[QUOTE=ridethelightning]i hear davincies inquest is good[/QUOTE]

:lol: canadian tv makes my laugh

lowsound

[QUOTE=Noushi]What kind of books do you usually read? I don't read that much anymore, mostly due to lack of new books, but I could probably throw you a couple suggestions.[/QUOTE]

I'll read anything thats the slightest bit interesting...

I really liked books like johnny got his gun, brave new world, lord of the flies, and I'm actually trying to read lord of the rings(some of the singing is hard to stomach)...

woops

davinci code*

for LOTR once you get passed the first book its smoth sailing. also anything by tom clancy is good. my fav is rainbow 6 verw good read.

lowsound

[QUOTE=thelowsoundofbass]i asked him to come join.

lowsound[/QUOTE]

EGGcellent. :D

Now I'll have reading material.

[QUOTE=thelowsoundofbass]very true, but since a mojority of the people that are elected are religous and since the differance between most of these "christians" is minute, it is only true that their beliefs influance what laws are passed. if you don't like it you don't have to vote for that person and thats as much as you can really do, i don't like that one bit, but its just the way that things work.[/QUOTE]

Uh, no, these difference are not minute.

I believe abortion should be legal. There are lots of conservative Christians who want it outlawed. If abortion were outlawed it would have a huge, negative impact on the country, as we plunge back into an age of back-alley abortions, more sexual problems. I imagine the infant mortality rate would rise, because women who would've had an abortion would give birth only to leave the baby to die.

Gay rights is a huge issue to gay people. There are plenty of conservative Christians who think they're all already destined for hell, and they are second class citizens. If they were denied rights because of their orientation, well, the slippery slope doesn't look pretty after that.

Don't vote for the person? Yes, that's a good way to voice my opinion, but my point is that politicians should not be allowed to campaign based on that sort of thing. If the neo-con Christian goes out and tells all the Bible-beating southerners and midwesterners what they want to hear, they won't even consider anything else he's doing, and they'll vote for him. People with strong convictions often, though not always, follow pretty blindly. If they think you're doing something Godly, they could give a crap less what else you do. I'm not like that. I want my elected officials to help run the state (the state being the broader State, not my specific state) and provide for its people. Welfare, protection, etc. We have the liberty to worship as we will, and politicians should respect that and shut the hell up when it comes to trying to mix legislation with religion

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Uh, no, these difference are not minute.

I believe abortion should be legal. There are lots of conservative Christians who want it outlawed. If abortion were outlawed it would have a huge, negative impact on the country, as we plunge back into an age of back-alley abortions, more sexual problems. I imagine the infant mortality rate would rise, because women who would've had an abortion would give birth only to leave the baby to die.[/quote]
i wouldn't mind seeing abortion made illage once again, tho i know that it wont happen. why? i believe that life starts are conception. i don't want to be blunt but the people that get pregnent are mostly (not counting rape in this) at fault for what has happened to them. its there choice to go out and have sex, they should realise that there could be consicquenses to this. if they just carry out the baby yo full term and give it up for adoption, that benifits the child and it benifits a family that might not be able to have children of their own.

[quote]

Gay rights is a huge issue to gay people. There are plenty of conservative Christians who think they're all already destined for hell, and they are second class citizens. If they were denied rights because of their orientation, well, the slippery slope doesn't look pretty after that.[/quote]

if you read my previous posts regarding this, you will see that the only problem that i have with it is the name marrage. and if these so called "christians" really believed the bible they would see the same thing.

[quote]

Don't vote for the person? Yes, that's a good way to voice my opinion, but my point is that politicians should not be allowed to campaign based on that sort of thing. If the neo-con Christian goes out and tells all the Bible-beating southerners and midwesterners what they want to hear, they won't even consider anything else he's doing, and they'll vote for him. People with strong convictions often, though not always, follow pretty blindly. If they think you're doing something Godly, they could give a crap less what else you do. I'm not like that. I want my elected officials to help run the state (the state being the broader State, not my specific state) and provide for its people. Welfare, protection, etc. We have the liberty to worship as we will, and politicians should respect that and shut the hell up when it comes to trying to mix legislation with religion[/QUOTE]

good point except that religion in a socety where you have the freedom to pratices religion is always going to get mixed into politics no matter how hard you try to take it out.

lowsound

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Uh, no, these difference are not minute.

I believe abortion should be legal. There are lots of conservative Christians who want it outlawed. If abortion were outlawed it would have a huge, negative impact on the country, as we plunge back into an age of back-alley abortions, more sexual problems. I imagine the infant mortality rate would rise, because women who would've had an abortion would give birth only to leave the baby to die.

Gay rights is a huge issue to gay people. There are plenty of conservative Christians who think they're all already destined for hell, and they are second class citizens. If they were denied rights because of their orientation, well, the slippery slope doesn't look pretty after that.

Don't vote for the person? Yes, that's a good way to voice my opinion, but my point is that politicians should not be allowed to campaign based on that sort of thing. If the neo-con Christian goes out and tells all the Bible-beating southerners and midwesterners what they want to hear, they won't even consider anything else he's doing, and they'll vote for him. People with strong convictions often, though not always, follow pretty blindly. If they think you're doing something Godly, they could give a crap less what else you do. I'm not like that. I want my elected officials to help run the state (the state being the broader State, not my specific state) and provide for its people. Welfare, protection, etc. We have the liberty to worship as we will, and politicians should respect that and shut the hell up when it comes to trying to mix legislation with religion[/QUOTE]


Whoa! That's exactly waht I always tell people! They're always surprised when I say I'm Christian, "But...you aren't a bible thumper! You don't try and shove your morality on us...you're....so....liberal!"

I believe utterly in the separation of church and state.

[QUOTE=thelowsoundofbass]i wouldn't mind seeing abortion made illage once again, tho i know that it wont happen. why? i believe that life starts are conception. i don't want to be blunt but the people that get pregnent are mostly (not counting rape in this) at fault for what has happened to them. its there choice to go out and have sex, they should realise that there could be consicquenses to this. if they just carry out the baby yo full term and give it up for adoption, that benifits the child and it benifits a family that might not be able to have children of their own.


lowsound[/QUOTE]

Gonna have to disagree with you here. I personally would never get an abortion. I would carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. However, I think the right to choice is imperative to what our society stands for. Whether or not you acknowledge it, our government is full of men. I don't want some old white dude legislating what I can or can't do with my body. It's not his business, it's an invasion of the right to privacy, and it's downright unconstitutional. I can believe whatever I want about abortion, but fundamentally it's the right to choose that I support.

[QUOTE=super deluxe]Whoa! That's exactly waht I always tell people! They're always surprised when I say I'm Christian, "But...you aren't a bible thumper! You don't try and shove your morality on us...you're....so....liberal!"

I believe utterly in the separation of church and state.[/QUOTE]

look at my post above yours.

lowsound

We should just kill everyone

[QUOTE=thelowsoundofbass]

good point except that religion in a socety where you have the freedom to pratices religion is always going to get mixed into politics no matter how hard you try to take it out.

lowsound[/QUOTE]

So? That's like worrying that a politician with stock in oil companies is going to drag the country into war! What's worse?

Every politician's personal views and practices are going to be part of their policy making. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't still try to separate it!

[QUOTE=super deluxe]Gonna have to disagree with you here. I personally would never get an abortion. I would carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption. However, I think the right to choice is imperative to what our society stands for. Whether or not you acknowledge it, our government is full of men. I don't want some old white dude legislating what I can or can't do with my body. It's not his business, it's an invasion of the right to privacy, and it's downright unconstitutional. I can believe whatever I want about abortion, but fundamentally it's the right to choose that I support.[/QUOTE]

IMO if you choose to have sex, you have to be ready to deal with the consiquesces and one of those can be pregnancy, but it can also be STDs. i think that there should be proper education on things like that and also what the lasting effects that an abortions can have on a woman. both physically and emotoinally

lowsound

[QUOTE=thelowsoundofbass]i wouldn't mind seeing abortion made illage once again, tho i know that it wont happen. why? i believe that life starts are conception. i don't want to be blunt but the people that get pregnent are mostly (not counting rape in this) at fault for what has happened to them. its there choice to go out and have sex, they should realise that there could be consicquenses to this. if they just carry out the baby yo full term and give it up for adoption, that benifits the child and it benifits a family that might not be able to have children of their own.[/quote]

Here's another huge difference. I don't believe life begins at conception. It's just a bunch of cells. It is not a person, it doesn't have a soul yet. There's nothing to prove or disprove it either. So, that's a huge difference there.

[quote]if you read my previous posts regarding this, you will see that the only problem that i have with it is the name marrage. and if these so called "christians" really believed the bible they would see the same thing.[/quote]

I saw that, and that's great. But there are plenty of other Christians who don't agree with you and I. This is the crux of my point

[quote]good point except that religion in a socety where you have the freedom to pratices religion is always going to get mixed into politics no matter how hard you try to take it out.

lowsound[/QUOTE]

I didn't say take it out, but people should make a conscious effort to NOT include their personal beliefs when they legislate.

[quote=SD]Whoa! That's exactly waht I always tell people! They're always surprised when I say I'm Christian, "But...you aren't a bible thumper! You don't try and shove your morality on us...you're....so....liberal!"

I believe utterly in the separation of church and state.[/quote]

I wish there were more like us. Rep +

[QUOTE=coddingtown]We should just kill everyone[/QUOTE]

With grape Kool-Aid, I hope!

is the bible talk over yet?

[QUOTE=super deluxe]So? That's like worrying that a politician with stock in oil companies is going to drag the country into war! What's worse?

Every politician's personal views and practices are going to be part of their policy making. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't still try to separate it![/QUOTE]

why should we try and sepperate it when we know that it wont ever happen? why not put that effort into africa and the major disastors that are happening there? or solving the energy crises

lowsound

[QUOTE=The JoZ]Here's another huge difference. I don't believe life begins at conception. It's just a bunch of cells. It is not a person, it doesn't have a soul yet. There's nothing to prove or disprove it either. So, that's a huge difference there.[/quote] this again comes down to belief, like you said everyones is different[quote]

[quote]if you read my previous posts regarding this, you will see that the only problem that i have with it is the name marrage. and if these so called "christians" really believed the bible they would see the same thing.[/quote]

I saw that, and that's great. But there are plenty of other Christians who don't agree with you and I. This is the crux of my point
[/quote] can't come up with anything for that[quote]


I didn't say take it out, but people should make a conscious effort to NOT include their personal beliefs when they legislate.


[/QUOTE]

why when we know that it is fruitless?

lowsound

[QUOTE=thelowsoundofbass]why should we try and sepperate it when we know that it wont ever happen? why not put that effort into africa and the major disastors that are happening there? or solving the energy crises

lowsound[/QUOTE]

Oh, my dear!

I shall let you in on a secret: The United States of America does not care about Africa. The United States of America does not care about starving people in Bangladesh. The United States of America cares about one thing: Survival. Of itself. That means maintaining hegemony at all costs. There is no incentive to go help other countries. Name me one instance of "charity", and I'll show you exactly the benefit it brings back.


*sigh*

I feel old and cynical today.

[QUOTE=super deluxe]Oh, my dear!

I shall let you in on a secret: The United States of America does not care about Africa. The United States of America does not care about starving people in Bangladesh. The United States of America cares about one thing: Survival. Of itself. That means maintaining hegemony at all costs. There is no incentive to go help other countries. Name me one instance of "charity", and I'll show you exactly the benefit it brings back.


*sigh*

I feel old and cynical today.[/QUOTE]

i know this, but its what should happen.

lowsound

for those of you not on the mars volta mailing list , the new video!
[url]http://www.mtv.com/music/video/premiere/the_mars_volta/index.jhtml[/url]

[QUOTE=janyeno]I'll read anything thats the slightest bit interesting...

I really liked books like johnny got his gun, brave new world, lord of the flies, and I'm actually trying to read lord of the rings(some of the singing is hard to stomach)...[/QUOTE]

I never once read the songs in LoTR... I hate them.

Anyway, some books.

[URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684833395/102-6830476-7333706]Catch 22[/URL], Joseph Heller

[URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440180295/qid=1107312978/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-6830476-7333706]Slaughterhouse Five[/URL], Kurt Vonnegut (Actually just about anything by Vonnegut is good, but this one is famous(er))

[URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451524934/ref=pd_sim_b_4/102-6830476-7333706?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance]1984[/URL] , George Orwell (Yeah, I know, everyone's heard of it, but it's seriously a good read. So is Animal Farm, another Orwell novel.)

You might also want to check out [URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=pd_sim_b_1/102-6830476-7333706?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=CHUCK%20PALAHNIUK]Chuck Palahniuk[/URL] who's the guy who wrote Fight Club. I haven't read anything else by him, but he gets good reviews.

[QUOTE=thelowsoundofbass]i know this, but its what should happen.

lowsound[/QUOTE]

Is/Ought Fallacy.

Just because something SHOULD be a certain way doesn't mean it's a valid reason for justifying it.

[quote]this again comes down to belief, like you said everyones is different[/quote]

And as stated, that's the crux of the argument. Because everyone's beliefs are different, we cannot legislate based on personal spiritual or religious beliefs, because that's not what this country stands for. We have freedom from being forced into them, or having them forced upon us by the government. Legislating abortion as illegal, for example, because the Bible says so or because someone thinks it is morally wrong, would be a violation of those rights.

[quote]why when we know that it is fruitless?[/quote]

Maybe my point here has been misunderstood. Some politicans are always going to be influenced by their beliefs. That's fine, there's nothing I can do to stop that, and it shouldn't be stopped. But when Bush wants to go around talking about God this, and God that...or when people want to make references to the Bible and say "We ought to make a law against ____, because it's in the Bible" or whatever. That's what I don't want, and that's what we shouldn't have.

Guys, I have a real stupid question...

A friend of mine wants me to play this habbo game thing with her online.

I think it eats loads of douche, but she's a good friend and is bored

Should I
a) Laugh really hard, and go play bass
b) play grudgingly and give it up in 5 minutes,
or c) laugh really hard and argue with her?

Most creative answer wins.... hm... nothing.

[QUOTE=Noushi]I never once read the songs in LoTR... I hate them.

Anyway, some books.

[URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684833395/102-6830476-7333706]Catch 22[/URL], Joseph Heller

[URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440180295/qid=1107312978/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-6830476-7333706]Slaughterhouse Five[/URL], Kurt Vonnegut (Actually just about anything by Vonnegut is good, but this one is famous(er))

[URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451524934/ref=pd_sim_b_4/102-6830476-7333706?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance]1984[/URL] , George Orwell (Yeah, I know, everyone's heard of it, but it's seriously a good read. So is Animal Farm, another Orwell novel.)

You might also want to check out [URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=pd_sim_b_1/102-6830476-7333706?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=CHUCK%20PALAHNIUK]Chuck Palahniuk[/URL] who's the guy who wrote Fight Club. I haven't read anything else by him, but he gets good reviews.[/QUOTE]
Animal farm kicks as[COLOR=White]s[/COLOR]

1984 also kicks [color=white]as[/color]s

my arm is rashed up, why , i dont know.

kicking as[COLOR=White]s[/COLOR] kicks as[COLOR=White]s[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Crapdragoon]my arm is rashed up, why , i dont know.[/QUOTE]

Chlamydiherpasyphalis?

[QUOTE=RJDBass]kicking as[COLOR=White]s[/COLOR] kicks as[COLOR=White]s[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

True.

I think I jinxed myself with the 'best answer wins nothing' thing. :lol: