Okay, I've figured out what I was doing wrong, so I've got it under control. I was clearing my throat the "wrong way" which is just the same as screaming the wrong way, and it was griding everything together, and scratching everything up. Then basically any kind of vibration just makes it worse.

I'm new to the forum and i've read a lot of your scream posts, but i'm still having the hardest time screaming.
See i'm aiming for an underoath high pitch scream.
I've been doing some of your techniques like isolation and stuff but i still can't get it.
Is there some other way to do this?

[QUOTE=adz_18]Merkaba, just out of interest, what is your overall vocal range, and your individual range for chest, head and falsetto? Sorry if this has been asked, but i don't recall someone asking.

It would be pretty cool if you uploaded an audio clip of yourself demonstrating your vocal range - to show us how things should be sounding in the extremes.

Also, I thought of something that might be able to help you show people the difference between the registers, because a lot of people are asking 'is this in head or falsetto' or (as in my case) find it hard to distinguish between chest and head. So here's the idea...

What I think would be a good idea would be for you to post an audio clip of yourself singing the same note in all three registers, and then state which of these registers would GENERALLY be the correct one to sing that note in. So, for example, you could do something like "this is what D4 sounds like when sung in chest voice.... now this is what D4 sounds like when sung in head... and now falsetto etc." That way I think it would illustrate how the different registers sound when doing the same thing. If it's too hard to find a note that is possible to be sung in all three registers, then maybe choose one note to show the difference between chest/head and then a higher one to show the difference between head/falsetto. What do you think?[/QUOTE]Yea, we actually had a "whats your range?" thread a few months ago. no big deal.

My usable range is from about the second E below middle c (if I were to do something slow and/or crooney) and up to C6, the second above middle C. To do anything up here would be slow also, or only as a trill or grace notes. Slow operatics maybe like Jeff buckley's Corpus Christi Carol. I start falsetto right around high A. Typical baritone. I wouldnt feel comfortable singing much falsetto past that G5 or A5. With a good warm up and practice I can get whistle notes all the way through to the next C, C7. By the way, if you've never heard of Adam Lopez check him out. World record holder. The poppy stuff is not my thing but the classical is cool. And the way he can make his voice sound like a violin is , well Incredible. go here. And scroll down. Be sure to listen to Georgia Brown as well. That stuff really makes me want to work on my whistle notes whenever I hear it. Dammit. [url]http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html[/url]Warning! Incredible voices on this page! Things like male soprano's in head voice! Warning.

I use to record a bit but I now have up and downstairs neighbors in my apartment. I hate that. Plus I work 12 hours third shift. But maybe I'll try to get something like this done.

[QUOTE=Visti]Merkaba, would it be too much trouble if you could post a clip of you singing with some music maybe? My voice is completely different and relaxed when singing to music, but when I do excercises and such, it's strained and my range feels a lot smaller. I'm guessing that really shouldn't be the case.[/QUOTE]
Shouldnt be the case at all. Youre probably thinking too much and tensing up, trying to be too perfect. Relax, miss and crap out notes. Its ok.

[QUOTE=Semple]I hope it isn't too much to ask, but I need a few suggestions.


Okay, I just recently started screaming. Now, I'm almost 100% sure that I'm not doing it the wrong way, because I warm up, I don't close my throat, and I make the rasp by air rolling up the back of the throat, before the chords.


Anyway, for some reason, I still experience some pain and discomfort during and after screaming, followed by increased mucous production after stopping all vocal activity. It doesn't last any longer than 12 hours, but it's a bitch.


Any help would be appreciated,
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
:lol: Keyword. Almost. Youre just not gonna get another answer out of me. You should never have pain or any kind of discomfort from singing or screaming. Maybe someone else, usually that doesnt have a clue, will say its ok for a little or this or that. There is something youre doing wrong. Pain and mucus....there's not many other signs until you do something more damaging! Back off...learn to rasp at 50% volume. Be sure as hell that youre warming DOWN as well. As far as I'm concerned you should never stop "vocal activity". I'm doing something all day long. Even if its very light. Of course I like to sing normally as well. Which most people don't seem to be interested in nowadays. And there is no way you should be clearing your throat that much or that hard to cause pain and mucus!

[QUOTE=crash_this]I'm new to the forum and i've read a lot of your scream posts, but i'm still having the hardest time screaming.
See i'm aiming for an underoath high pitch scream.
I've been doing some of your techniques like isolation and stuff but i still can't get it.
Is there some other way to do this?[/QUOTE]
Well, first you have to realize that that type of scream may be impossible for you.

Now that we've got that out of the way, remember there are basses, baritones, tenors, countertenors...etc. I'm familiar with Young and aspriring or whatever it is. That scream would probably be termed "falsetto scream" but I bet its a totally choked off raspy head. At least thats the position I would have to go to get it. Have you listened to the samples? Isolation is more of a concept. ITs not gonna really help you get a scream.

I think I may just be screaming too loud.

[QUOTE] Well, first you have to realize that that type of scream may be impossible for you.

Now that we've got that out of the way, remember there are basses, baritones, tenors, countertenors...etc. I'm familiar with Young and aspriring or whatever it is. That scream would probably be termed "falsetto scream" but I bet its a totally choked off raspy head. At least thats the position I would have to go to get it. Have you listened to the samples? Isolation is more of a concept. ITs not gonna really help you get a scream.[/QUOTE]

Alrihgt man thanks.
So i may never get that type of scream.
So basically your saying I have to stay in my range that I can achieve through whatever i am "bass, baritone etc"..Thanks I'll keep working on it and try what i can :)

[QUOTE=crash_this]Alrihgt man thanks.
So i may never get that type of scream.
So basically your saying I have to stay in my range that I can achieve through whatever i am "bass, baritone etc"..Thanks I'll keep working on it and try what i can :)[/QUOTE]
May or may not. Some people cant even access their head voice. So as far as we know you might not be either. Or you could be singing so incorrectly that youre cramping alot of your range. The thing is to try to sing the note youre trying to scream first. You gotta be able to sing it before you can add anything to it. Alot of people try so hard to blast a scream that they can't even get the note/tone they are trying to achieve. Maybe post a sample of you singing/screaming or whatever. Or preferably of you doing some rising scales from around middle C.

Recently I've been experimenting with my voice, trying to open it up and attain use of it. I am no vocalist, and I have had no teaching of any kind, but I would very much like to have a voice to use when I need it.

[url]http://www.soundclick.com/lowexpectations[/url]
The top song, (White Maple Monsters) is something I put together yesterday on a whim, its rather rough, but criticism and tips (perhaps bashing, if you feel so inclined, but I already know I have a long way to go) on my vocals would be very much appreciated. The instrumentals are also me (except for the drum machine.)

It's good to get help early on, so as to not develop bad habits and such. Also, is this something I should keep persuing? I don't want to spend too much time if I don't have some sort of potential for something good.

[QUOTE=LowExpectations]Recently I've been experimenting with my voice, trying to open it up and attain use of it. I am no vocalist, and I have had no teaching of any kind, but I would very much like to have a voice to use when I need it.

[url]http://www.soundclick.com/lowexpectations[/url]
The top song, (White Maple Monsters) is something I put together yesterday on a whim, its rather rough, but criticism and tips (perhaps bashing, if you feel so inclined, but I already know I have a long way to go) on my vocals would be very much appreciated. The instrumentals are also me (except for the drum machine.)

It's good to get help early on, so as to not develop bad habits and such. Also, is this something I should keep persuing? I don't want to spend too much time if I don't have some sort of potential for something good.[/QUOTE]

Well i've heard way worse. Sounds like youre holding back a bit. And sounds like you just might be pushing your tongue root down which makes the sound kinda open sounding. This can be ok at times. But in general you should think about keeping your tongue relaxed and many times around your bottom front teeth. This is general stuff to give you an idea. By no means should you think about doing it all the time. But think about it and practice singing holding the ING sound. Sounds like your breath support is decent but could probably be better. I dont know how youre trying to sing either. But I would say practice doing an AH at speaking voice level. without moving anything at all. Just open your mouth and let it go. Keep practicing.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]May or may not. Some people cant even access their head voice. So as far as we know you might not be either. Or you could be singing so incorrectly that youre cramping alot of your range. The thing is to try to sing the note youre trying to scream first. You gotta be able to sing it before you can add anything to it. Alot of people try so hard to blast a scream that they can't even get the note/tone they are trying to achieve. Maybe post a sample of you singing/screaming or whatever. Or preferably of you doing some rising scales from around middle C.[/QUOTE]\

See I can't even sing really. Thats probably my first problem that I should fix haha

Definitely should be the first.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]

My usable range is from about the second E below middle c (if I were to do something slow and/or crooney) and up to C6, the second above middle C. To do anything up here would be slow also, or only as a trill or grace notes. Slow operatics maybe like Jeff buckley's Corpus Christi Carol. I start falsetto right around high A. Typical baritone. I wouldnt feel comfortable singing much falsetto past that G5 or A5. With a good warm up and practice I can get whistle notes all the way through to the next C, C7. By the way, if you've never heard of Adam Lopez check him out. World record holder. The poppy stuff is not my thing but the classical is cool. And the way he can make his voice sound like a violin is , well Incredible. go here. And scroll down. Be sure to listen to Georgia Brown as well. That stuff really makes me want to work on my whistle notes whenever I hear it. Dammit. [url]http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html[/url]Warning! Incredible voices on this page! Things like male soprano's in head voice! Warning.[/QUOTE]


Yeah I've been checking out that site for quite a while. Very good site, and some unbelievable voices. The really low notes are also interesting - a phenomenon i believe is called 'vocal fry'.

But you have to tell me, that audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. What do you think?

Btw, impressive range, particularly that you can do the whistle register. Not only can i not do whistle register, but something i wouldn't even know how to begin doing lol

Merkaba, what's your top head voice note? I think you included falsetto in that range description, right?. A C6 in full voice is :eek:.

My whistle notes are improving a bit, but I'm not working on them at the moment seeing that I won't use them as much as head/mix voice. I can now get to an E6 comfortabley, but still it sounds like a squeak.

By the way, I know a guy over the internet who can sing a C8, possibly even higher. I know it's insane, I think I have a voice clip somewhere.

"I start falsetto right around high A"

This would insinuate that his highest head voice note would generally be G# above middle C.

sup merkaba, I listented to your voice recordings, very nice tutorial :D

Anyway I can sing to like E5 or F5 if I pull chest(go louder), but
if I'm just singing quietly I seem to have this bridge/transition at C5.

Then I have this thing above it where it sounds like im singing opera or
something, is that falsetto or something? I've been doing humming and stuff
trying to find head voice, shouldnt it be right after the chest voice ends
without straining(C5 for me).

I need a few tips. I read up all the required reading and have started to put it into practice, but I still have a few pitfalls. I'll describe it as best I can point by point, and if needed I can send uploads of particular songs I reference.

First off, I won't be able to get real vocal lessons until this fall, which is kind of a drag. Until then, I've been trying to ease into the routine, building up a clean voice until I could scream comfortably.

Inspired by Wuthering Heights' vocalist, Nils Patrick Johansson, I've been trying to build up a variety of styles and sounds to better express a variety of emotions. I'm a bass/baritone, which has made opening up my head voice a challenge, and my range is still somewhat limited. To compensate, I've been experimenting with a crooning clean singing style, harsh vocals, screams, and growls. I've decided to adamantly avoid the Cradle of Filth style of inhaling while vocalizing as I'd rather not step into territory that inherently risky. Even if I don't pursue singing as more than a hobby, I still have a powerful, distinctive speaking voice that I've already been taking great precautions to avoid damaging as it is a big asset to me.

My clean vocals are progressing well, though I'm still having trouble with falsetto and vibrato. I really could use some added advice in building up my head voice, as well as figuring out the source of vibrato so that I can actually do it right. I also have a hard rock voice that basically is a sort of lupine snarl. I'm fine for the first songs, but then I start to notice my vocal cords getting fatigued. Am I still just carrying too much tensions in my throat?

For harsh vocals, the rasp sometimes goes out on me toward the end of a line and it's more of a surly clean vocal style. At the moment, I have a sound like a deeper voiced Alexi Laiho or Petri Lindroos, but one bad habit I'm still trying to break is the fact that my tongue keep reaching toward the back of my throat and constricting the sound.

For my screams, progress is a little slower. Time and again I would come close to blowing my voice out and would stop at the first sign of any pain. I managed to get Michale Graves' scream from Helena by The Misfits, but the top and back of my throat keep tensing up creating a lot of uncomfortable pressure. Are there any specific exercises I can use to get past this?

The growling is a similar issue. I have a decent mid-range sound, but almost no low end. It comes out way too airy and with very little guttural rasp by comparison.

On the positive side, it's very easy for me to transition between styles, and it's becoming easier and easier every day to shift from my chest voice to the notes resonating in the nasal passages.

I just listen to Merkabas voice samples and I have a question. How loud are you singing?

To me it sounds kind of quieter than what I might expect from an all out scream, is that just due to the recording or are yo keeping the volume quite low intentionally?

I was just wondring if maybe I'm wasting energy trying to go loud to make it sound powerful and all out, Into a mic will a good deal of compression help it sound loud even if its pretty held back?

[QUOTE=GDan]I just listen to Merkabas voice samples and I have a question. How loud are you singing?

To me it sounds kind of quieter than what I might expect from an all out scream, is that just due to the recording or are yo keeping the volume quite low intentionally?

I was just wondring if maybe I'm wasting energy trying to go loud to make it sound powerful and all out, Into a mic will a good deal of compression help it sound loud even if its pretty held back?[/QUOTE]
I wasnt too loud. I was doing most of that stuff at around 2 or so am. But it was optimally loud enough for a mic. I mean I wouldve pushed a little more If I were doing a serious recording, but with your mic at a decent level you dont even have to worry about compression....unless youre heading into a studio...in my opinion. If you havent sang into a mic in a while, in like a studio or stage setup, you'll probably realize that you dont have to push alot once you do. Maybe I'll post another if I can ever get off of my a[I]s[/I]s.

hello...ive been doing my best to keep up with your little lessons things, and id like to say thank sfor the help.

ive been toying around with vocals for a bit just for something new really..ive been playing guitar for ages and adding vocals just makes it that much more enjoyable. however i dont know how to find my own voice. i can sing along to other artists (usually dallas green, radiohead..things of this sort) but i dont know how to find my own voice..the one that suits my vocal chords the best. im also having a hard time controlling my voice....somedays its good..other days its bad enough to make me put down the guitar haha.

so ill keep on your warm up examples and such and see where i can get with that and any extra info would be much appreciated.

thanks

hey merkaba,

a while back i asked you to check out my bands page and let me know what you thought of the vocals that i sung in the song that was on the page... Well we've redone the vocals mixed it in with the existing instruments. I tried to do some of the things you said and i think it does sound better than the first effort. if you could have a listen and tell me what you reckon that'd be great. the website is [url]http://www.myspace.com/opshopninja[/url] and it's the song 'colourblind'... thanks man.

[QUOTE=are_we_art_fags]hello...ive been doing my best to keep up with your little lessons things, and id like to say thank sfor the help.

ive been toying around with vocals for a bit just for something new really..ive been playing guitar for ages and adding vocals just makes it that much more enjoyable. however i dont know how to find my own voice. i can sing along to other artists (usually dallas green, radiohead..things of this sort) but i dont know how to find my own voice..the one that suits my vocal chords the best. im also having a hard time controlling my voice....somedays its good..other days its bad enough to make me put down the guitar haha.

so ill keep on your warm up examples and such and see where i can get with that and any extra info would be much appreciated.

thanks[/QUOTE]
If you can't find your own voice right now just continue to practice the best you can by singing others. For some that start off singing by mimmicking its the only way. Its like training wheels. I was the same way. Over time and various influences you find out what you can and can't do which helps you settle out. You can always practice by just not trying to match the singer youre mimmicking. I do it now when singing stuff out of my range because if you try to match everthing you will usually end up tensing things up. When I relax and say just sing it in your own voice, I ALWAYS, ALWAYS do better. Just continue to practice and relax and it will come when its ready. At least youre getting experience and working the cords. Again don't be afraid to push your limits as long as you have no hoarseness and no pain.

[QUOTE=adz_18]hey merkaba,

a while back i asked you to check out my bands page and let me know what you thought of the vocals that i sung in the song that was on the page... Well we've redone the vocals mixed it in with the existing instruments. I tried to do some of the things you said and i think it does sound better than the first effort. if you could have a listen and tell me what you reckon that'd be great. the website is [url]http://www.myspace.com/opshopninja[/url] and it's the song 'colourblind'... thanks man.[/QUOTE]
Dude, from what I remember that, to me, sounds twice as good. Keep it up. Just think where you'll be after a while! I can tell youre working to hold the notes a little more stronger with some more support. Keep the lower jaw loose and come from the gut. Don't be afraid to sing even harder,(a bit over time)without rasp, and it will probably get even better. If you experience hoarseness or pain then you know you need to back off and reevaluate. Keep at it! Good job dude! :thumb:

[QUOTE=Merkaba]
Dude, from what I remember that, to me, sounds twice as good. Keep it up. Just think where you'll be after a while! I can tell youre working to hold the notes a little more stronger with some more support. Keep the lower jaw loose and come from the gut. Don't be afraid to sing even harder,(a bit over time)without rasp, and it will probably get even better. If you experience hoarseness or pain then you know you need to back off and reevaluate. Keep at it! Good job dude! :thumb:[/QUOTE]

Cooool lol, that's always good to hear! Yeah I'm still trying to work on coming from the gut more. I think it's getting better but yeh still need to work on it. I'll keep doing the exercises you have outlined in other threads and hopefully things can keep improving. Thanks for your support/suggestions and time man!

Oh yeah, I've been wondering if you could clarify this for me.... on that website [url]http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html[/url] there's an audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. I generally think of head voice as highish in pitch but also with power, eg. chorus of 'livin on a prayer' by bon jovi, or many things sung by chris cornell or freddie mercury... Am I correct or am I missing something?

[QUOTE=adz_18]Oh yeah, I've been wondering if you could clarify this for me.... on that website [url]http://www.dutchdivas.net/frames/highC.html[/url] there's an audio clip of male-soprano (contradiction??) David Newman.. it says he sings that all in head voice. That REALLY sounds like falsetto to me! Very high pitched and airy sounding, like, not a lot of substance behind it. I generally think of head voice as highish in pitch but also with power, eg. chorus of 'livin on a prayer' by bon jovi, or many things sung by chris cornell or freddie mercury... Am I correct or am I missing something?[/QUOTE]
hehe, well I wouldnt really call it a contradiction, just a rarity. When I first heard it I thought the same thing but after trying to, what I call, study it I think it is head. But If you go to his site he has a few samples and Its easier to hear that its true voice.

Hey Merk, what's new? :)

I got myself a vocal mic, an MXL 990. And a Behringer tube preamp for the phantom power, and the warm tube sound. I [i]love[/i] it! Now I just need to find a vocal teacher damnit :angry:

So I'm still having trouble moving the larynx around. I finished reading the Rock N Roll Singers Survival Guide book, it gave some advice on that, but I couldn't seem to stop it from moving. =( It did help with other tension though; now I realize that raising the eyebrows, tensing the forehead, jaw, etc... it's all bad! I, myself, had a habit of raising the eyebrows, as well as my chin, on higher notes.

So you think a vocal teacher could really help me with this problem? Or, should I just buy a few more books =P Like Jim Gillette's "Metal Power" or whatever, it seems like that might direct me toward the style I like... plus I know that guy has one hell of a range!

Yeah fair enough, I might go check that out.

Speaking of rarities, check this out:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4853432.stm[/url] and then click on the link where it says "Listen to the "last castrato", Alessandro Moreschi, recorded in 1902."

As the link suggests, it's the only known recording of a castrato. However, from many accounts this guy was by no means the best castrato going around, in fact many said he was just average or mediocre... but still, there is something about this recording that is just really haunting, even depressing.

and F**K that must have hurt!

rawr

[QUOTE=adz_18]Yeah fair enough, I might go check that out.

Speaking of rarities, check this out:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4853432.stm[/url] and then click on the link where it says "Listen to the "last castrato", Alessandro Moreschi, recorded in 1902."

As the link suggests, it's the only known recording of a castrato. However, from many accounts this guy was by no means the best castrato going around, in fact many said he was just average or mediocre... but still, there is something about this recording that is just really haunting, even depressing.

and F**K that must have hurt![/QUOTE]
Yea, when I first heard about the castrati I thought it was fake. Like it was just a joke or more of an "urban legend". Then I would see more and more and finally looked into it and thought..yes...ouch. That would suck, no slight pun intended. Talk about getting whored out by your parents!

I checked out that link. I kept thinking, gosh it doesnt sound all that great for opera....then my brain would say....its a 44 year old man...then I would say...holy shlt! I could imagine how he might have sounded at say, 24. And to think that he was just the "run of the mill" castrati.

[QUOTE=Peg Dizzler]Hey Merk, what's new? :)

I got myself a vocal mic, an MXL 990. And a Behringer tube preamp for the phantom power, and the warm tube sound. I [i]love[/i] it! Now I just need to find a vocal teacher damnit :angry:

So I'm still having trouble moving the larynx around. I finished reading the Rock N Roll Singers Survival Guide book, it gave some advice on that, but I couldn't seem to stop it from moving. =( It did help with other tension though; now I realize that raising the eyebrows, tensing the forehead, jaw, etc... it's all bad! I, myself, had a habit of raising the eyebrows, as well as my chin, on higher notes.

So you think a vocal teacher could really help me with this problem? Or, should I just buy a few more books =P Like Jim Gillette's "Metal Power" or whatever, it seems like that might direct me toward the style I like... plus I know that guy has one hell of a range![/QUOTE]Woa! Sounds like a decent setu up. You'll have to post some samples soon!
Same ol' same ol' here. I'm still looking for a freaking band! Everyone either wants to do hardcore or punk/pop. Sux.

I wouldnt worry about the larynx. I mean it will limit you a bit, but remember its gonna move, especially as you go up in pitch. And if youre in falsetto and trying to give it any resonance its gonna rise a little. I would say a vocal teacher probably wouldnt make it there chief concern and would be worried more about how you sound, and could probably tell if your larynx is affecting your vowels by how you sound in and around your natural range. But yes the tension thing is more of a thing to watch out for and work on.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]Woa! Sounds like a decent setu up. You'll have to post some samples soon!
Same ol' same ol' here. I'm still looking for a freaking band! Everyone either wants to do hardcore or punk/pop. Sux.

I wouldnt worry about the larynx. I mean it will limit you a bit, but remember its gonna move, especially as you go up in pitch. And if youre in falsetto and trying to give it any resonance its gonna rise a little. I would say a vocal teacher probably wouldnt make it there chief concern and would be worried more about how you sound, and could probably tell if your larynx is affecting your vowels by how you sound in and around your natural range. But yes the tension thing is more of a thing to watch out for and work on.[/QUOTE]
Cool! Thanks for the advice, mang.

Still lookin for a band eh? Hardcore and pop-punk? What else is new.. seems like "those kind" of bands are a dime a dozen across our country.

Well I haven't recorded any vox through my new mic, at least not any recording takes that I saved. :p
But I just got done recording a reeeally bad drum take. If you're interested. I'm actually very impressed by the sound quality!! The mic is just kind of pointing at the drumset over top...

Anyway, I just got this $60 drumkit 2 days ago, never played drums much before so yer I truly suck. The kit is the biggest piece of junk I've ever seen, cymbals are all busted, no hi-hat pedal, no bass pedal... so yes, I gotta kick drum, quite literally. Forgive me. :( haha
[url]http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=579904B921D5CAAA[/url]