[QUOTE=Elizabeth]Okay, I already posted this problem to another forum, but the people there seem to be pretty quiet so I searched for a better music-forum and found this. :) (I love it already :p) *clears throat*


I have sang since I can only remember and it has always been my favourite doing/hobby/or whatever and I guess I used to be good at it. I could sing pretty high notes and stuff. I usually sang Christina Aguilera's, Celine Dion's or Britney Spears's songs. But then about 2 years ago a baby was born in our family and of course my mom had to stayn at home. I am very shy and afraid that someone will hear me singing and I've been "caught" singing a few times when I was little and I got so embarresed. <x) So, because I couldn't be home alone that much anymore, I couldn't sing so often. Then in the beginning of this year my mom went back to work and I could be home alone more often again. (Though not as much as I used to) I started to sing again [B]properly[/B] and GOD I SUCK! I mean, I can't hit the high notes anymore and I feel so sad. :( First I thought that I was just rusty and with some training I will get better again, but no change yet (well, maybe a small change). Will my voice get better anymore or will it just take so much time to get better? Or could it be because my voice has changed or something? (I'm now 15-years-old)

Any help/answers/or anything is very welcome and I would appreciate it very much if someone could replay to my post! :)
(Sorry if this has been posted earlier, I'm too lazy/busy to go through this whole thread.. <; ) )[/QUOTE]
age is going to change your voice regardless, especially for young people and their range. If youre just now 15 expect it to change again possibly. Keep practicing and I'm sure you'll gain most back. The good thing is that the voice usually gets stronger as you age...to a certain point.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]age is going to change your voice regardless, especially for young people and their range. If youre just now 15 expect it to change again possibly. Keep practicing and I'm sure you'll gain most back. The good thing is that the voice usually gets stronger as you age...to a certain point.[/QUOTE]
Okay, thanks for your replay. :)

I've found that to be contradictory. Your voice mechanism will not get stronger if you abuse it through bad speaking and singing habits for years and years. Puberty will bring on thicker vocal folds (MOST of the time) for boys and girls, which will mean deeper voices. The thing is though, that you'll meet very few people who are not stigmatized by society into speaking lower (in the case of most men) or higher (in the case of most women). That alone will screw you up pretty bad. It's perfectly fine to sing notes, to conciously produce pitch, just not for the time a person will usually talk every day. All in all, age will only help you in one area aside from being able to achieve a lower range; the amount of time you have to practice. It's the same reason you don't see many 10 year old body builders, nor do you see many amazing singers at a young age (though there are a few exceptions, people mastering their voice/instrument by the age of 16-17 and such.).

Oh, and from what I know, there is no real limit on ANY human being with a healthy set of vocal folds' ability to hit notes unless you're talking about notes below a C2 or so. If you put the time and dedication into it and do it properly, your range will come back eventually. You said you were singing properly, though...That tends to have an effect on it. Singing is driven partially by emotion and when you are just 'singing' and not paying attention to it, you can sometimes go a wee bit higher. I recommend that you PRACTICE properly, but when you perform, let yourself go just a bit. Or better yet, a few teachers I know of integrate phrases and words into practice, have their students practice with the same passion that they'd have when performing, which generally makes the actual performance much easier.

I thought I'd add an example of what I described: Do you sing "I love you" the same as you'd speak about something bored? Do you sing "Hey!" as though you're trying to get someone's attention, or is it just 'coming out'? When practicing, try using phrases you can connect to. If you're REALLY mad one day, run "I hate you I wish that you'd die" through a major scale. FEEL angry, let it carry through, but don't scream it or yell it. Just try and relate singing with emotion just as much as you would with speech.

Another good example, that would be particularly useful for screaming, would be pain; when someone drops something on your toe or your slam your finger in the car door, do you utter an "Ouch!" as though you're Ben Stein and you didn't feel a thing, or do you yelp it out? Scream "Ouch!" to a scalar exercise and take a deep breath before each utterance.

Exercises like this will, in many cases, make you sound much more connected to what you're singing. Use any emotion and try and connect it with words. Or, easiest of all, pick a song you really, really feel, and sing with as much balls as the person who originally sang it did. That's oftentimes the biggest difference between a professional singer and an amateur; passion. You've gotta believe in what you're saying when you sing just as much as you would when you speak.

[QUOTE=Jomey Banurm]I've found that to be contradictory. Your voice mechanism will not get stronger if you abuse it through bad speaking and singing habits for years and years. Puberty will bring on thicker vocal folds (MOST of the time) for boys and girls, which will mean deeper voices. The thing is though, that you'll meet very few people who are not stigmatized by society into speaking lower (in the case of most men) or higher (in the case of most women). That alone will screw you up pretty bad. It's perfectly fine to sing notes, to conciously produce pitch, just not for the time a person will usually talk every day. All in all, age will only help you in one area aside from being able to achieve a lower range; the amount of time you have to practice. It's the same reason you don't see many 10 year old body builders, nor do you see many amazing singers at a young age (though there are a few exceptions, people mastering their voice/instrument by the age of 16-17 and such.).[/QUOTE]
Well of course if you add in abuse and bad habits over years. Thats not what I said. I was referring to someong being 15 years old. Youre not at your strongest anything at 15, except maybe facial oil secretion!

I'm very curious as to how you would describe vocal mechanism when you say there is no "real" limit to note production...especially full voice or even falsetto with resonance. If you dont have rooom to pull anymore, youre not going to produce a higher pitch.

The way I've been taught, the vocal cords stretch horizontally parallel to eachother until a certain point, as far as they should really be stretched, while the person is still in their chest voice. After this, they begin to vibrate only at about 3/4 of their length, then about 1/4 and then about 1/10, the pitch getting higher and higher as they switch how much is vibrating. So they go from vibrating the full length (which is 'round 3/4 of an inch for most men) to vibrating about the size of a needle. This means, generally, that any person, male or female, should be able to hit whistle notes all the way up to the 7th octave unless they have some abnormality that will prevent proper adduction and stretching of the vocal cords.

Now, whether this is in full voice or not is a matter of terminology. Do you classify full voice by resonant qualities or by what's physically going on? The latter would only attribute a full voice to 'belting', ie, stretching the cords farther than they should and not allowing them to zip up, which is oftentimes a bad, bad thing. But if you go by resonance...You can, though it takes years of serious work, take a light head voice up to make it sound as though it's being belted, and you can even make whistle notes come out with the same connection and bottom-end that you would hear in chest. Falsetto is another term that applies to different things when it comes to different people, but what I consider falsetto is a completely false use of the voice mechanism; ie, almost no pressure on the vocal cords, only getting them close enough so that passing air vibrates the folds. So it has a breathy, hissy, light, quiet, small sound. If you bring the cords together tighter and start adding in resonance from other places, you're going to be mixing and then eventually producing a full-voice tone.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]age is going to change your voice regardless, especially for young people and their range. If youre just now 15 expect it to change again possibly. Keep practicing and I'm sure you'll gain most back. The good thing is that the voice usually gets stronger as you age...to a certain point.[/QUOTE]
And hey btw, I forgot to mension one pretty important thing: during the sining-break I smoked for about 1,5 years. :S Could that be also why my voice is badder now..? I haven't smoked now for over 1,5 months except sometimes when I have been drinking, but not much.

Smoking and drinking are really, really bad for you. Your vocal cords (at least the parts that come together and buzz) are a thin mucus membrane. You're basically curing your vocal cords, removing moisture from them whenever you inhale cigarette or marijuana smoke. If the smoke is hot, that is even worse. Alcohol on the other hand will not usually make direct contact with your vocal cords, but will dehydrate your body. You piss a lot when you drink because your body has to filter more garbage out. So all that moisture is lost, and the first place you'll notice it is in the throat (and if you become very aware of it, you can actually feel your vocal cords being 'scratchy' when they connect as you swallow or speak/stop speaking).

One and a half years of smoking is probably not too bad. You'll likely be able to salvage yourself without too much effort. Just, if you want to sing, don't smoke heavily, or at all. You'll hear people talk about how they smoke because they're going to die anyway, but singing is one of those things that is going to suffer because of it; you're taking years off your ability to sing the longer you smoke, and the more you do it now, the longer it will take you to master your voice.

Actually I stopped smoking cuase I noticed my voice was getting bad.. Thanks you Jomey Banurm for your reply. :)

No problemo Elizabeth. I hope things go well for you. You're lucky you're stopping at 15. Good going!

[QUOTE=Jomey Banurm]The way I've been taught, the vocal cords stretch horizontally parallel to eachother until a certain point, as far as they should really be stretched, while the person is still in their chest voice. After this, they begin to vibrate only at about 3/4 of their length, then about 1/4 and then about 1/10, the pitch getting higher and higher as they switch how much is vibrating. So they go from vibrating the full length (which is 'round 3/4 of an inch for most men) to vibrating about the size of a needle. This means, generally, that any person, male or female, should be able to hit whistle notes all the way up to the 7th octave unless they have some abnormality that will prevent proper adduction and stretching of the vocal cords.

Now, whether this is in full voice or not is a matter of terminology. Do you classify full voice by resonant qualities or by what's physically going on? The latter would only attribute a full voice to 'belting', ie, stretching the cords farther than they should and not allowing them to zip up, which is oftentimes a bad, bad thing. But if you go by resonance...You can, though it takes years of serious work, take a light head voice up to make it sound as though it's being belted, and you can even make whistle notes come out with the same connection and bottom-end that you would hear in chest. Falsetto is another term that applies to different things when it comes to different people, but what I consider falsetto is a completely false use of the voice mechanism; ie, almost no pressure on the vocal cords, only getting them close enough so that passing air vibrates the folds. So it has a breathy, hissy, light, quiet, small sound. If you bring the cords together tighter and start adding in resonance from other places, you're going to be mixing and then eventually producing a full-voice tone.[/QUOTE]Oh ok then. I usually consider physical attributes when referring to full voice. Especially around here because it seems so many people are scared of the term falsetto, though I tell them that a good falsetto with resonance will sound as good as head. I seldom hear any whistle notes that have any degree of considerable resonance. Though I'm sure its possible.
I wasnt considering whistle register because its usually a hit or miss thing especially for learning students. But yea, theoretically a bass could get high whistle notes. I dont think whistle is the best for longevity or fold health but it is a nice thing to acquire use of.

[QUOTE=Elizabeth]And hey btw, I forgot to mension one pretty important thing: during the sining-break I smoked for about 1,5 years. :S Could that be also why my voice is badder now..? I haven't smoked now for over 1,5 months except sometimes when I have been drinking, but not much.[/QUOTE]
Well of course. And alcohol is a diuretic which will dry your cords out a bit. You also want to avoid caffeine. Now of course youre not gonna get nodes from simply having a cup of coffee but it is good to know so you can practice some relative moderation. You should also really look into proper food mixing as well because this will greatly affect your mucus production. I have a few words about it in the mucus section of the Voicehelp hotline if you havent been there.

[QUOTE=Merkaba]yet you want others to be bothered to repeat it all?[/QUOTE]
yes, because people already know what i want to know, thy don't need to read 30 pages to find out what they already know

Is there any sort of indicator that I am over working it because I have only just started trying to sing and I have a very weak voice and I’m not sure how far I should be pushing it?

[QUOTE=jonnyward]yes, because people already know what i want to know, thy don't need to read 30 pages to find out what they already know[/QUOTE]
Its not that, its just that why would anyone say that. I post questions like that all the time on other forums and I'm always sure to include a clause of such: " Sorry I know its been asked a million times but blah blah...???.... but I'll still be reading around the forum though."

See reply below
[QUOTE=imnotapunk]Is there any sort of indicator that I am over working it because I have only just started trying to sing and I have a very weak voice and I’m not sure how far I should be pushing it?[/QUOTE]You never want pain ever before , during or after singing or screaming, and you never want to get hoarse. If you get hoarse your cords are swollen. Over time you should build up more and more, dont try to do too much all at once. If youre hoarse you don't want to sing, at least not with much push at all.

I would suggest both of you guys look around the [URL="http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219911"]voicehelp hotline. [/URL]

I have a breathing while recording question. When I sing, I breath normally and when I do it over a PA you can hardly hear the breathing through the singing. However, when I filter that through the my four track the breathing is out there and really obvious. Is there a technique I can use to cut down on breathing volume or on building bigger lungs? Singing punk music by the way.

Whats falsetto?

[QUOTE=Merkaba]Well of course. And alcohol is a diuretic which will dry your cords out a bit. You also want to avoid caffeine. Now of course youre not gonna get nodes from simply having a cup of coffee but it is good to know so you can practice some relative moderation. You should also really look into proper food mixing as well because this will greatly affect your mucus production. I have a few words about it in the mucus section of the Voicehelp hotline if you havent been there.[/QUOTE]
Okay. I'll go check that thread and thanks! :)

[QUOTE=slickathenyou]I have a breathing while recording question. When I sing, I breath normally and when I do it over a PA you can hardly hear the breathing through the singing. However, when I filter that through the my four track the breathing is out there and really obvious. Is there a technique I can use to cut down on breathing volume or on building bigger lungs? Singing punk music by the way.[/QUOTE]
If youre tense when youre singing you larynx may be partially responsible for this as its in the way. Be sure to relax and breathe in through the mouth for the most part when doing faster parts. Be sure to get a good breath before you do a line. If you've got the time you just breathe in slower through the nose. Other than that just make sure your throat is the cause for it. You could practice a bit. Then, it could be your recording levels which I know way less about. Be sure youre not using too much gain, if you have a multilevel eq try that.

[QUOTE=imnotapunk]Whats falsetto?[/QUOTE]
Think BeeGees. Or the light airy voice when a male tries to sing like a girl.

Ive read most of the vioce help hotline but im having trouble getting my head around alot of it. Im finding it hard to tell if i am singing from my gut or if im just pushing out my stomach alot. Also with rasp, am i i suppost to position my throat or keep it still.

[QUOTE=imnotapunk]Ive read most of the vioce help hotline but im having trouble getting my head around alot of it. Im finding it hard to tell if i am singing from my gut or if im just pushing out my stomach alot. Also with rasp, am i i suppost to position my throat or keep it still.[/QUOTE]You dont want to squeeze your abs...but you cant sing at all without coming from the diaphragm, or breathe at all for that matter, its just that you want to maximize the diaphrgam's work. You can't do a 10 second motorboat/lip trill without doing this. This is why i stress those above alot of other exercises. So do those on all pitches.

Dont think much about the throat. Again, do a normal note and slowly add the "annnk" wrong answer sound. You dont want to squeeze to get this. It should be a minimal feeling, without having to add extra push. Keep the note behind it.

hey guys...uhh, i pretty much suck at singing...and i'm about the only option my band has for a singer right now, so i need some big time help. we really want some vocals like rise against or aiden, but that's like impossible because im such a terrible singer. its really hard for me to describe how much i suck, so i'll post one of our songs.

here's us:
[url]www.myspace.com/faultytheband[/url]

and here's what we want:
[url]www.riseagainst.com[/url]
[url]www.aiden.org[/url]

any and all help is ****ing greatly appreciated. you have no idea how much. thanks all helpers and advisors.

good tip on getting that growl(not sure if this was posted yet sorry if it was:thumb:) my lead singer for my band drank honey before our gig to get that raspy tone.

[QUOTE=slpntrx5]hey guys...uhh, i pretty much suck at singing...and i'm about the only option my band has for a singer right now, so i need some big time help. we really want some vocals like rise against or aiden, but that's like impossible because im such a terrible singer. its really hard for me to describe how much i suck, so i'll post one of our songs.

here's us:
[url]www.myspace.com/faultytheband[/url]

and here's what we want:
[url]www.riseagainst.com[/url]
[url]www.aiden.org[/url]

any and all help is ****ing greatly appreciated. you have no idea how much. thanks all helpers and advisors.[/QUOTE]
You have no diaphragm support. Go here and read at least the "coming from the gut" thread.

[QUOTE=(H@mm3R-0f-Th3-G0D$)]good tip on getting that growl(not sure if this was posted yet sorry if it was:thumb:) my lead singer for my band drank honey before our gig to get that raspy tone.[/QUOTE]
Yet I still can't find anyone that can tell me how swallowing anything and digesting it helps with rasp. :rolleyes: It doesnt. If he can growl he probably can do it without honey. As a matter of fact I know he can. NOthing you swallow touches your cords. Thats called choking. plus who wants to rely on honey or this or that before you do a show. What if its gone or you don't have anymore.

Hello. I was wondering exactly how can I use falsetto properly? I guess what I mean is, how do I get it to sound less lifeless and more powerful. More resonance, as I read earlier in this thread. Also, is falsetto supposed to come from the gut as well, and if it does, how can I do that. When I go into falsetto now, I can feel it a lot in my throat, and I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it right. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Forlorn Hope]Hello. I was wondering exactly how can I use falsetto properly? I guess what I mean is, how do I get it to sound less lifeless and more powerful. More resonance, as I read earlier in this thread. Also, is falsetto supposed to come from the gut as well, and if it does, how can I do that. When I go into falsetto now, I can feel it a lot in my throat, and I'm pretty sure I'm not doing it right. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Don't overthink the whole coming from the gut thing. You cant breathe at all without the diaphragm. Its just phrased that way so that you concentrate more on that area than on your throat because if you concentrate more on your throat area youre prone to start squeezing things as you go. When if you dont think about it at all your cords will usually do what they need to do and the larynx as well. If you open up and relax then your pressure has to come from the diaphragm.

Its hard to talk about resonance over the net. I ususally say try to sing a light falsetto and normal note at the same time. Why not post a sample.

ok to practice singing i took one singing lesson and he gave me some breathing stuff, probally go to more soon, but ive been matching notes with my voice that i play on keyboard, and i can do that ok but when i stop playing the notes on the keyboard to see what it sounds like without it, the notes not 100 percent clear, and a little shaky, its not vibrato thought, just not staying clear, will this fix itself after time??, or is there an exercise i should do to keep it clear??

can anyone tell me what's the technique behind cookie monster vocals?
Basically how to do it.

any link will help.

[QUOTE=heavy metal kid]can anyone tell me what's the technique behind cookie monster vocals?
Basically how to do it.

any link will help.[/QUOTE]

wtf r u talking about? like a death metal voice?

o btw ive got a delema for u guys

in my band im the screamer but i cant sing clean vocals, what would u recommend i do?