[QUOTE=cobert]Im completely against lessons. Everybody I know that has ever taken lessons for an instrument sound the same when they play. Like, instead of using what they know and putting it into their music and being creative, they played what they were taught was right.[/QUOTE]

As opposed to peopel who haven't gotten lessons...who suck and can only do powerchords?

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]As opposed to peopel who haven't gotten lessons...who suck and can only do powerchords?[/QUOTE]

That's why you keep playing until you can do more than that. I primarily play bass, but i can still play more than power chords on guitar, even though ive never actually owned one myself. I think its better just to keep playing and learn to play for yourself.

[b][u]IN OTHER NEWS:[/u][/b]
American Footbal is such a gay band, that i secretly like them.

Well its just if you keep playing and keep playing to learn by yourself, you could be learning so much faster from someone that already knows so much more than you.

[QUOTE=Fish]i was self taught on guitar for just over 2 years, before i decided to take lessons, and man... I improved so much quicker with the lessons, it was incredible, i could hear it in my playing[/QUOTE]
I still suck at guitar. But I can have fun with it and that's all I care about, I don't need to be a technical beast to enjoy my music.
[QUOTE=DepthsOfDreams555]Ya, I mean it's going pretty well, I just feel like I could be doing much better if I got some lessons. That's good to hear, because my set is not very nice at all, I'm going to invest on some nice new heads.[/QUOTE]
Well the only important thing to worry about is technique. Don't set yourself into bad habits you'll have to fix later. But drums have a huge learning curve. You'll progress slow for a long time, and then all of a sudden you'll just get it, and it all clicks and your skill will improve in leaps and bounds. Sweet, learn to tune and you can get a good sound.
[QUOTE=cobert]Im completely against lessons. Everybody I know that has ever taken lessons for an instrument sound the same when they play. Like, instead of using what they know and putting it into their music and being creative, they played what they were taught was right.[/QUOTE]
Depends entirely on the teacher. Formal music instruction can do that though, yes.
[QUOTE=Fish]If you're really serious about it, go for a new set.[/QUOTE]
No.

Set is the very last thing to upgrade, ever.

[QUOTE=cobert]Im completely against lessons. Everybody I know that has ever taken lessons for an instrument sound the same when they play. Like, instead of using what they know and putting it into their music and being creative, they played what they were taught was right.[/QUOTE]

okay, in lessons you get taught theory, now their are some people who can only play what they have been taught, but it takes a real musician to take what they have learned, and create into something new and different. So the people who you hear that sound the same are just people who get taught stuff and just keep playing it over and over. Its up to the person to explore different styles of their own, and create new sounds and ideas. And all of that comes from lessons, and being taught the theory.


/Vince, when i said "serious" i meant "serious" ...

Dave: I'm self taught and I incorporate more musical styles and ideas in some of my music than many Music majors I know, who stick primarily to Jazz. In fact most formally educated musicians just end up being Jazz nerds with a high contempt for other styles of music.

Serious as in like $10000 serious? Because honetly the kid needs, in this order: heads, cymbals, hardware, shells. Always buy top line stuff and he'll be set regardless. I'm just saying a set is the last upgrade you ever make.

OH MY GAWD I STILL HATE EVERYTHING. EXCEPT AMERICAN FOOTBALL, ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO HATE A BAND THAT GAY.

[QUOTE=fichy fich fich]but it takes a real musician to take what they have learned, and create into something new and different.[/QUOTE]

troof.

[QUOTE=cobert]That's why you keep playing until you can do more than that. I primarily play bass, but i can still play more than power chords on guitar, even though ive never actually owned one myself. I think its better just to keep playing and learn to play for yourself.[/QUOTE]

Chords was just an example. Anyone can look up chord forms on the internet real easy.

Looking up how to improvise solos and keys and key changes and everything is so much harder to understand without someone explaining it to you, and without practice with material designed for learning it. How many self taught people do you know who can improvise a riff over a progression and have it sound decent?

Even with lessons, experience is necessary, though.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]Dave: I'm self taught and I incorporate more musical styles and ideas in some of my music than many Music majors I know, who stick primarily to Jazz. In fact most formally educated musicians just end up being Jazz nerds with a high contempt for other styles of music.

Serious as in like $10000 serious? Because honetly the kid needs, in this order: heads, cymbals, hardware, shells. Always buy top line stuff and he'll be set regardless. I'm just saying a set is the last upgrade you ever make.[/QUOTE]

He said his set wasnt very good, so i meant in serious as in a set that is quality, it doesnt have to be top of the line, but when you get into an instrument, you gotta make sure you're playing something decent other than the sets you buy out of the sears catalogue :-\ Like when i first started guitar i had one of the beginner sets that were a big huge bag of crap. And the frets were all messed up and body was weird and ****.. So im happy i bought myself i decent guitar to practice with, so i didnt get to used to playing with an amateur instrument that didnt sound good. My playing picked up when i moved onto something that was actually made for someone who wants to learn and play guitar

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]Dave: I'm self taught and I incorporate more musical styles and ideas in some of my music than many Music majors I know, who stick primarily to Jazz. In fact most formally educated musicians just end up being Jazz nerds with a high contempt for other styles of music.[/QUOTE]

Depends on what instrument.

Educated drummers only know jazz. If you're a drummer, don't get lessons, they do not improve how you play.

Just listen to a lot of different styles of music and listen to how the drummers play.

Hey everyone. How's it going?

I just got back from seeing At All Cost. :D

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]Chords was just an example. Anyone can look up chord forms on the internet real easy.

Looking up how to improvise solos and keys and key changes and everything is so much harder to understand without someone explaining it to you, and without practice with material designed for learning it. How many self taught people do you know who can improvise a riff over a progression and have it sound decent?

Even with lessons, experience is necessary, though.[/QUOTE]

You see, now, if a person was self taught, they wouldnt have to know that something was a key change to understand that it would sound good. And i dont know anyone that good at improvising, self taught or not, because everybody is stupid and i hate everything.

[QUOTE=Fish]He said his set wasnt very good, so i meant in serious as in a set that is quality, it doesnt have to be top of the line, but when you get into an instrument, you gotta make sure you're playing something decent other than the sets you buy out of the sears catalogue :-\ Like when i first started guitar i had one of the beginner sets that were a big huge bag of crap. And the frets were all messed up and body was weird and ****.. So im happy i bought myself i decent guitar to practice with, so i didnt get to used to playing with an amateur instrument that didnt sound good. My playing picked up when i moved onto something that was actually made for someone who wants to learn and play guitar[/QUOTE]
Eh, drums are different. I use a very cheap $1-200 set in my band but with nice heads it sounds fine. Not as good as my $500 shells and not as good as $3000+ shells, obviously, but I can get a nice tone out of them.

Basically I'm saying guitars and drums are totally different and you don't need nice shells to get a good sound.
[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]Depends on what instrument.

Educated drummers only know jazz. If you're a drummer, don't get lessons, they do not improve how you play.

Just listen to a lot of different styles of music and listen to how the drummers play.[/QUOTE]
Not really :-\ All the guitarist majors here I know are either Classical or Jazz, Jazz piano, Jazz bass (on an upright, rarely do you find an electric bass teacher in a proper music school), etc...

Eh, I'd like drum lessons at some point in life if I could use them simply to learn techniques I have trouble with on my own. I'd have to control the direction of my education.

*listen to a lot of percussion

[QUOTE=cobert] And i dont know anyone that good at improvising, self taught or not, because everybody is stupid and i hate everything.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://myspace.com/freetobreathe[/url]

The opening solo, the lead during the verse, and the solo at 2:30 or so are all improvised.

That was after I had lessons for a half a year, I think. Or a year amd a half. Soemthing like that.

Vince: well i know that you dont need the top of the line of everything, im just saying that in most cases (not all cases) as you start paying a little more for your instrument, you get a bit better quality.

[QUOTE=Mute Print]Hey everyone. How's it going?

I just got back from seeing At All Cost. :D[/QUOTE]
Sup Brian.

I'm writing band blurbs and everyone here is arguing about formal education. Generally the ones with lessons arguing for them and the ones without arguing against.

I'm also listening to Vitruvian :D

[QUOTE=Fish]Vince: well i know that you dont need the top of the line of everything, im just saying that in most cases (not all cases) as you start paying a little more for your instrument, you get a bit better quality.[/QUOTE]
But the thing with drums is price. He could get a decent set after scrounging up a few hundred dollars, but to what end? It'll still need upgrading eventually. He might as well just save up a few thousand then just buy some pro equipment that'll last him forever.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]Sup Brian.

I'm writing band blurbs and everyone here is arguing about formal education. Generally the ones with lessons arguing for them and the ones without arguing against.

I'm also listening to Vitruvian :D[/QUOTE]
Sounds fun.

Vitruvian is a cool band. I haven't gotten around to listening to their full-length yet.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]But the thing with drums is price. He could get a decent set after scrounging up a few hundred dollars, but to what end? It'll still need upgrading eventually. He might as well just save up a few thousand then just buy some pro equipment that'll last him forever.[/QUOTE]

THERE ARE JUST SO MANY OPTIONS I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :p

just keep expressing yourself through your music

[QUOTE=Mute Print]Sounds fun.

Vitruvian is a cool band. I haven't gotten around to listening to their full-length yet.[/QUOTE]
Totally. Man I'm so beat, can't wait for break!

I'm listening to it now, good times for sure :)

Alright I'm going to go up in my room and listen to some tunes, cause I can't stand to what my dad is listening to right next to me. Then I'm going to go to my girlfriend's house for a while, then crash. Got school tomorrow...bummer, not for too much longer though. Peace guys.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]
Not really :-\ All the guitarist majors here I know are either Classical or Jazz, Jazz piano, Jazz bass (on an upright, rarely do you find an electric bass teacher in a proper music school), etc...

Eh, I'd like drum lessons at some point in life if I could use them simply to learn techniques I have trouble with on my own. I'd have to control the direction of my education.[/QUOTE]

Well, the drummers I know that have taken lessons are absolutely awefull, and the two drummers I know that have taken lessons are versatile and skillful.

I don't know any music majors, so I can't comment. I don't know anyone who likes Jazz either.

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace][url]http://myspace.com/freetobreathe[/url]

The opening solo, the lead during the verse, and the solo at 2:30 or so are all improvised.

That was after I had lessons for a half a year, I think. Or a year amd a half. Soemthing like that.[/QUOTE]

Nice.

But overall, the main point of my side was that lessons arent necessary to know what sounds radd. Like, If i didnt know the color green was called 'green', it would still be my favorite color, regardless of me not knowing the technical term for it.

I'ma still here.

Watching arguments in here is fun.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]Sup Brian.

I'm writing band blurbs and everyone here is arguing about formal education. Generally the ones with lessons arguing for them and the ones without arguing against.
[/QUOTE]

im not arguing for lessons, im just against the fact that everyone who takes lessons sounds the same. cause they dont :confused: .... :-\

I just got in from driving. My mom let me drive on the road. And I'm starting to feel a lot more comfortable with the pedals.

[QUOTE=DepthsOfDreams555]THERE ARE JUST SO MANY OPTIONS I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :p[/QUOTE]
First: Buy some Remo or Aquarian drum heads, your preference, try them out at the shop if you can. Get them for all your drums ASAP, batters at the least and maybe resos too if you can spring for it.
Second: Buy some nice cymbals. It comes down to your ear and what you like but I recommend Wuhan chinas and splashes, Sabian A/AA/Vault/Paragon/HH/HHX series cymbals, Zildjian A/A custom/K/K custom series cymbals. It'll also depend on what kind of music you want to play as far as what you're looking for in a cymbal, research. (or ask me :p)
Third: Buy nice hardware. DW 5000/9000 and Tama Iron Cobra/Roadpro get Vince's stamp of approval. I've not tried several other reputable brands though.
Fourth: Buy a nice set, you can go custom shop (do research on the company!) or get a nice DW/Sonor/Mapex/Tama/Yamaha. There are other good ones too but those are the biggies. This will be a big expense, at least $1000 for anything decent.

[QUOTE=cobert]Nice.

But overall, the main point of my side was that lessons arent necessary to know what sounds radd. Like, If i didnt know the color green was called 'green', it would still be my favorite color, regardless of me not knowing the technical term for it.[/QUOTE]

It's a pretty ****ty solo, really :( If I was still in the band I would do it differently.

You're right, you don't need lessons to know what sounds good. But to figure how to do something that sounds good, lessons help immensly.

Another analogy: I don't need to be a painter to know that I like a painting. If I wanted to paint something similar, I would need to have painting lessons to learn how to properly use the brush and the paint to mix the proper colors and do the right strokes need to make the painting. I could then use the techniques that I learned, and combine them with my own ideas, and other brushstrokes that I made up on my own, to create a better painting than the original.

Or something. That was like, two sentences. Christ.

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]Well, the drummers I know that have taken lessons are absolutely awefull, and the two drummers I know that have taken lessons are versatile and skillful.

I don't know any music majors, so I can't comment. I don't know anyone who likes Jazz either.[/QUOTE]
Haha, oic. I'd like to think I'm versatile and skillful :-\

I know many :-\ My roommie next year loves Jazz, but he also likes Pop-Punk, he's kind like Joel, not too snobby.
[QUOTE=Fish]im not arguing for lessons, im just against the fact that everyone who takes lessons sounds the same. cause they dont :confused: .... :-\[/QUOTE]
Depends on the student and teacher.

Formal education makes many clones.

I really have to stop posting in here, saying, "Hello!" then not posting again for like 2 hours. :(

I miss you guys a lot.

-Gav

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]It's a pretty ****ty solo, really :( If I was still in the band I would do it differently.

You're right, you don't need lessons to know what sounds good. But to figure how to do something that sounds good, lessons help immensly.

Another analogy: I don't need to be a painter to know that I like a painting. If I wanted to paint something similar, I would need to have painting lessons to learn how to properly use the brush and the paint to mix the proper colors and do the right strokes need to make the painting. I could then use the techniques that I learned, and combine them with my own ideas, and other brushstrokes that I made up on my own, to create a better painting than the original.

Or something. That was like, two sentences. Christ.[/QUOTE]

I see I see.

Point taken. They're not really [i]needed[/i], but they can help in some instances.

/ends argumentdiscussionthingy.

[QUOTE=Permanent Solution]
I'm writing band blurbs and everyone here is arguing about formal education. Generally the ones with lessons arguing for them and the ones without arguing against.
[/QUOTE]

I know what being self-taught is like. I tried teaching myself for a half a year before I got lessons. I could do a powerchord, and I think I could play Time Of Your Life.

I know what having lessons is like. I've been taking them for a year or two (I honestly don't remember which).

People who haven't taken lessons don't know that's it's like to have lessons. Thus, my opinion is better and more valid.

[QUOTE=I0Play0Bass]I really have to stop posting in here, saying, "Hello!" then not posting again for like 2 hours. :(

I miss you guys a lot.

-Gav[/QUOTE]

And we miss you Gav.

[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]I know what being self-taught is like. I tried teaching myself for a half a year before I got lessons. I could do a powerchord, and I think I could play Time Of Your Life.

I know what having lessons is like. I've been taking them for a year or two (I honestly don't remember which).

People who haven't taken lessons don't know that's it's like to have lessons. Thus, my opinion is better and more valid.[/QUOTE]

But we've seen what lessons can do to people by making a lot of them sound alike. It's like a really, really bad drug addiction....everyone but the addict themself notices that something is horribly wrong.

[b][u]FACT:[/u][/b]
Analogies are mighty fun to make.

I've changed my mind.

Disc 1 of Stadium Arcadium owns.

Disc 2 is kinda meh.

[QUOTE=I0Play0Bass]I really have to stop posting in here, saying, "Hello!" then not posting again for like 2 hours. :(

I miss you guys a lot.

-Gav[/QUOTE]
Yeah you do, lamer. I always answer you and never get a response :mad:
[QUOTE=BridgeToSolace]I know what being self-taught is like. I tried teaching myself for a half a year before I got lessons. I could do a powerchord, and I think I could play Time Of Your Life.

I know what having lessons is like. I've been taking them for a year or two (I honestly don't remember which).

People who haven't taken lessons don't know that's it's like to have lessons. Thus, my opinion is better and more valid.[/QUOTE]
Oh silly Jon.

I would never claim lessons have no benefits, technique will definitely improve from lessons. But I don't think lessons improve songwriting abilities or musical sense in the slightest. Nor does theory.

Hahaha, thanks, guys. <3

But yeah...today at work, I got a $10 dollar tip from one person alone...ONE CUSTOMER! I made a total of $17 in tips. Usually when it's very very busy, I make about $5. I'm the man.

I work at a hardware store, so customers don't usually tip when I load stuff into their cars and stuff but they do sometimes. I loaded 9 8x8 vinyl fences, 10 posts, 10 brackets, and 10 caps and they loved it and tipped me. It was great. Good day. :cool:

-Gav

I loaded furniture into a 17' uhaul all of yesterday. I'm sore now :(

And broke.

Gav you suck :(

The chinese place we call for delivery makes us tip a lot because everyone else around here doesnt tip and its a kinda far drive from there.

True story.