[QUOTE]13" will sound "tighter" with more stick definition and the 14" will sound more washy[/QUOTE]

In that case I'll get the 13's, but that won't make them any less loud would it?

[QUOTE=skadrummer411]In that case I'll get the 13's, but that won't make them any less loud would it?[/QUOTE]

slightly

[QUOTE=Der Meister]13" will sound "tighter" with more stick definition and the 14" will sound more washy[/QUOTE]

I'd also say that 14"'s are usually "chunkier" sounding, although that's not to say 13"'s can't be chunky, but that 14"'s are generally chunkier. 13"'s are also usually higher in pitch than 14"'s, but that will vary from series to series.

[quote]In that case I'll get the 13's, but that won't make them any less loud would it?[/quote]

actually, the 13's should sound a bit louder.

I think volume is more to do with the bell isn't it?

I always thought larger bell = louder. Or does the larger bell just raise the pitch?

I think its the metal that changes the pitch, and maybe the thickness and density too.

the alloy from which it is made is obviously one of the main tonal changers, also the thickness would matter. but most of all the size would make a big difference in the pitch of the cymbal. also the lathing would make a diff.

Yeah come to think of it, lathing and hammering makes a huge difference.

[QUOTE=Der Meister]I always thought larger bell = louder. Or does the larger bell just raise the pitch?[/QUOTE]

Larger the bell, the greater the volume, all other things being equal. Or so I thought.

I thought I remembered reading about this on the Zildjian website.
[quote=Zildjian.com]Bell
All other factors being equal, the bell or cup size determines the amount of overtones or ring projected by a cymbal. A larger bell produces more overtones and a longer full-bodied sound. A smaller bell reduces ring and sustain and provides a more defined stick sound for riding.

Profile
Degree of curvature from the cup to the edge. The profile or "bow" of a cymbal affects its pitch and overtones. Higher profile cymbals will be higher in pitch and have fewer overtones. Flatter profile cymbals will be lower in pitch and have more overtones.

Taper
Degree to which the cymbal changes in thickness from cup to the edge. The design of the taper will contribute to the amount of Crash-like of Ride-like qualities in the cymbal.[/quote]
Source:
[url]http://www.zildjian.com/EN-US/zildjianu/101_cymbal.ad2[/url]

This just in:
14" Zildjian New Beat hats kick major ***

That is all

[QUOTE=British Boy]I think volume is more to do with the bell isn't it?[/QUOTE]

partly. but where your talking hats, a 13" pairing of the same model would genneraly sound sharper and louder than the 14" Sibiling. weather or not becibel wise they are louder or not, who cares...they SEEM louder due to the higher pitch.

[quote]I always thought larger bell = louder. Or does the larger bell just raise the pitch?[/quote]

bell size affects volume and overtones. a crash that is identical in all ways (save for the bell) should be louder if the bell was bigger, but tighter sounding if it was smaller.

[quote]I think its the metal that changes the pitch, and maybe the thickness and density too.[/quote]

yep. your right. a thicker cymbal will be louder (and brighter) than an equal one that is thinner

[quote]also the lathing would make a diff.[/quote]

probably not as much as you'd think....wider lathings would be a more wide open sound, tighter lathings would yeild a more focused sound...hence why the AAX's seem to respond better under lower volumes than say, a matching AA model.

bell size also determines how cutting it is along with thickness. A cymbal with a bigger bell will be more agressive.

Q: i would like a ride cymbal, probably 20" but i am in New Zealand where cymbal prices are quite high, i would also like the ride to be reasonably priced, and quite versatile, i am not too fussed about brands, but sabian zildjian and paiste are definantly the easiest rides to get your hands on

[QUOTE=mprules]Q: i would like a ride cymbal, probably 20" but i am in New Zealand where cymbal prices are quite high, i would also like the ride to be reasonably priced, and quite versatile, i am not too fussed about brands, but sabian zildjian and paiste are definantly the easiest rides to get your hands on[/QUOTE]

Well, this one is pretty expensive, but I reccomend the Sabian HH Raw Bell dry ride. Amazing.

yeah a raw bell dry ride would work pretty well. either that or some kind of zildjian A series, they are always very versatile.

[QUOTE=TheMightyTrym]Well, this one is pretty expensive, but I reccomend the Sabian HH Raw Bell dry ride. Amazing.[/QUOTE]

/agrees

Partly 'cause I have it, but mostly 'cause it rocks. :p

i'd say if you can find an AA ride of some sort, you'll have a leg up on things. they should be priced in the middle somewhere.

I'm currently playing 14" New Beats, 18" A Custom crash, and a 21" Sweet Ride.
I like the New Beats a lot, but I feel like they're too heavy and cumbersome sometimes. I'm looking for a pair of hats that are a little more responsive and articulate with a very smooth open sound and a solid chick. I'm not looking for a specific price range or brand, just curious if I can find all those qualities in a pair of hats. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

try some AA Regular hats maybe?

I thought AA Regulars were basically Sabian's version of New Beats. Is this not the case?

i dont know,..i thought new beats were a fairly heavy pairing....the Regs are a Medium top/heavy bottom pairing....other than that, the lightest you'll find in sabians parings are AAX Studio Hats (Medium-thin/medium) or HHX Manhattan Jazz hats (same i think)

Ok, I need cymbals that are versatile so they can be played for rock/punk rock.

1) A ride cymbal that has VERY Clear stick definition with MINIMUM overtones.

2) 2 crash cymbals that have medium to long overtones, quick response or something like that. Possibly slightly dark sound, maybe not-so-bright sound, depending on what you can find. Please include sizes of the cymbals.

3) Quick response splash cymbal. I have a bright one right now and i would like to have a lower sound to counter it in a way, so a lower sounding splash would be nice.

4) A couple ideas for cool effect cymbals. I saw a post on an Ice Bell and thought that was cool. I also saw a stage bell. So if anyone could just give out a few ideas that would be cool.

If you could, please include prices and sizes so I could get a good idea for all these. Thank you for the time

[quote]1) A ride cymbal that has VERY Clear stick definition with MINIMUM overtones.[/quote]

a 20" + cymbal is obviously going to have some overtones...it just is impossible to not have it...having said that, an A. Zildjian Earth Ride is as defined and dry as they come.

[quote]2) 2 crash cymbals that have medium to long overtones, quick response or something like that. Possibly slightly dark sound, maybe not-so-bright sound, depending on what you can find. Please include sizes of the cymbals.[/quote]

sounds like 17" and 19" HHX Stage Crashes to me.

[quote]3) Quick response splash cymbal. I have a bright one right now and i would like to have a lower sound to counter it in a way, so a lower sounding splash would be nice.[/quote]

try the same splash in a bigger size?

[quote]4) A couple ideas for cool effect cymbals. I saw a post on an Ice Bell and thought that was cool. I also saw a stage bell. So if anyone could just give out a few ideas that would be cool.[/quote]

stage bell/icebell...same idea...perhaps a trash crash or china

[quote]
If you could, please include prices and sizes so I could get a good idea for all these. Thank you for the time[/quote]

get your *** to [url]www.musiciansfriend.com[/url] and check the prices yourself.

Thanks bobby johnny. I'll look into the AA Regular hats and see if they're the sound I'm hearing in my head. I don't want to lose the feel and versatility of New Beat style hats, I just want something a little more controllable.

Troy9915- 1 try the AAX Tight ride 20"
2 The HH Medium Crash and the K custom dark crash medium thin both 18"
3 The HH Splash 10" or the k custom 10" dark splash
4 Sabian- 6"/9"/12" Ice bells, 6"/7"/8" radia bell chimes,6"/8"/10" CD discs, thunder sheets
Zildjian- ZXT transformer, Earth plates high and low,9"/11" trash splash,18"/20" crash of doom, 16" A FX,18" A Breakbeat ride, 18" A swish, 22" A swish Knocker
Paiste-Mega cup chime 13", 12" flanger bell
Meinl-Gen X filter china 8"/10"/12"/14"/16",

^^^

good luck finding a spot for 1/2 of those cymbals in a punk tune.

ohhhh, I missed that they're for punk rock/rock, but meh he can find a way, just don't go buying them right away, before trying them....

Would a Sabian AAX Studio Crash be a good compliment for an 18' Zildjian A Medium Crash?

China Cymbal to complement:

14" A Custom Mastersound Hats
18" A Custom Fast Crash
16" A Custom Projection Crash
18" Zildjian A Medium Thin Crash
20" A Custom Ping Ride
10" A Custom Splash

I was thinking the 18" Oriental Trash China or the 18" A Custom China. Does anyone have any other ideas or are these good?

The AA China might do it for ya, but I think the China Trash should work also look into the B8 pro china and the Paiste 2002 chinas also.....

[QUOTE=MXicanDrummer]Would a Sabian AAX Studio Crash be a good compliment for an 18' Zildjian A Medium Crash?[/QUOTE]

sure would. try the stage crash too though.

[quote]China Cymbal to complement:

14" A Custom Mastersound Hats
18" A Custom Fast Crash
16" A Custom Projection Crash
18" Zildjian A Medium Thin Crash
20" A Custom Ping Ride
10" A Custom Splash[/quote]

B8 Pro Chinese....i mean this in all seriousness....

One more question, is there enough of a difference between a Sabian AAX studio crash and stage crash to want to buy one of each (instead of having two of the same. I want to have 3 crashes, 2 Sabian 16 inch AAX's and an 18' Zildjian A Medium Crash)

^^^

sure would be. the Stage is a medium-thin, and the studio is a thin....you could go for a 17" stage for a good blend.

16" thin
17" medium-thin
18" medium

...****...that sounds like a real nice mix there actually.

god bless you bobbyjohnny

mmmmmmm AAX stage crash.

Final question (for my cymbal dream set) what are your opinions on the zildjian Ping Ride and Sweet ride, and what other rides would go good with the crash assembly previously mentioned and a pair of New Beat Hihats

hey guys, just lookin for some opinions on sabian hhx evolution cymbals..
i really love the ride cos its light, pingy and its crashable..
i really like there crashs because they dont linger on for ever and they are nice and bright yet dark at the same time..
also i really liked zild session k customs 14" hats i think.. they sounded soo cool.. my dream hhx groove hats dont seem to compare :/

so what you guys think?
btw, i play like lightish rock, nothing heavy so i like to keep my cymbals thin to medium thin..

[QUOTE=MXicanDrummer]Final question (for my cymbal dream set) what are your opinions on the zildjian Ping Ride and Sweet ride, and what other rides would go good with the crash assembly previously mentioned and a pair of New Beat Hihats[/QUOTE]

The ping rides are awesome. I plan to get an A 22" myself (don't bother with A Custom rides, I heard they weren't that great).

What would go well with that and New Beats? Probably an 18" Zildjian A Medium Crash, or if you want to save money get a Sabian 18" AA Medium crash, practically the same thing.