I feel nice

[QUOTE=irishslappop]yeah i hear ya. and yes i think its a perfectly good way to think about it. this may sound stupid but no one evr brings this up.


ok. im a physical kind of guy. im one of those pricks that doesn't beleive it unless he sees it. if god created the entire, ever expanding universe and all the things me gav and lowsound were talking about earier, then i mean...(back to physical sence of being) where is this fellow. oh this sounds stupid. but i mean, what does he look like, where did he get these powers of creation?because anyone who created the universe hasssss to have some type of physical being. or it just wouldn't work. the amount of energy on a physical bassis to create the universe is so imence that it is mind bogling. im just wondering how a religious person would explain something like the creation of the universe. that sounded really stupid sorry.[/QUOTE]
No that's a very good point.

And my answer to that is................ faith.
It's all about accepting something without any phsyical proof. But you can feel the presense of God in certain times. It's very hard to describe but I understand what your saying.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]I read an interesting thing in the Religion/Politics thread in the Pit once.

A guy used a very good analogy:

Say you're on a gameshow. Behind curtain A there is a 50/50 chance of there being a brand new car. Behind curtain B there is absolutly nothing. Which is the logical choice? Most people would say curtain A.

Alright pretend curtain A is a religion and the car is a life in heaven. Pretend curtain B is aetheism. If you pick curtain A you have a chance at heaven, and if you pick curtain B you're done when you're dead. Now if there is no car (heaven) then it's you're in the same place you would be if you picked curtain B.

Do you guys understand?[/QUOTE]That's acually pretty good, I'm totally quoting it for another forum.

[QUOTE=e p]I feel nice[/QUOTE]


My sugar and spice.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]I read an interesting thing in the Religion/Politics thread in the Pit once.

A guy used a very good analogy:

Say you're on a gameshow. Behind curtain A there is a 50/50 chance of there being a brand new car. Behind curtain B there is absolutly nothing. Which is the logical choice? Most people would say curtain A.

Alright pretend curtain A is a religion and the car is a life in heaven. Pretend curtain B is aetheism. If you pick curtain A you have a chance at heaven, and if you pick curtain B you're done when you're dead. Now if there is no car (heaven) then it's you're in the same place you would be if you picked curtain B.

Do you guys understand?[/QUOTE]

This is the WORST analogy ever. Thats just saying you should believe in God just so you have all your bases covered. THAT is the UTMOST display of hypocrisy that irish was talking about. Belief in god should come from faith, and from this faith should come from conviction. If Irish wants to not believe in God, well that is the leap of faith he is making. He is living out his own life as he sees fit. He is being his own person...he is truly living. If he (and im only using him as an example because i know he wont take any of this the wrong way) were to say he believed in god and go to church and all that hoo-ha simply because he feared the "50/50 chance" that he might go to hell, well then he is being a slave to a higher being which he doesnt even think exists.

Furthermore, what if he picked the wrong religion? What if the "correct" religion were in fact some bizarre cult where you get eternal salvation if you either follow their cult or nothing at all. If he sided with a religion simply to cover his ***, then he would be ****ed once again.

*enters catholic theology mode* God loves us, and thats why he gave us freedom: freedom to love him back (through religion or just through love of one another), or freedom to reject him. If somebody were to follow religion "just in case", then he would be throwing away God's freedom because he becomes enslaved to this idea which he doesnt even embrace.

I dont mean to pick on you, CBR, because i know this kind of thing makes sense to you and me, since we are actually catholic. But when you look at it from an outside perspective, the analogy is really screwy.

I remember that analogy, I think it's weak. For it to "work" on you, you already need to believe in heaven, because to a true atheist, there is no heaven and even if you pick Door A, you are done when you're dead anyway.

[QUOTE=gaslight]I remember that analogy, I think it's weak. For it to "work" on you, you already need to believe in heaven, because to a true atheist, there is no heaven and even if you pick Door A, you are done when you're dead anyway.[/QUOTE]
Well look at it from an Agnostic viewpoint.

Just look at it as though it really were a gameshow. (IMAGINING IS FUN!)

[QUOTE=YO_bass]This is the WORST analogy ever. Thats just saying you should believe in God just so you have all your bases covered. THAT is the UTMOST display of hypocrisy that irish was talking about. Belief in god should come from faith, and from this faith should come from conviction. If Irish wants to not believe in God, well that is the leap of faith he is making. He is living out his own life as he sees fit. He is being his own person...he is truly living. If he (and im only using him as an example because i know he wont take any of this the wrong way) were to say he believed in god and go to church and all that hoo-ha simply because he feared the "50/50 chance" that he might go to hell, well then he is being a slave to a higher being which he doesnt even think exists.

Furthermore, what if he picked the wrong religion? What if the "correct" religion were in fact some bizarre cult where you get eternal salvation if you either follow their cult or nothing at all. If he sided with a religion simply to cover his ***, then he would be ****ed once again.

*enters catholic theology mode* God loves us, and thats why he gave us freedom: freedom to love him back (through religion or just through love of one another), or freedom to reject him. If somebody were to follow religion "just in case", then he would be throwing away God's freedom because he becomes enslaved to this idea which he doesnt even embrace.

I dont mean to pick on you, CBR, because i know this kind of thing makes sense to you and me, since we are actually catholic. But when you look at it from an outside perspective, the analogy is really screwy.[/QUOTE]
Ya I understand the problem with it.

PLEASE DONT GET MAD AT ME ITS NOT MY ANALOGY!!!!

I just thought to someone who was like.......... a real practical person, it might make sense. Sorry to sound hypocritical.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]Ya I understand the problem with it.

PLEASE DONT GET MAD AT ME ITS NOT MY ANALOGY!!!!

I just thought to someone who was like.......... a real practical person, it might make sense. Sorry to sound hypocritical.[/QUOTE]

I meant to clarify in the last paragraph that i wasnt mad at you, since it was not you who penned the analogy. I just dont like seeing it being used becuase it is (in my opinion) severly flawed. Im not mad at anybody...nothin but love here... :smoke:

Ok I'd love to sit here and listen to all of your opinions but I have loads of homework and my sister wants to go online (she's one of the most devout Catholics I know)

So I love you bass forum and I respect you all! :thumb:

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]PLEASE DONT GET MAD AT ME ITS NOT MY ANALOGY!!!![/QUOTE]

Hey man I know that isn't directed at me but either way I think I'd just like to make sure everyone chills out when discussing this stuff.

Discussions/"arguments" about things can usually come across as pretty confrontational, because that's what they are really, a confrontation of ideas, but that's all it is. I don't think any of us take it personally, and if we do, we shouldn't :). Noone should get angry at someone for having different ideas, especially in an discussion/"argument" situation because they're the best type of discussion you can have if you handle it right.

You will learn more from talking to someone you don't agree with then you'll ever learn talking to someone you do agree with.

So yeah, if we're going to all discuss this religion stuff, let's all remember that even though we disagree, our disagreement is with a person's ideas, not them as a human being.

[QUOTE=cliffburtonrules]No that's a very good point.

And my answer to that is................ faith.
It's all about accepting something without any phsyical proof. But you can feel the presense of God in certain times. It's very hard to describe but I understand what your saying.[/QUOTE]
yeah see i think i just dont have that faith thing. more power to ya if ya can do it.
but im sure glad that after battleing the drug civil with a bunch of crazies, im glad to have a civilized dicussion with someone who is open minded and knows what they are talking about. :thumb:

I was raised Catholic, and went to a catholic school for most of my elementary and middle school. I became athiest for a while, because it was just basic rebellion.

I then became agnostic, as I became slightly less pessimistic. Yeah, I thought, there could be a god, but I dont have any proof, and the bible doesnt cut it.

Recently, however, I noticed being an athiest and an agnostic is quite boring, so...
I decided to worship the one thing that gives us more than god ever has, the sun.
It basically governs our lives. It gives us warmth, food, light, basically we have almost everything we know because of it. I dont really do much in my religion, just, well, kinda worship the sun, because worshipping something like that makes life oh so much more interesting.

[QUOTE=coddingtown]I was raised Catholic, and went to a catholic school for most of my elementary and middle school. I became athiest for a while, because it was just basic rebellion.

I then became agnostic, as I became slightly less pessimistic. Yeah, I thought, there could be a god, but I dont have any proof, and the bible doesnt cut it.

Recently, however, I noticed being an athiest and an agnostic is quite boring, so...
I decided to worship the one thing that gives us more than god ever has, the sun.
It basically governs our lives. It gives us warmth, food, light, basically we have almost everything we know because of it. I dont really do much in my religion, just, well, kinda worship the sun, because worshipping something like that makes life oh so much more interesting.[/QUOTE]

I cant tell if you're kidding....

but i'll roll with it anyway.

While it is true that the sun gives us a buttload of cool stuff, what about it exactly do you worship? I mean, do you believe it has a spirit that needs to be pleased all the time, or hte sun will get hotter, and will melt the ice caps and we'll die? I mean, the original purpose of worship (this was in the archaic time not the primitive time....just think greeks and romans) was to please the spirits, because they believed that they could not coerce them with magic (like primitive cultures believed). If it is actually the physical sun that you worship (as opposed to its spirit) then the way you worship it probably has no purpose. Because you cant exactly please a physical object. I guess you could "coerce" it with "magic" like the primitive cultures used to do by wearing suntan lotion, setting up solar panels to trap the energy, or just providing things with shade. I guess these have some interaction with the sun, but in the traditional sense of the word, worshipping the sun is useless

....as was this post.

[QUOTE=coddingtown]I was raised Catholic, and went to a catholic school for most of my elementary and middle school. I became athiest for a while, because it was just basic rebellion.

I then became agnostic, as I became slightly less pessimistic. Yeah, I thought, there could be a god, but I dont have any proof, and the bible doesnt cut it.

Recently, however, I noticed being an athiest and an agnostic is quite boring, so...
I decided to worship the one thing that gives us more than god ever has, the sun.
It basically governs our lives. It gives us warmth, food, light, basically we have almost everything we know because of it. I dont really do much in my religion, just, well, kinda worship the sun, because worshipping something like that makes life oh so much more interesting.[/QUOTE]
are you serious because if you are your are really cool.

[QUOTE=e p]My sugar and spice.[/QUOTE]


Oh, I feel good.

[QUOTE=irishslappop]are you serious because if you are your are really cool.[/QUOTE]
Well then :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: , cause Im not joking. It makes mucho sense if you think about it.

No offence to anyone but if you think about it, worshipping the sun makes a lot more sense than worshipping what most religions do because at least in a purely physical sense, the sun is [i]there[/i] and it is a neccessary part of life.

A lot of tribal religions worship the sun, and people don't take them seriously, but they should. The sun does a lot more for the world than a lot of other things that are worshipped.

[QUOTE=e p]Oh, I feel good.[/QUOTE]


I knew that I would, now.

[QUOTE=gaslight]No offence to anyone but if you think about it, worshipping the sun makes a lot more sense than worshipping what most religions do because at least in a purely physical sense, the sun is [i]there[/i] and it is a neccessary part of life.

A lot of tribal religions worship the sun, and people don't take them seriously, but they should. The sun does a lot more for the world than a lot of other things that are worshipped.[/QUOTE]

Sure, the sun is great, but so is water, so is oxygen, etc. People worship things generally to please the spirit of those things, or as modern Western Religion shows, to raise the sanctity of the person doing the worshipping (which is kinda backward but whatever). Worshipping the sun i guess COULD make you more holy, but how would worshipping the sun please the spirit of the sun, which is what hte ancient tribes believe. The worshipping you're referring to (i think) refers to actually worshipping the physical sun, which is useless.

[QUOTE=gaslight]No offence to anyone but if you think about it, worshipping the sun makes a lot more sense than worshipping what most religions do because at least in a purely physical sense, the sun is [i]there[/i] and it is a neccessary part of life.

A lot of tribal religions worship the sun, and people don't take them seriously, but they should. The sun does a lot more for the world than a lot of other things that are worshipped.[/QUOTE]
yep. Wanna join?

I'd feel good if I had a nice big chicken burger right now.

[QUOTE=coddingtown]Well then :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: , cause Im not joking. It makes mucho sense if you think about it.[/QUOTE]
the sun=teh rox0r
i think im going to look into worshiping the sun....or maybe my bass. my bass is cool. i should worship it. :)

[QUOTE=YO_bass]Sure, the sun is great, but so is water, so is oxygen, etc. People worship things generally to please the spirit of those things, or as modern Western Religion shows, to raise the sanctity of the person doing the worshipping (which is kinda backward but whatever). Worshipping the sun i guess COULD make you more holy, but how would worshipping the sun please the spirit of the sun, which is what hte ancient tribes believe. The worshipping you're referring to (i think) refers to actually worshipping the physical sun, which is useless.[/QUOTE]
First of all, thanks a lot, now you pissed it off and its gonna blow up and we are al going to get burned a little.

Second, how is it pointless?? I would never put down [I]your[/I] religion like that, but now that you mention it, if worshipping the sun is pointless, worshipping a thing some guy made up is just as pointless.

I worship the sun because I appreciate what it does for me. Yes, the actual physical sun.

[QUOTE=YO_bass]Sure, the sun is great, but so is water, so is oxygen, etc. People worship things generally to please the spirit of those things, or as modern Western Religion shows, to raise the sanctity of the person doing the worshipping (which is kinda backward but whatever). Worshipping the sun i guess COULD make you more holy, but how would worshipping the sun please the spirit of the sun, which is what hte ancient tribes believe. The worshipping you're referring to (i think) refers to actually worshipping the physical sun, which is useless.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I don't mean worshipping it in regard to being holy or anything. To me there's no such thing as holy. I don't mean worshipping it as if it's a sentient being or anything, it's the sun, it's a ball of burning gas, there's no point to treating it like a deity and asking it for blessings or whatever. You may as well ask a tree to do a kickflip.

What I mean is, if you're going to give something credit, it makes more sense to give credit to the sun than to some fictional deity, because at least the sun is a physical thing. You could get rid of all the religions on earth, the planet and human beings would still be here. But if you got rid of the sun, the earth would be a cold lifeless rock.

I'm not saying we should all go do sun dances or some crazy crap to please Sunny The Sun Lord, all I'm saying is the sun, though it may be just a ball of burning gas, is far more deserving of our appreciation then anything our imaginations can cough up.

Well said gaslight, although sun dancing is a blast, but I guess its your loss :p

[QUOTE=e p]I knew that I would, now.[/QUOTE]


So nice.

So nice.

*Horn break*

Take it fellas.

[QUOTE=e p]So nice.

So nice.

*Horn break*

Take it fellas.[/QUOTE]
Ive been paying attention e p, dont worry

I agree with both of you that the sun is pretty darn awesome. But showing appreciation and worshipping are two very different things. When people worship a god of a religion, they dont just go "props dude, you did a good job," they usually offer up some sort of sacrifice as to not piss off the spirit.

Anwyay, im exhausted. Im going to bed. I'll talk to you all some other time.