"...

[QUOTE=Kage]Magic did you read my interpretation of the whole album? Your explanation is good as a single song, like you said, but if you look at it in the context of the album, I think it stands as more of a reflective song than one of any real progression thematically.[/QUOTE]
yeah i know, thats the way i saw it before i even thought about the suicide thing, i know it makes no sense when looking at it from your guys' point of view. but thats how i see it.

I can't wait for this d'amn album to be released...there's actually going to be a "preview party" in Houston (in case anyone lives around the area) where they're gonna play the album in its entirely on March. 30th and they're gonna be passing out posters and stuff...should be interesting...Wish I could drive up and attend but i can't..D'amn college!

Yeah, I'm serious...check it out here:
[url]http://www.numbersnightclub.com/index.php?page=upcoming[/url]

there's even gonna be "new exclusive footage".
anyone live in houston and may consider attending?

road trip! Ahh, i'm thinking about ditching school that day..and the following and going home to Houston...it's just a three hour trip from here anyway

[QUOTE=misunderstood]Yeah, I'm serious...check it out here:
[url]http://www.numbersnightclub.com/index.php?page=upcoming[/url]

there's even gonna be "new exclusive footage".
anyone live in houston and may consider attending?[/QUOTE]

Holy shi[COLOR=White]t[/COLOR], dude I live in Houston. This is fu[COLOR=White]c[/COLOR]king amazing. I'm definately going to this!

am i the only one whos heard about the possible TOOL/NIN tour coming up this summer? ive heard the radio talk about it a few times. imagine that **** dude....tool and nin on the same bill. thats a ****ED up show if i ever could imagine one.

[QUOTE=Loverman519]am i the only one whos heard about the possible TOOL/NIN tour coming up this summer? ive heard the radio talk about it a few times. imagine that **** dude....tool and nin on the same bill. thats a ****ED up show if i ever could imagine one.[/QUOTE]

That would be amazing. I'm pissed that I missed the NIN/APC tour a few years back, but Tool/NIN would be ten times better than that. Still, I don't know if I see that happening.

If that is true, it will definitely be my favourite tour EVER. Man, I get wet just thinking about it...